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Jopon

join:2013-01-25

Shaw uses some sneaky kind of new throttling.

During the Christmas holidays I used a p2p to download about 40 gig's of various Classic Christmas movies no longer protected by copyright. After about 20 hours of downloading I woke up and found that my download speed was 20kbps and my upload was less than 1kbps.

First thing i did is what i always do when something is not working properly on the internet, run a bunch of bandwidth tests. First thing was my ping. 31ms ping to test servers. Except it took over 20 seconds to connect to the test server to get the ping. Then it was download speed test time. Again it took in the 30second range to connect, then downloaded at 45mbps until about 90%, then it froze for another 20 seconds and finished. Upload was just as fucked.

I did all the standard stopping restarting etc, but for the next two weeks every time I did anything it took forever to make a connection but once i did make the connection it went to normal speed. Also it was impossible to use p2p. Upload and download speed were both completely fucked.

After about two weeks it went back to "normal", except for netflix, which now has complete shit for a connection. Half the time I can't even watch a movie the quality is so bad, and watching it switch from hd to fucking crap and back every 20 mins makes it unplayable. I did some hunting and found some others with the same problem. Strangely enough they are all people who also work from home, and use netflix as a primary source of television.

Clearly shaw has decided to attack their customers who get the most use out of the services they pay for. I guess they only want customers who pay huge amounts of money for the service without actually using the service.


kevinds
Premium
join:2003-05-01
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Shaw

I'd get the signal on your modem checked first, making sure it is ok, no signal or interference problems going on.

I max the usage for internet plans, a few around the country, and have no issues.

Now I don't use Netflix, but really, I have seen nothing showing downstream shaping anywhere - congestion doesn't count...

Upstream, yes, non-time-sensitive traffic will be shaped in busy areas.
--
Yes, I am not employed and looking for IT work. Have passport, will travel.


tablo

join:2011-06-30
Edmonton, AB
Reviews:
·Shaw

3 edits
reply to Jopon

I have an RT-N16 used with DPC3825 bridged and torrent bandwidth (both up and down) maxes out almost every time. I'm on BB50. Even when I wasn't using it with a router (and just the DPC3825) I got 1-3MB/s download and maxing out upload. Are you using the modem/router combo?


kevinds
Premium
join:2003-05-01
Calgary, AB
kudos:3

On a side note, how do you like the RT-N16? I've been thinking about getting one for my car for 3G sharing...
--
Yes, I am not employed and looking for IT work. Have passport, will travel.


tablo

join:2011-06-30
Edmonton, AB

It's a nice and powerful router, especially if you could get them for cheap. Good custom firmware support is always nice to have. An RT-N16 in your car for 3G sharing?


kevinds
Premium
join:2003-05-01
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Shaw

USB Cellular modem connected to the RT-N16 yes,

WiFi and ethernet connections in my car, the RT-N16 is also 12 volt input, so I wouldn't need anything else to power it, just straight into my car's electrical...
--
Yes, I am not employed and looking for IT work. Have passport, will travel.


zod5000

join:2003-10-21
Victoria, BC
Reviews:
·Shaw
reply to Jopon

I haven't really noticed an usually p2p throttling. Downloads seem unaffected and upload throttling seems sporadic (they must turn it on when congestion issues develop). I don't think Shaw has every used download throttling. Slow downloads are usually a result of the upload throttling (torrent/p2p protocols usually send more bandwidth to the people who can upload faster, which spreads the file quicker. If your upload sucks, the tracker isn't going to prioritize traffic to you).

As for the ASUS RT-N16. I quite like the router. I have a modified version of TomatoUSB firmware on it. The only downside is that it doesn't do 5ghz. Everything now runs on 2.4ghz. Wi-Fi, wireless keyboards/mice, microwaves etc... There's so much interference in my apartment from my stuff and my neighbors stuff. I ended up reducing the router to single band and finding one channel that seems to have low interference. I don't get the 300mbps advertised from wireless N, but I get a big chunk of the 150mbps from single band Wireless N. I have my PC, XBOX, and Mediabox hardwired to the router, so at least my devices that really need the speed have it


ravenchilde

join:2011-04-01
kudos:2
reply to Jopon

said by Jopon:

Clearly shaw has decided to attack their customers who get the most use out of the services they pay for. I guess they only want customers who pay huge amounts of money for the service without actually using the service.

I'll confirm that this is not clear, and nothing sneaky is going on.

From my time here, most of these issues are resolved by people fixing their own equipment. The other major cause is congestion.

Shaw doesn't do download throttling, per their published AUP.

The conspiracy theories are always fun to see though.

Also if you are doing this on WiFi then I'd suggest you look at that first.

Doonz

join:2010-11-27
Beaumont, AB
reply to Jopon

Yeah those dirty buggers.

