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nunya
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
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1 recommendation

reply to Chinabound

Re: Before I Rip This MF'ing Wire Out

It sounds as if your "seller" is a complete buffoon.
GFCI breakers are quite common. I can't tell from the photo whether this is a Square D panel, or the dreaded Federal Pacific.
If it's FPE, it should be replaced (the entire panel). FWIW, it looks like SQD to me.

The most likely scenario is the breaker is just doing it's job. There is a ground fault somewhere and it is tripping.

"Nuisance tripping" is mostly myth. It was term made up to explain any type of tripping that isn't immediately obvious to the troubleshooter. Does it occur? Yes. Is it common? No.
Most often, there is an actual "ground fault" somewhere on the circuit.
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If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.



Chinabound
Premium
join:2002-12-21
Antioch, IL
kudos:3

1 recommendation

Thank you, and everyone else who replied. I can't say whether or not the man we bought this house from is a clueless buffoon or not, but he had this house built along with his twin brother's house across the street back in 1977. How much of the work he actually did, or what he knows, I really have no idea. Perhaps he was saying new builds don't use GFCI breakers anymore, in favor of GFCI outlets?
The truth is, I'm the clueless buffoon.

Anyhow, Menard's had the exact "Square D" breaker (whew!) for $67. A little surprised with the price, I drove into town to a small electric store I've noticed for years, but never went inside... Carey Electric. They've been there since 1952. I walked in and showed the older gentleman the breaker, and he told me he had it. He said, "If you pay me with cash, $40, and that's a damn good price."
I explained everything to him, and he feels as most of you do. There is a ground fault somewhere, but he was happy to sell me the breaker anyway.

He will be here at 10:00 tomorrow morning, because replacing the breaker didn't work. It promptly tripped when I cut the main back on, and I know my limits. I called him back and he said he will be here in the morning.
There are no appliances ever plugged into the two outlets in the bathroom. Only two light(s) switches, and the exhaust fan, which I had unplugged during my troubleshooting.

Thanks, everyone - I'll post what the problem was after its resolved.



nunya
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join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12

Why would a guy from a supply house be coming to fix your problem? That is scary to me.
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If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.



John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:8

1 recommendation

said by nunya:

Why would a guy from a supply house be coming to fix your problem? That is scary to me.

$40 -cash- bucks...!


ITICharlie1
Premium
join:2003-01-22
St. Louis MO

Is this them?

»www.manta.com/c/mmgf5bv/carey-ge···ctric-co
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robbin
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join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to nunya

said by nunya:

Why would a guy from a supply house be coming to fix your problem? That is scary to me.

Who said he went to a supply house?


nunya
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I drove into town to a small electric store I've noticed for years, but never went inside... Carey Electric.


You just here to argue semantics?
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If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.

robbin
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join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1

1 recommendation

Not at all. Grew up in a small town and moved to a big one. Have dealt with businesses in both that were smaller Mom and Pop type places who would have sold something like this if you walked in the door. They would also have offered to send someone out if you had a problem doing it yourself.

In another tread you lament the passage of a bygone era (and the products produced) and in this one you apparently condemn the same people who were part of it (in your capacity). Take your pick, straddle the fence, but don't take both sides of it.



nunya
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O Fallon, MO
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Your response makes no sense whatsoever. I don't even know how to reply. How does this have anything to do with the quality of products?
I'm saying it's very odd for someone to come from a STORE to perform a skilled trade. I'd be very leery of letting them into my home. Are they qualified? Licensed? Bonded? INSURED? What happens if they get hurt?
I think I'd check that out first.
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.


robbin
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join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
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Same bygone era.

Who said it was a "STORE" and not the front for their electrical business. Yes, they have parts and they will help you, but they will also send someone out.

Why are you so negative about everything?



nunya
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O Fallon, MO
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The OP said it was a store. What's so negative about warning someone that they could putting their property or finances in danger? I'd say that's positive, if anything.
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.


robbin
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join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1

1 recommendation

Yes, store of a bygone era. Been there since 1952 -- seriously, you think they are going to be a problem that needs to be warned about?



Lurch77
Premium
join:2001-11-22
Oconto, WI
kudos:4

1 recommendation

reply to nunya

Electrical Service & Supply is a well qualified electrical contractor here in my hometown. You can also walk into their shop and buy things. I don't think that is all that uncommon.



