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Gyp Thompson

@comcast.net

[Signals] COMCAST said my E2500 router is causing leakage.

Hello everyone,

Comcast came by this morning, didn't knock on the door and interrupted my service. I go outside and low and behold two guys are out there. I asked them what the problem was and they said there was leakage and because they couldn't find it they were just going to interrupt the service. One of the guys said they noticed the leakage late last night and it was then decided that service would be interrupted.

I inform one of the guys that I actually pay extra money a month to comcast for servicing/repairs/tech support. So, to make a long story short, we go outside to where the box is and he takes the cover off. From there he tests the signals and he tells me whatever is not getting service in the home right now is the culprit. So we go back in and the internet is down.

The worker came in, disconnected my E2500 router, tested the modem, used his walkie talkie to speak with the guy that was outside and they ran a check. The guy outside said it was fine. He hooked the router back up, contacted the guy on the walkie talkie and said the signal was no longer fine. I had them do this several times and I also swapped out ethernet cables but, according to them, the problem still persisted. They then told me I couldn’t hook my router back up and said if I hooked it back up they would just shut the service off.

I’ve had this router since December 11th 2011. I’ve never had any issues before and no one, aside from me, can access the settings of the router or the computer, so it’s not like kids were mucking around and screwed things up.
So, were these guys telling the truth or could there be something else going on? I’m using a small RCA/Thomson model. I checked the modem diagnostics and have attached a pic that shows what is going on when the modem I connected. I’ll hook the router back up, test again and post an image if you guys think it will help.

Again, do you guys think it could be the router causing the leak or could it be something else?


pflog
Bueller? Bueller?
Premium,MVM
join:2001-09-01
El Dorado Hills, CA
kudos:3

1 recommendation

There is no way a router behind the cable modem is causing "leakage" of the data/physical layer. Something doesn't add up here...if anything it would be the cable modem causing problems.

Is the cable modem on a splitter? Perhaps there's a TV connected which is causing the signal leakage/noise?
--
"I drank what?" -Socrates

ExoticFish

join:2008-08-31
Stuarts Draft, VA

1 recommendation

reply to Gyp Thompson
The router isn't connected via coax so I would not think it could cause any leakage back into the network.
--
»www.VAJeeps.com
»www.BronzedBod.com


Gyp Thomson

@comcast.net
reply to pflog
I just hooked my router back up so I could see if the settings would change and I attached a pic.

Internet is upstairs and cable tv service is upstairs and downstairs. On one side of the house is the cable box. On the other side of the house is my breaker. Years ago comcast had to hook the wires up under my roof, from the side where the cable box is to the side where the breaker is because they said CA law requires. BTW, I'm in the Bay Area of California. My apologies for not providing this info in my previous post.

On the outside, there are two splitters. One is a splitter that has one input and four outputs. The other is a splitter with one input and two outputs. I believe the one with one input and two outputs is the one with internet service.

So at this point what do I do? I just hooked the router back up.

ExoticFish

join:2008-08-31
Stuarts Draft, VA
I wouldn't do anything. Use your router like you want. It's not causing leakage into Comcast's network. You had idiot techs out to your home.
--
»www.VAJeeps.com
»www.BronzedBod.com


AnonMan

@comcast.net
reply to pflog
Technically this is possible but the chances are very slim.

The router plugs into the modem with a cable right? well that cable can carry noise or excess power or a number of things to cause, just like dirty power can cause signal issues for devices.

That said the issue could be the cable modem itself, it could have a problem when data is converted from it's Ethernet to coax thus be a bad network port on the modem or something else.

Only way to test really is plug another router in or a pc directly and have them check.

If it's all fine still the router could simply be providing too much power over the low voltage of the network or noise on it that is back feeding.

So for those saying not possible this is possible, but again it's rare. If they tested multiple times I doubt they made it up, just you need to figure out for sure is it the modem or the router.


EG
The wings of love
Premium
join:2006-11-18
Union, NJ
kudos:10
reply to ExoticFish
said by ExoticFish:

You had idiot techs out to your home.

Hmmm... If they were from CC's *noise police* dept., these guys are typically far from being "idiots"...


Gyp Thomson

@comcast.net
reply to AnonMan
The router has two ethernet cables. One is going to the pc and the other to the cable modem. The cable modem has a cable wire. We swapped out the ethernet cables and they said the problem was still there.

My question is this, how can a router all of a sudden provide too much power? I've had it for a year, so if it was going to malfunction wouldn't it provide minimal power?

I don't have access to another router so I can't test that. I do have access to another pc but there is no use in testing that with this router.


DrDrew
That others may surf
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:16
reply to ExoticFish
dup


DrDrew
That others may surf
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:16

1 recommendation

reply to ExoticFish
Leakage was probably their catch all term for ingress...

