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elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
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join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
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reply to TOPDAWG

Re: Student loans why don't some people pay them back?

said by TOPDAWG:

well that is fine as you're paying them but you got some that simply stop paying them all together. I don't get it I see as it I was given the money so I got to give it back I mean it's not mine.

Education should not cost 37K (in the case of dragonfly). Education , like in many European countries, should be "free" all the way into post secondary.

The cost of providing such an education is peanuts considering what a well educated person can bring to the workforce in their lifetime.

Now at the same time I would mandate you maintain a certain GPA level and not take courses that results in a basket weaving doctorate.
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......


J E F F
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
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join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON
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·Rogers Portable ..
What's wrong with basket weaving?

Anyway, I work with a girl, I asked her the other day about her student loans, they were paid off a month before finishing school.

She's going to make a good wife to some guy some day.
--
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Albert Einstein

DanteX

join:2010-09-09
kudos:1
She wasn't from the other side of the pacific was she? seems like these people are loaded and can pay off these loans instantly


TOPDAWG
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Calgary, AB
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·TekSavvy DSL
reply to elwoodblues
well if you do that then the education is not worth anything. The idea of education being a right is fine and all but you got to tie a money value to it. I mean somebody has got to pay for the school and the over paid staff that fulls them as the government already helps with that stuff it would led to insane raises in taxes.

Exp if I you got to school yeah you should make more then the guy who dropped out of high school. School is pretty cheap in Canada anyway. I also find some people go to University and pay far more then they would had they just went to college and the college still would have got them the job they wanted.

I kind of think schools should have classes on debt and the like. I also think the school system is broke as hell. I mean I went to college and had to pay for classes that did not even help me in my chosen career as you had to take 4 gen eds to finish your diploma.


J E F F
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
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join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON
kudos:1
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·Rogers Portable ..
reply to DanteX
said by DanteX:

She wasn't from the other side of the pacific was she? seems like these people are loaded and can pay off these loans instantly

No...she's from a hick village outside this area. Strictly middle class family.
--
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Albert Einstein


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
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reply to TOPDAWG
said by TOPDAWG:

well if you do that then the education is not worth anything. The idea of education being a right is fine and all but you got to tie a money value to it.chosen career as you had to take 4 gen eds to finish your diploma.

How does educating the masses for free make it worthless?
By your analogy, grade school and High school are a waste of time since it's "free".

I mean somebody has got to pay for the school and the over paid staff that fulls them as the government already helps with that stuff it would led to insane raises in taxes.

To bring out my well worn tag line.. you tax cuts at work.

I would argue that a well educated person would return infinitely more money then the money spent on educating them for free.

Exp if I you got to school yeah you should make more then the guy who dropped out of high school. School is pretty cheap in Canada anyway. I also find some people go to University and pay far more then they would had they just went to college and the college still would have got them the job they wanted.

Look I'm not saying that the high school drop out(and how would they get into post secondary if they dropped out in the first place ). There are plenty of folks who are more suited to working with their hands (so to speak0 then being educated on how to be a paralegal.

--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......


TOPDAWG
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well it's simple if a skill becomes common cause people get free school then that skill is no longer as rare and is not worth as much.

Now I do agree with the idea you're saying as I think in the states they could use your idea. The government will be more then happy to give people welfare money but won't give them money to go to school. To me that makes no damn sense. It's like people will reward those who do dumb shit but not those who want to fix their lives and become successful. Now you can go to trade college and the government will pay for it but it's not pushed as much as it should be.

Same goes for when people say if they raised min wage it would help people. it won't as company's then will make their products cost more. Now by the time all company's do that people may even be worse off then they were before.

PS. I am a high school drop out I just got my GED as it was faster and the school I went too was shit.


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
said by TOPDAWG:

well it's simple if a skill becomes common cause people get free school then that skill is no longer as rare and is not worth as much.

i disagree...free (or close to it) post secondary education is quite common in many European countries and they seem to do quite well with that type of system (the Northern European nations anyway, as they have work ethics, not like the lazy South).
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
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reply to TOPDAWG
Wow, did you really say that?

It's about who you are, not how you are educated. I frequently joke I'm not my father's son. He was a handy bastard, it's not in me. I understand it all, I know how to do it all, but it just doesn't translate to my hands.

So saying that if everyone goes to school and the skill becomes worthless is an asinine statement. For example, I don't have the aptitude to become an architect, and I'm sure the same goes for many here.

So because education is "free" does that we're going to have a glut of architects and their skills then are worthless? I would argue because education is not free, we may have a shortage of architects, because people who have the aptitude to become one, can't afford to go to school.
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
said by elwoodblues:

So because education is "free" does that we're going to have a glut of architects and their skills then are worthless? I would argue because education is not free, we may have a shortage of architects, because people who have the aptitude to become one, can't afford to go to school.

i agree...there are likely scenarios where there could be some people that would just seem to "fit" into programs they are really interested in, but can't do because of cost.
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


nonBell

@steadfastdns.net
reply to elwoodblues
said by elwoodblues:

said by TOPDAWG:

well that is fine as you're paying them but you got some that simply stop paying them all together. I don't get it I see as it I was given the money so I got to give it back I mean it's not mine.