Chinabound
Premium
join:2002-12-21
Antioch, IL
kudos:3

5 recommendations

reply to robbin

said by robbin:

Yes, store of a bygone era. Been there since 1952 -- seriously, you think they are going to be a problem that needs to be warned about?

It's ok. While I will acknowledge his expertise in the field, I realized long ago that expertise does not necessarily equate to common sense. Nunya doesn't know me at all, but it is a shame that most take the cynical approach to everything rather than extending the benefit of the doubt. In all fairness, though, I tried to keep my posts succinct so as not to annoy the tl;dr crowd, which limits the amount of information he had to go with.

I have a wife and an eleven year old daughter, two Border Collies and a 10 acre piece of property, Nunya. The house is 2500 square feet, and there are two heated outbuildings (30x50, 30x40). We bought it three years ago next month. We will have it paid off after three or four more years. I'm almost 54 years old, and I have worked and saved for a place like this all of my adult life. I'm not going risk what I've worked for by taking any shortcuts. As I said earlier, I know my limits, and if I am going to call in a professional, you can bet your ass I'm going to make sure he's qualified to work on my pad.

Now then, allow me a moment to come down from this particularly high horse, and I will explain what the problem was. I was able to figure it out this morning, thanks to the informative explanations provided me here.



When I awoke this morning, it occurred to me there are some outside outlets on this house. I have been using the one outside my front door to light up an artificial Christmas tree I set up down at the end of our dead end street, about 450 feet away from the house. I remembered these are not GFCI outlets out there, so I ran to the inside wall switch and turned the tree on. It did not light up, which told me this outlet is on the same circuit as the bathroom breaker is! I went outside, unplugged the cord and flew down to the basement and turned the breaker on. It did not trip, and the lights and fan in the bathroom worked once again.
I had to wait for a little more daylight, but I knew there had to be a problem somewhere along the 450 feet worth of cords.
I looked out a front window towards the tree after a little more daylight, and saw this:


Zooming in a bit, I noticed the cord had been moved, even though no one had walked across the front yard for a few days:


Threw on my shoes and a coat, and found this:


These will give you an idea of the tree, the cord length out to it, and where it sits at the end of my road.



There is a lot of wildlife around here, so it's pretty obvious something chewed threw the cord. It was something small, however, because there are no obvious footprints. It was probably a damn squirrel that hasn't been killed by one of my dogs yet.

Red Green, yes, that's them. Here's a picture of their store front:


I took a ride into town to meet Mr. Gelden again. I explained everything and showed him these pictures in my camera. He then gave me a little information on his background.
He went to work for Carey Electric back in the late 1950s. When Mr. Carey died, he bought the business and has been running it with his wife since 1982. They have a 4 man crew, and do any kind of electrical work. He appears to be close to 70 years old, and his wife hinted that she wants to retire soon. As you can see from the picture, the signs out front have been there since before 1982.

Thanks, everyone. I really appreciate the help.


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to robbin

said by robbin:

Yes, store of a bygone era. Been there since 1952 -- seriously, you think they are going to be a problem that needs to be warned about?

Yup, my cableco is Service Electric. They used to be an appliance store selling GE TVs until John Walson invented Cable TV.


leibold
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join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
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reply to Chinabound

You must have some killer rodents to chew all the way through the cord like that.

I have one heavy duty outdoor extension cord that was attacked by animals. Close inspection of the cord found that for almost the entire unwound length of the cord there were thousands of fine punctures in the insulation (looked more like needle punctures then bite marks). I don't know what animal did that (squirrels and feral cats are common in my backyard) but whoever did it was very thorough. There are about 100 punctures in a one inch length of the cord and it seemed that this rate was the same for about 20 feet of it (most of the cord that was wound into a coil had been left alone). From a distance the cord looks fine, only up close you can see that the insulation has become very porous.
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EGeezer
zichrona livracha
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Midwest
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said by leibold:

... Close inspection of the cord found that for almost the entire unwound length of the cord there were thousands of fine punctures in the insulation (looked more like needle punctures then bite marks). ... that the insulation has become very porous.

I've seen lightning do that to wiring - no massive charring or melting, just lots of tiny porous holes in the insulation.
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