It's possible a grounding problem with some of the connected electronics which is using the router as a path to the coax ground and is inducing noise on to the coax.

It's also possible if the router is a wireless model, that it's RF transmitter is faulty and causing RF interference directly with the nearby modem or coax.

Either can cause enough interference to enter the cable system to impact OTHER customers.
--
If it's important, back it up... twice. Even 99.999% availability isn't enough sometimes.


Gyp Thompson

@comcast.net
reply to EG
"Hmmm... If they were from CC's *noise police* dept., these guys are typically far from being "idiots"..."

------------------------

These are the same guys that were going to nuke the service without even knocking on the door and letting me know what was going on. Then I had to tell the guy to check all the cables to make sure they weren't the issue, but he didn't check the one coming from outside. I just don't see how a modem can do this.

This isn't my area of expertise, so I'm not saying they are idiots, but something doesn't sit right with me and I had issues with comcast before.


Gyp Thompson

@comcast.net
reply to Gyp Thompson
I'm learning about all of this stuff as I type (ingress and the other term that alludes me right now) so I am a noob. This is not my area of expertise so I thank you all for helping me.

They said it would interfere with other customers, I've hooked the router back up but they did tell me they would kill it again if it came back. So should I just disconnect it and buy a new router or disconnect and get the comcast wireless router?


DrDrew
That others may surf
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:16
It may not be the router causing the problem at all, it may be something else connected to the router, but using it as a path.

More troubleshooting is needed.

I've seen these sorts of problems caused by all sorts of things, including: loose coax connectors nearby wireless devices allow in noise; wireless routers too close to modems which then overwhelms internal RF shielding; power outlets with hot/neutral reversed causing hot chassis to ground out through the coax, etc.
--
If it's important, back it up... twice. Even 99.999% availability isn't enough sometimes.


panth1
The Coyote

join:2000-12-11
Boca Raton, FL
reply to Gyp Thompson
said by Gyp Thompson :

These are the same guys that were going to nuke the service without even knocking on the door and letting me know what was going on. Then I had to tell the guy to check all the cables to make sure they weren't the issue, but he didn't check the one coming from outside. I just don't see how a modem can do this.

Most cable companies will install a high pass filter on the line and let the service techs find the noise. Assuming upstream noise. They figure knocking on the door to tell a customer noise is coming from their residence will result in them getting told to get lost. Plus they are probably running noise all day.

This forces the customer to call and let someone in to reconnect service and find whats' causing the noise.

Fortunately for you, you were home and they agreed to "troubleshoot" further.


Gyp Tompson

@comcast.net
reply to DrDrew
So, what can I do on my end to troubleshoot? I don't have the tools they have nor do I have the knowledge. Should I just give comcast a call and set up an appointment for them to come out?


Gyp Thompson

@comcast.net
reply to panth1
Ok, so I guess it's just normal procedure for them to do it the way they did it. So, in the mean time what should I do?


DrDrew
That others may surf
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:16
reply to Gyp Tompson
said by Gyp Tompson :

So, what can I do on my end to troubleshoot? I don't have the tools they have nor do I have the knowledge. Should I just give comcast a call and set up an appointment for them to come out?

That would probably be best. Let customer service know you were tagged for "signal leakage" inside the house.
--
Two is one, one is none. If it's important, back it up... twice. Even 99.999% availability isn't enough sometimes.


Gyp Thompson

@comcast.net
OK, I'll let them know. So are there any questions I need to specifically ask them? Or any info I need to come back and provide for you all?

ExoticFish

join:2008-08-31
Stuarts Draft, VA
reply to DrDrew
Really now ?


flwpwr

@comcast.net
reply to Gyp Thompson
Some confusing use of terms, Leakage is not the correct term. NOISE would be what you were causing. If your router is causing leakage that would be a problem for you and the FCC to deal with not us. If you are causing NOISE to be injected into our network in the form of RF waves or just voltage, then we will cut you off to restore service to everyone else, no matter what made up service you think you have, THERE is NO service that says we will give you special treatment when you are injecting noise into the system, no matter what some salesmen told you. You cause bad SNR, we track it to you, either you are home and you let us disco the offending outlet/equipment causing the issue, or you get a 75 Ohm terminator on your tap port. Either way the node issue gets fixed.

That said, I doubt a bad Ethernet cable could cause that, it has to be some form of wave feeding over the Ethernet to the modem and across it to the RF, which indicates a bad router or a power issue, IMHO. Something like a floating neutral or bad neutral perhaps, damaged PSU maybe? Or possible a bad design internally on the router circuits.

Has it been seen before, why yes it has. Is it common. No its not. Could the techs have been wrong, certainly, but if you hook it back up and it makes noise, your going to get removed from the network and thus have NO INTERNET/TV/PHONE as opposed to just having it off the modem. Your call, but know they were serious, if they go to that tap and see noise coming off your drop again, it is curtains.


noc007

join:2002-06-18
Cumming, GA
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Gyp Thompson
Did you connect a computer up directly to the modem when they were checking the line? If you don't believe you router is faulty, that's a quick way to try and rule it out. There's a really good chance your router is faulty and needs to be warrantied or replaced.