They're limiting my torrents to 22MB/s and 900KB/s upload. And the Buggers are even limiting usenet now at 27MB/s WTF

WE WANT BLOOOD


zod5000

join:2003-10-21
Victoria, BC
Reviews:
·Shaw

said by Doonz:

Yeah those dirty buggers.

They're limiting my torrents to 22MB/s and 900KB/s upload. And the Buggers are even limiting usenet now at 27MB/s WTF

WE WANT BLOOOD

I'd be ok if I could download at 22 megabytes per second or 27 megabytes on usenet

ravenchilde

join:2011-04-01
kudos:2
reply to Doonz

Even I'm jealous of your connection Doonz.


Doonz

join:2010-11-27
Beaumont, AB

said by ravenchilde:

Even I'm jealous of your connection Doonz.

You and me both.

But to be honest when I first got on the 250/15 I wasn't happy with the speeds I was receiving. I was basically capping off at 14MB/s. SO i fired up a ram drive to see if the bottle neck was the mechanical drives and it was.

Now everything that receives downloads from the internet are on ssd's.

THe torrent server downloads onto 2x 240gb in raid o
The usenet server is 2x240gb in raid 0.

They then transfer to my file server over 10gb links. (Ebayed some old cx4 switches and cards)

The File server is 16x 3TB in Raid 10 (Its freenas so its zfs raid) with 64GB of ram.

So my backend is designed to handle high speed.


bedetruth

@telus.net
reply to Jopon

If you want to investigate further for any possible illegal activity by Shaw, please read articles on when Comcast was hacking peoples data streams to insert 'p2p kill' commands.
I'd say that possibly you cable modem is building up errors and has gotten corruption of QOS settings(unrecoverable failure and needing a new modem). then again maybe your neighbor hacked it and reset all QOS for kicks and giggles.

Those who forget history... are idiots and ruin the world for the rest of us.

»www.eff.org/deeplinks/2007/10/ef···nterfere


October 19, 2007 | By Seth Schoen
EFF tests agree with AP: Comcast is forging packets to interfere with user traffic

This morning the Associated Press reported that Comcast is interfering with users' ability to run file sharing applications over its network.

Since we spoke to Comcast last month and understood them to deny that they are doing this, we've been running our own tests.

The results of our tests have agreed with AP's. Comcast is forging TCP RST packets which cause connections to drop (a technique also used by Internet censorship systems in China). These packets cause software at both ends to believe, mistakenly, that the software on the other side doesn't want to continue communicating.

The TCP RST packet forging seems to be protocol-specific: as AP reported, it at least sometimes happens directly in response to specific BitTorrent protocol events. This contradicts Comcast's statement to us that their network management does not target or discriminate against particular protocols. The timing of the injected packets suggests that something on Comcast's network understands the BitTorrent protocol and treats it differently from other protocols.

We confirmed this by trying to download files from Comcast subscribers using BitTorrent. We disabled any firewall or NAT software and connected the machines at both ends directly to the Internet, and ran Wireshark, a packet capture tool. This allows us to see exactly what packets each end sent and exactly what packets each end receives. If ISPs between both points were not forging packets, no packets should have been received by one end that bear the other end's IP address but were not sent by it(*). (This is comparable to recording a telephone conversation at both ends and then comparing the recordings to see whether the phone company sent the conversation through faithfully and unmodified.)

Unfortunately, the resulting packet traces look drastically different from one another: each user routinely receives huge numbers of TCP RST packets that appear to have been sent by the other user. But the packet trace at the other end confirms that these packets were never transmitted; they must have been generated and injected by an ISP along the way.

How do we know that Comcast is responsible? Apart from the large number of reports accusing Comcast, increasingly accompanied by packet traces showing suspicious RST packets, we repeated the experiment with two different Comcast connections (one in San Francisco, and one in Oregon) and saw the RST packets appear in both cases. When the Comcast user in Oregon -- Robb Topolski, a source for the AP story and one of the first to carefully document the RST forging phenomenon -- switched on a VPN connection that caused his communications to be encrypted and routed through a different ISP, the RST packets completely disappeared.

Comcast keeps telling its users that the problems they're seeing are not its fault. It's time for Comcast to come clean about what it's doing and take its users' reports seriously.

(*) Note to network experts: IP fragmentation does allow for the possibility that a single packet sent by one end could arrive in multiple fragments, none of which was originally sent in fragmented form. However, we did not observe any fragmentation at all during our experiments and, in particular, the forged RST packets are clearly not fragments of packets sent by the other end.
»encrypted.google.com/webhp#hl=en···08451a36

ravenchilde

join:2011-04-01
kudos:2

said by bedetruth :

If you want to investigate further for any possible illegal activity by Shaw, please read articles on when Comcast was hacking peoples data streams to insert 'p2p kill' commands.

