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TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Midland, ON
kudos:3
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to elwoodblues

Re: Student loans why don't some people pay them back?

well if you do that then the education is not worth anything. The idea of education being a right is fine and all but you got to tie a money value to it. I mean somebody has got to pay for the school and the over paid staff that fulls them as the government already helps with that stuff it would led to insane raises in taxes.

Exp if I you got to school yeah you should make more then the guy who dropped out of high school. School is pretty cheap in Canada anyway. I also find some people go to University and pay far more then they would had they just went to college and the college still would have got them the job they wanted.

I kind of think schools should have classes on debt and the like. I also think the school system is broke as hell. I mean I went to college and had to pay for classes that did not even help me in my chosen career as you had to take 4 gen eds to finish your diploma.



elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2

said by TOPDAWG:

well if you do that then the education is not worth anything. The idea of education being a right is fine and all but you got to tie a money value to it.chosen career as you had to take 4 gen eds to finish your diploma.

How does educating the masses for free make it worthless?
By your analogy, grade school and High school are a waste of time since it's "free".

I mean somebody has got to pay for the school and the over paid staff that fulls them as the government already helps with that stuff it would led to insane raises in taxes.

To bring out my well worn tag line.. you tax cuts at work.

I would argue that a well educated person would return infinitely more money then the money spent on educating them for free.

Exp if I you got to school yeah you should make more then the guy who dropped out of high school. School is pretty cheap in Canada anyway. I also find some people go to University and pay far more then they would had they just went to college and the college still would have got them the job they wanted.

Look I'm not saying that the high school drop out(and how would they get into post secondary if they dropped out in the first place ). There are plenty of folks who are more suited to working with their hands (so to speak0 then being educated on how to be a paralegal.

--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......


TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Midland, ON
kudos:3
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

well it's simple if a skill becomes common cause people get free school then that skill is no longer as rare and is not worth as much.

Now I do agree with the idea you're saying as I think in the states they could use your idea. The government will be more then happy to give people welfare money but won't give them money to go to school. To me that makes no damn sense. It's like people will reward those who do dumb shit but not those who want to fix their lives and become successful. Now you can go to trade college and the government will pay for it but it's not pushed as much as it should be.

Same goes for when people say if they raised min wage it would help people. it won't as company's then will make their products cost more. Now by the time all company's do that people may even be worse off then they were before.

PS. I am a high school drop out I just got my GED as it was faster and the school I went too was shit.



dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON

said by TOPDAWG:

well it's simple if a skill becomes common cause people get free school then that skill is no longer as rare and is not worth as much.

i disagree...free (or close to it) post secondary education is quite common in many European countries and they seem to do quite well with that type of system (the Northern European nations anyway, as they have work ethics, not like the lazy South).
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
reply to TOPDAWG

Wow, did you really say that?

It's about who you are, not how you are educated. I frequently joke I'm not my father's son. He was a handy bastard, it's not in me. I understand it all, I know how to do it all, but it just doesn't translate to my hands.

So saying that if everyone goes to school and the skill becomes worthless is an asinine statement. For example, I don't have the aptitude to become an architect, and I'm sure the same goes for many here.

So because education is "free" does that we're going to have a glut of architects and their skills then are worthless? I would argue because education is not free, we may have a shortage of architects, because people who have the aptitude to become one, can't afford to go to school.
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......



dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON

said by elwoodblues:

So because education is "free" does that we're going to have a glut of architects and their skills then are worthless? I would argue because education is not free, we may have a shortage of architects, because people who have the aptitude to become one, can't afford to go to school.

i agree...there are likely scenarios where there could be some people that would just seem to "fit" into programs they are really interested in, but can't do because of cost.
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


pnjunction
Teksavvy Extreme
Premium
join:2008-01-24
Toronto, ON
kudos:1

said by dirtyjeffer:

said by elwoodblues:

So because education is "free" does that we're going to have a glut of architects and their skills then are worthless? I would argue because education is not free, we may have a shortage of architects, because people who have the aptitude to become one, can't afford to go to school.

i agree...there are likely scenarios where there could be some people that would just seem to "fit" into programs they are really interested in, but can't do because of cost.

I think it's very possible to have a glut of certain degrees if they are free. Heck even with the burden of huge loans many people get degrees with low career value in the US, then slave away the stereotypical starbucks job to pay them back over a lifetime.

I do support most education being free, but there needs to be limits and requirements that aren't there in the system right now. With some constraints, a fully paid system could actually be more efficient at providing economic value. Right now we fork over 50-70% of the money required but have basically no input into how it is used. Students and universities want to crank out tons of liberal arts degrees because they are easier? Go nuts. Medecine and engineering are hard? No worries.

The free systems in Europe don't operate so loosely AFAIK. Not only could you not keep your free ride in art history with a D average, but you may not even get into that if the demand on the student side is much higher than the demand on the career side. To me both of these make sense (requiring more performance and more value than we do now from the money taxpayers put in). If we're going to go 'free' the money has to come with more strings to make sure it is well spent, because paying for slackers to extend their carefree childhood into their 20s with easy free degrees is not a good use of money.

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
reply to elwoodblues

said by elwoodblues:

There are plenty of folks who are more suited to working with their hands (so to speak0 then being educated on how to be a paralegal.

I get the impression that was aimed at me.


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2

said by peterboro:

said by elwoodblues:

There are plenty of folks who are more suited to working with their hands (so to speak0 then being educated on how to be a paralegal.

I get the impression that was aimed at me.

LOL Paranoid?
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......