If it's out of warranty, then it lasted longer than the manufacturer guaranteed it would last. The average consumer wants their tech on the cheap; the manufactures know this and have to reduce their quality to get to that price point. Most of these companies are there to make profit to make the shareholders, not the customers, happy.

Personally I got tired of throwing my money away at consumer grade routers that had software bugs that rarely ever got fixed and the hardware wouldn't make it much past the warranty. These were even well regarded networking companies with positive reviews, but the reviews didn't always find/cover the bugs and definitely couldn't cover longevity. I've instead opted to just build my own out of PC parts that have long warranties and loaded pfSense onto it.


Gyp Thompson

@comcast.net
reply to flwpwr
@flwpwr, you said:

quote:
Some confusing use of terms, Leakage is not the correct term.
So should I call up Comcast and tell them leakage isn't the correct term and that the notice I'm holding in my hands that says "URGENT NOTICE! SIGNAL LEAKAGE ALERT" and "URGENT NOTICE! SIGNAL LEAKAGE SERVICE INTERRUPTION NOTICE" are incorrect and that the terminology used by the workers was also incorrect?

quote:
If your router is causing leakage that would be a problem for you and the FCC to deal with not us.
The note I have actually says Comcast is required by the FCC to repair any detected leaks, so are you sure it's just between me and the FCC? Why exactly did you guys come to my home again?

quote:
If you are causing NOISE to be injected into our network in the form of RF waves or just voltage, then we will cut you off to restore service to everyone else
According to the guys who came out no one else had an issue with service. No calls came in. Nothing.

quote:
no matter what made up service you think you have, THERE is NO service that says we will give you special treatment when you are injecting noise into the system, no matter what some salesmen told you.
I think you should probably back away from the computer screen for a bit, stop handling Comcast calls, cease relying on selective reading antics and utilize critical reading skills. I did not speak to a salesmen; there is nothing in any of my posts that suggest I spoke to a salesmen. I did not say I had a "made up service", but did say that I PAY extra money per month for TECH SUPPORT and for them to fix issues. Where did I say anything about special treatment?

quote:
You cause bad SNR, we track it to you, either you are home and you let us disco the offending outlet/equipment causing the issue, or you get a 75 Ohm terminator on your tap port. Either way the node issue gets fixed.
Yes, either way the issue gets fixed and me going to another company for internet service, as well as tv services, will also rectify the issue. The question however is what do I need to do NOW? Aside from disconnecting the router is there anything else I need to do or is there something I need to tell Comcast or tell the new guys that come out? Is there any information I need to get from them that I need to post here? However, I would appreciate it if YOU didn't answer and that other people on the forum would chime in. Your post came off hostile and I don't have time for that, especially when I'm the one footing the bill around here for my services, and you aren't.

quote:
That said, I doubt a bad Ethernet cable could cause that, it has to be some form of wave feeding over the Ethernet to the modem and across it to the RF, which indicates a bad router or a power issue, IMHO. Something like a floating neutral or bad neutral perhaps, damaged PSU maybe? Or possible a bad design internally on the router circuits.
The things you listed are beyond my realm of expertise and I'm simply going off the information that is in my hand and the information provided to me when the workers came out. My question is, and I'm not asking YOU personally, is what do I do now? Has the issue been truly resolved or is this something they need to look at again?

quote:
Has it been seen before, why yes it has. Is it common. No its not. Could the techs have been wrong, certainly, but if you hook it back up and it makes noise, your going to get removed from the network and thus have NO INTERNET/TV/PHONE as opposed to just having it off the modem.
And if they remove me from the network then they are going to have to send someone back out to check EVERYTHING, WHICH THEY DIDN'T, to see what exactly is the problem.

You just can't cut something off and not fix it and if they do something like that I'll cancel the service and that $120+ per month going to Comcast goes as well. Will they miss it? Hell no, but I'm not going to be jerked around.

At this time, the router IS disconnected, but tomorrow they are going to have to come out because I PAY extra money each month for them to handle service issues.

quote:
Your call, but know they were serious, if they go to that tap and see noise coming off your drop again, it is curtains.
They aren't the only internet provider here. They aren't the only company that provides tv services.

In closing, in the future, I would appreciate it if you didn't respond. Let the others who've been responding to my posts help me out. You just go ahead and handle some other Comcast customer or whatever it is you Comcast employees do, but let someone else here help me. Ok? Bye!