Education should not cost 37K (in the case of dragonfly). Education , like in many European countries, should be "free" all the way into post secondary.

The cost of providing such an education is peanuts considering what a well educated person can bring to the workforce in their lifetime.

Now at the same time I would mandate you maintain a certain GPA level and not take courses that results in a basket weaving doctorate.

Very often I hear a number quoted for a student loan, but I have not seen any breakdown on how much was that was from tuition and how much was that was for room and board, and other expenses. So, comparing 37K with "free" is meaningless as I imagine a portion of that 37K is living expenses that European students have to pay as well, possibly higher even.

What I know is that I often see many students with their Macbook Pro sipping coffee at starbucks/second cup. How many of these are using their student loan I don't know, but I would say there must be some. They could have reduced their debt load if they decide they can use a cheaper Macbook (rather than pro, or god forbids a Dell), or drink less expensive beverages. I won't even go into those with big phone bills etc.


pnjunction
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Toronto, ON
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reply to dirtyjeffer
said by dirtyjeffer:

said by elwoodblues:

So because education is "free" does that we're going to have a glut of architects and their skills then are worthless? I would argue because education is not free, we may have a shortage of architects, because people who have the aptitude to become one, can't afford to go to school.

i agree...there are likely scenarios where there could be some people that would just seem to "fit" into programs they are really interested in, but can't do because of cost.

I think it's very possible to have a glut of certain degrees if they are free. Heck even with the burden of huge loans many people get degrees with low career value in the US, then slave away the stereotypical starbucks job to pay them back over a lifetime.

I do support most education being free, but there needs to be limits and requirements that aren't there in the system right now. With some constraints, a fully paid system could actually be more efficient at providing economic value. Right now we fork over 50-70% of the money required but have basically no input into how it is used. Students and universities want to crank out tons of liberal arts degrees because they are easier? Go nuts. Medecine and engineering are hard? No worries.

The free systems in Europe don't operate so loosely AFAIK. Not only could you not keep your free ride in art history with a D average, but you may not even get into that if the demand on the student side is much higher than the demand on the career side. To me both of these make sense (requiring more performance and more value than we do now from the money taxpayers put in). If we're going to go 'free' the money has to come with more strings to make sure it is well spent, because paying for slackers to extend their carefree childhood into their 20s with easy free degrees is not a good use of money.


A Lurker
that's Ms Lurker btw
Premium
join:2007-10-27
Wellington N
reply to elwoodblues
said by elwoodblues:

Education should not cost 37K (in the case of dragonfly). Education , like in many European countries, should be "free" all the way into post secondary.

The problem with this is I agree with part of it. Tuition should be free, but what do you do about books, rent, food, etc.?

I went back to school a few years ago (done now) and was amazed at how many students admitted they got an excess of OSAP money. This paid for their vacations during break. They were also the ones that seemed to always be buying lunch and coffee, etc. I packed lunch, thermos of coffee, and such - however, I was completely paying my own way. Free money doesn't feel real to some (what percentage I don't know) and they don't really think about paying it back.

I was in a co-op program where most should have been able to pay their own way after working, but still seemed to be getting OSAP. My first time through college my parents covered my first 8 months and after that I worked breaks and/or co-op. It was wonderful as I did it without loans at all.

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
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join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
said by A Lurker:

I went back to school a few years ago (done now) and was amazed at how many students admitted they got an excess of OSAP money.

They are better off using the grant portion and living more economically and having someone invest the loan portion in a CD and pay off a portion of the debt when they graduate.

peterboro
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join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
reply to elwoodblues
said by elwoodblues:

There are plenty of folks who are more suited to working with their hands (so to speak0 then being educated on how to be a paralegal.

I get the impression that was aimed at me.


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
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said by peterboro:

said by elwoodblues:

There are plenty of folks who are more suited to working with their hands (so to speak0 then being educated on how to be a paralegal.

I get the impression that was aimed at me.

LOL Paranoid?
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......


nonBell

@steadfastdns.net
reply to peterboro
said by peterboro:

said by A Lurker:

I went back to school a few years ago (done now) and was amazed at how many students admitted they got an excess of OSAP money.

They are better off using the grant portion and living more economically and having someone invest the loan portion in a CD and pay off a portion of the debt when they graduate.

I did half of that while attending CEGEP/university - used the bursary section and don't even take out the loan portion and lived very economically (and worked 1 to 2 jobs on campus). The first two years I took out the loan and they were paid off within the first year after graduation.

If I knew more about investing back then, I would have taken the loan (interest free until graduation) and buy some blue chip stock.