Shaw isn't doing this, and doesn't throttle downloads, per their published AUP. Also noteworthy is that none of the ShaperProbe type tools have ever found shaping activity, on the downstream side, by Shaw either. Not in my couple years on these forums.


ShawCustomer

@shawcable.net

I have noticed the speeds are drastically decreased between the hours of 3:30pm to midnight on weekdays in Vancouver. This has been going on since sometime last week. The speeds have been so drastically it makes visiting websites or uploading documents mutually impossible during peak hours.



rustydusty

join:2009-09-29
Red Deer, AB
reply to Jopon

Shaw is not throttling download, please everyone get it through your head. If your download speeds are slow it's congestion, not throttling.



capdjq
Premium
join:2000-11-01
Vancouver

How is it I never seem to have a problem with download speeds, unless there is 10 seeders and 3500 leechers, but everyone else appears throttled?


ravenchilde

join:2011-04-01
kudos:2

I suspect a lot of hardware cannot keep up with the amount of connections BT creates, alongside network congestion.


waldstein

join:2010-07-25
Hoserland

said by ravenchilde:

I suspect a lot of hardware cannot keep up with the amount of connections BT creates, alongside network congestion.

That, too....along with a near-infinite variety of routings and individual originating servers. Seems to me that p2p speeds are so over-determined that it is silly to use them to assess one's line speeds at all. My speeds sometimes vary wildly; other times, they can be rock solidly extremely FAST or interminably SLOW. Personally, I've seen no evidence of throttling by Shaw, but what I should really be saying is: If Shaw REALLY IS throttling, how in hell would I know it anyway?

kevinds
Premium
join:2003-05-01
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Shaw

www.measurementlab.net

Has a few tests to detect throttling, in both directions, not 100% but they can/will give indications on what to look for/at.
--
Yes, I am not employed and looking for IT work. Have passport, will travel.



someshawguy

@shawcable.net
reply to Jopon

shaw isn't throttling but i won't deny Shaw is indeed using sneaky unethical legal methods to limit performance for streaming, gaming, etc. during the busy hours.



rustydusty

join:2009-09-29
Red Deer, AB

said by someshawguy :

shaw isn't throttling but i won't deny Shaw is indeed using sneaky unethical legal methods to limit performance for streaming, gaming, etc. during the busy hours.

That's throttling, in your own twisted description. None of which I have ever seen.

kevinds
Premium
join:2003-05-01
Calgary, AB
kudos:3

Congestion is an unethical legal method you know rustydusty....



rustydusty

join:2009-09-29
Red Deer, AB
reply to Jopon

Damn them!



Mister M

join:2010-05-01
Vancouver, BC
reply to rustydusty

said by rustydusty:

That's throttling, in your own twisted description. None of which I have ever seen.

:YAWN:


rustydusty

join:2009-09-29
Red Deer, AB

said by Mister M:

said by rustydusty:

That's throttling, in your own twisted description. None of which I have ever seen.

:YAWN:

Indeed, his post is very tiring to read.

KernelKurtz

join:2012-06-25
reply to Doonz

But to be honest when I first got on the 250/15 I wasn't happy with the speeds I was receiving. I was basically capping off at 14MB/s. SO i fired up a ram drive to see if the bottle neck was the mechanical drives and it was.


KernelKurtz

join:2012-06-25

So that didn't work the way I thought it would.......

Anyway, a lot of people probably don't realize how limiting disc speed is. I work for the local municipal government, and we have a fairly large fiber MAN (as well as a lot of leased TLS/VPLS from Shaw), and to qualify fiber, as well as typical OTDR and loss tests, we use two laptops running Knoppix (any live distro would do) to do FTP transfers over it. With files loaded directly into RAM we can get pretty close to a full Gb/s between even some fairly old laptops. This lets us move a lot of traffic to look for errors on interfaces and such as well.

Also, Glasnnost is another app to test for shaping/throttling

»broadband.mpi-sws.org/transparen···test.php


ruiner

join:2012-03-10
Canada

Except even most fairly recent laptop drives can sustain a 30 MB/s write speed in Windows. I have 2 laptops that are 3 and 4 yrs old. The 3 yr old can hold around 33 MB/s and the 4 yr old budget laptop can handle around 25 MB/s.

Even my NAS with a 1 GHz embedded SoC can handle > 30 MB/s write.


Doonz

join:2010-11-27
Beaumont, AB

said by ruiner:

Except even most fairly recent laptop drives can sustain a 30 MB/s write speed in Windows. I have 2 laptops that are 3 and 4 yrs old. The 3 yr old can hold around 33 MB/s and the 4 yr old budget laptop can handle around 25 MB/s.

Even my NAS with a 1 GHz embedded SoC can handle > 30 MB/s write.

Which drives would those be?