Gyp Thompson

@comcast.net
reply to noc007
quote:
Did you connect a computer up directly to the modem when they were checking the line? If you don't believe you router is faulty, that's a quick way to try and rule it out. There's a really good chance your router is faulty and needs to be warrantied or replaced.
The router is just a little over a month past the manufacturer warranty date. Yes, the modem was connected to the router and directly to the PC.

quote:
If it's out of warranty, then it lasted longer than the manufacturer guaranteed it would last. The average consumer wants their tech on the cheap; the manufactures know this and have to reduce their quality to get to that price point. Most of these companies are there to make profit to make the shareholders, not the customers, happy.
Ok.

quote:
Personally I got tired of throwing my money away at consumer grade routers that had software bugs that rarely ever got fixed and the hardware wouldn't make it much past the warranty. These were even well regarded networking companies with positive reviews, but the reviews didn't always find/cover the bugs and definitely couldn't cover longevity. I've instead opted to just build my own out of PC parts that have long warranties and loaded pfSense onto it.
I really don't have the time for all of that. I need custom built rigs for the type of work that I do and thats about it. I wouldn't need a custom built rig just for internet service.

But thanks for the help man.


Gyp Thompson

@comcast.net
UPDATE: I spoke with comcast today and a woman was able to look at the tech calls and she said no one was scheduled for yesterday and that she didn't see any problem areas from yesterday or the night before. She checked the levels without the router hooked up and she said they were normal. She checked the levels with the router hooked up and, again, said they were normal.

They're coming back out tommorow to redo all the wiring, but I have my router hooked back up.


DrDrew
That others may surf
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:16
said by Gyp Thompson :

UPDATE: I spoke with comcast today and a woman was able to look at the tech calls and she said no one was scheduled for yesterday and that she didn't see any problem areas from yesterday or the night before. She checked the levels without the router hooked up and she said they were normal. She checked the levels with the router hooked up and, again, said they were normal.

They're coming back out tommorow to redo all the wiring, but I have my router hooked back up.

Remote CSRs can't see the noise or leakage and it doesn't normally affect the levels reported by the modem that the CSRs can see. Mostly these issues can only be "seen" by techs using specific analyzers or leakage meters in the area. If bad enough other customers in the area will "see" the issue as intermittent modem trouble, slow speeds, packet loss, and choppy voice calls.

Frequently, system/maintenance techs looking for noise/leakage don't have any particular work orders for addresses. They're doing normal routine maintenance, which includes noise/leakage abatement. They'll tag, filter, and/or disco offenders which forces them to call in for a service appointment. Leaving it working often just results in confusing calls to tech support and cancelled truck rolls which result in the interference still happening.

Any which way, a system with a good maintenance plan will have techs like those monitoring the noise/leakage and getting them repaired ASAP. Letting it fester just makes service unreliable.
--
Two is one, one is none. If it's important, back it up... Somethimes 99.999% availability isn't even good enough.


Gyp Thompson

@comcast.net
Well, if anything happens I have her name. I asked her if she understood what I was talking about and she said yes. She told me there was never a problem in the area to begin with and the first two guys that came out told me no other customers called about the problem but that they saw the problem and then decided someone would be sent out in the morning. The guy from yesterday said they did have an order, from Comcast itself not because anyone called. BTW, the two people I spoke with today said they should have knocked on the door.

I want them to fix the problem, I don't want my service to impact anyone else which is why I'm asking questions, trying to get things resolved, etc. If push comes to shove and I have to dump my router, is the comcast wireless modem something I should look into?

Dan2112

join:2001-08-24
San Jose, CA
reply to Gyp Thompson
Did you get the names of the techs that visited? Check ID? Call me paranoid, but it sounds fishy to me.

ExoticFish

join:2008-08-31
Stuarts Draft, VA
reply to Gyp Thompson
said by Gyp Thompson :

is the comcast wireless modem something I should look into?

Absolutely not.
--
»www.VAJeeps.com
»www.BronzedBod.com


Gyp Thompson

@comcast.net
@Dan2112, I didn't get their info. I don't doubt they were comcast. There were two trucks there, they knew exactly where everything was, other people were calling in on the radio, they had all the gear all the other comcast guys had before. If they weren't comcast, they either stole the trucks and gear or they were fbi, cia, mossad or some other "group." I'm not doing anything illegal for those guys to even look my way, so I don't think that's the case.

@ExoticFish, why not? Is there a thread here where I can read about this modem? Or do you mind explaining it to me?

ExoticFish

join:2008-08-31
Stuarts Draft, VA
You do not need to RENT a modem/router from Comcast and pay them an additional fee every month just because two random people say your router is causing problems.

Personally I would simply continue to use everything like you were before. IF and a big IF some guys return and attempt to disconnect your service then contact your local office or the corporate office and get to the bottom of what they claim is going on. I'd be willing to bet that you don't hear anything else from those guys though.
--
»www.VAJeeps.com
»www.BronzedBod.com