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Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to Woody79_00

Re: Windows 8 is blocking Linux-based recovery environments

said by Woody79_00:

I agree with Steve, this isn't Acronis fault. Acronis has "zero control" over functions added to motherboards by OEM or other motherboard manufacturers. SecureBoot being one of those features.

The software itself works just fine, if the OEM or motherboard vendor ships the board with SecureBoot on, then it is up to the user to disable it.

Let's get one thing clear. Do NOT blame the OEM or motherboard manufacturer for this mess. The blame falls directly on the shoulders of Microsoft. The OEMs have been ORDERED by Microsoft to ship ALL computers that have Windows 8 with Secureboot ON.

Let's make one other thing clear here. Why did Microsoft do this? They did it to further solidify their monopoly. And they were able to get away with this arrogant move only because the USA is full of corrupt persons in power, with the general populace deluded, chronically depressed and increasingly interested mostly in circus theatrics. If this mess can be resolved, it falls to the shoulders of EU to do so. Sad day for us USA citizens.

I want to be able to boot Linux along with Windows 8. I have been told by Dell (with supervisors also stating this) that I canNOT turn off Secure Boot permanently or what happened last week (because I had it turned off) will happen again, the computer may be unsalvageable the next time it happens, and Dell has stated turning off Secure Boot permanently violates the hardware warranty. (I doubt there could be any legal enforcement of the latter but Dell could make the user's life hell and Dell has shown many times that they are not afraid of state attorney generals suing them, etc. so most users will never turn off Secure Boot and will not be able to dual boot Linux which is exactly what Microsoft which created this mess wants)! Dell has also told me that no user is to enter BIOS and certainly not to make changes there, even temporary ones, except under the express directions of a hardware support tech.

Dell is starting to tell users who had the foresight to buy a Windows 8 machine with the Pro version to downgrade immediately to Windows 7 if they wish to dual boot Linux and/or they wish to tinker with BIOS, etc. They are also telling users to reinstall Win 8 in legacy mode.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


Steve
I know your IP address
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Foothill Ranch, CA
kudos:5
said by Mele20:

I want to be able to boot Linux along with Windows 8. I have been told by Dell (with supervisors also stating this) that I canNOT turn off Secure Boot permanently or what happened last week (because I had it turned off) will happen again, the computer may be unsalvageable the next time it happens, and Dell has stated turning off Secure Boot permanently violates the hardware warranty.

I call bullshit. Maybe they told you this, but it's not true. Microsoft requires that for x86 machines, the user must be able to turn off Secure Boot.

Steve
--
Stephen J. Friedl | Unix Wizard | Security Consultant | Orange County, California USA | my web site


NOYB
St. John 3.16
Premium
join:2005-12-15
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:1
reply to Mele20
said by Mele20:

Let's get one thing clear. Do NOT blame the OEM or motherboard manufacturer for this mess. The blame falls directly on the shoulders of Microsoft. The OEMs have been ORDERED by Microsoft to ship ALL computers that have Windows 8 with Secureboot ON.


This is not completely accurate.

Only have to ship with SecureBoot on in order to have Microsoft Windows 8 blessing & sticker.

But not doing so would likely be impractical. Probably wouldn't get much if any support or volume license pricing from Microsoft. Putting them in impossible position to compete.

--
Be a Good Netizen - Read, Know & Complain About Overly Restrictive Tyrannical ISP ToS & AUP »comcast.net/terms/ »verizon.net/policies/
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Lagz
Premium
join:2000-09-03
The Rock
said by NOYB:


said by Mele20:

Let's get one thing clear. Do NOT blame the OEM or motherboard manufacturer for this mess. The blame falls directly on the shoulders of Microsoft. The OEMs have been ORDERED by Microsoft to ship ALL computers that have Windows 8 with Secureboot ON.


This is not completely accurate.

Only have to ship with SecureBoot on in order to have Microsoft Windows 8 blessing & sticker.

But not doing so would likely be impractical. Probably wouldn't get much if any support or volume license pricing from Microsoft. Putting them in impossible position to compete.

You just made Mele20's argument. This is exactly why Microsoft is responsible. Companies like Dell are out for profit else they won't be in business. Getting certified and the sticker means they make a profit.
--
When somebody tells you nothing is impossible, ask him to dribble a football.

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to Steve
Yes, the user can turn it off TEMPORARILY under the direction of a Dell tech. Of course, Dell cannot control the user who turns it off temporarily on their own. But most will not do that...they will be scared to do it. Plus, it was made very clear to me that I cannot turn it off permanently even though Dell told Ed Bott in late 20011 that this would be possible on all Dells with Windows 8. You are rather naive if you think it matters greatly what Microsoft told the OEMs. The OEMs can make life hell for the customer if they don't do what the OEM says.

Dell is saying, if I want to turn of Secureboot permanently, to either reinstall Win 8 in legacy mode or downgrade and, unlike how I was first treated when I asked for Reinstallation DVDs for both Win 8 Pro and Win 7 Pro (and was willing to pay a reasonable fee for shipping) and got a "huh" response, Dell is now sending out reinstallation and downgrade disks (to those with Win 8 Pro) or USB sticks. (I did get the USB sticks for both Win 8 Pro and Win 7 Pro (sent by FedX overnight free of charge) and supervisors credited me later with being the Sm/Med business customer who got Dell's policy on this clarified so that support techs, customer service reps, etc were all clear about it and on the same page but I still see confusion about downgrade rights and how Dell handles that in the Dell forums but the confusion is mostly surrounding Home Division customers).

I actually like some things about Win 8 and with Start8 installed, I would like to continue to use Win 8 Pro but I want to do so with secure boot permanently OFF and I have been told both by techs (who are highly trained just for the XPS 8500 and Alienware machines) and their supervisors that this is NOT possible at least with these higher end machines. The only way would be to reinstall Win 8 in legacy mode or downgrade to Win 7 Pro.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


NOYB
St. John 3.16
Premium
join:2005-12-15
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to Lagz
said by Lagz:

You just made Mele20's argument. This is exactly why Microsoft is responsible. Companies like Dell are out for profit else they won't be in business. Getting certified and the sticker means they make a profit.


That's fine. I was simply clarifying the requirement / "ORDER".

The way I see it there are two possibilities to squash SecureBoot.

1) The major PC vendors all collectively refuse MS Win8 blessing & sticker (certification). Thus they are all on the same level playing field in that regard.
2) Consumers boycott anything with Windows 8 certification sticker.

I see nether of those happening in any significance.

--
Be a Good Netizen - Read, Know & Complain About Overly Restrictive Tyrannical ISP ToS & AUP »comcast.net/terms/ »verizon.net/policies/
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