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jamesonnorth

join:2012-12-22
Modoc, IN

How does bonded REALLY work?

I have an installer at my house right now and he's putting in a second connect line. I tried to grab some information about it from him, and he told me if Frontier is willing to put in a second connect line, typically they're willing to install bonding. He also told me the lines and the office supports bonding, but the connection from the office to Frontier's network doesn't support it.

Is that a bunch of crap? Because I'm 99% sure my office is connected to Frontier's network (through Fort Wayne) by fiber. There's no way they could carry many people with 5-7mbps connections without Fiber.

So what's the holdup? Are they trying to meet a sales quota or an income to bandwidth quota or something? It's really annoying me I will have to use a pfSense server to do load balancing and still not get the performance of bonded, and for $80 per month instead of $50 for bonded.
--
CompTIA Net+ Network Administrator - I know networks!
Professional Photographer - www.jnphoto.biz - Weddings and Senior Photos
Nice and comfy with Frontier DSL: I can help with your issues!
»speedtest.net/result/2387637868.png


Ben J
Triple Play Architect
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:9
A node won't be green-lighted for bonded service if, based on max port count or by predicted future sales for that node (including any subtended RTs), the existing uplink could not handle the load. Basically, this prevents bonded services from being enabled on already "oversold" nodes, or nodes that have the potential to be "oversold" in the near future (with or without bonded services). Second Connect is considered a "additional subscriber" on the network, so those orders still flow through based on existing procedures on subscriber counts per node.
--
Transparency Disclosure and Disclaimer: I am a Frontier employee posting in my own personal capacity. The opinions and positions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of Frontier.


NOYB
St. John 3.16
Premium
join:2005-12-15
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:1
said by Ben J:

Second Connect is considered a "additional subscriber" on the network, so those orders still flow through based on existing procedures on subscriber counts per node.


And thereby moving the node even closer to being oversold.

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Be a Good Netizen - Read, Know & Complain About Overly Restrictive Tyrannical ISP ToS & AUP »comcast.net/terms/ »verizon.net/policies/
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thistool

@144.70.2.x
reply to Ben J
Frontier over sell a node lol oh no say it's not so. How about a single Lucent shelf with 12 adsl2+ cards, feed from a single ds3 Being sold 7m based on loop length to the cust ped. No Frontier would never do that. Heck just look at the months of congestion, um excuse me utilization in the Carolina's.

jamesonnorth

join:2012-12-22
Modoc, IN
reply to Ben J
I have set up a temporary solution with a load balancing/gateway group pfSense server. It'll do for now, and as long as I use a download manager or something that can use multiple connections, I get 12.5mbps down and 1.5mbps up. That works for me for now, but $80 per month is crap when they could very easily put me on bonded if they wanted, especially since I have two active lines.

I'd even be willing to pay the $80 per month for 12mbps/1.5mbps bonded simply because it'd be less of a headache for me to maintain. Now I have to worry about another server sucking power instead of a little modem.

Frontier really ticks me off sometimes...I can't imagine them running all these DSL customers off a DS3 line, but I've seen weird things. My high school ran off a single T1 line, and we had 3 full computer labs and at least 2 smaller labs. Stretch the backhaul to the max and when things stop working or slow to an absolute crawl, install a few OC3 lines or higher.

I've had confirmation from the techs that a Frontier branded U-verse service is coming to my area, so I know we can expect 12mbps, but he said it's doubtful if we see VDSL until 2014. Here's hoping I only have to shell out $80 per month for a few months until the upgrades...
--
CompTIA Net+ Network Administrator - I know networks!
Professional Photographer - www.jnphoto.biz - Weddings and Senior Photos
Nice and comfy with Frontier DSL: I can help with your issues!
»speedtest.net/result/2387637868.png

jamesonnorth

join:2012-12-22
Modoc, IN
If anyone else has this kind of issue, I'd really suggest trying out pfSense. I didn't think it would work as well as it is, but here's a speedtest.

»www.speedtest.net/result/2472459013.png

pittpete1

join:2009-06-12
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
reply to jamesonnorth
Never say never when it comes to Frontier.
James, my area was being fed with T1's until I got on them about low speeds during peak times.
The highest option is the 6mbs and I was lucky to get over 1.5
It took a few months but they upped it to a DS3 and speeds are better.
I live an hour outside of NYC.

jamesonnorth

join:2012-12-22
Modoc, IN
I've said it many times, but that's a sad situation for backhaul. If there are only 20 customers and they all have 6mbps and are normal internet users, a DS3 would be okay, as it's unlikely they'll all be using full pipe at the same time. But an entire area being fed off T1's is ridiculous. I say ridiculous but I've seen it here on the forums more than once. I want to say Hank also has/had that problem.

I have always been able to pull at least 5mbps of my 6mbps, so either they don't have many DSL customers here or there's enough backhaul.

Living that close to a major metropolitan area and having any less than 10mbps is ludicrous. I say less than 10mbps is ludicrous, but I lived with 768k up and down for about 2 years before Frontier brought in DSL.
--
CompTIA Net+ Network Administrator - I know networks!
Professional Photographer - www.jnphoto.biz - Weddings and Senior Photos
Nice and comfy with Frontier DSL: I can help with your issues!
»speedtest.net/result/2387637868.png

jamesonnorth

join:2012-12-22
Modoc, IN
reply to jamesonnorth
One potential issue I've noticed is that one of the lines looks really weird. Here are the stats for my Second Connect line:

Transceiver Statistics
Transceiver Revision 4.4.9.13.1.1
Vendor ID Code 4D54
Line Mode ADSL_2plus
Data Path INTERLEAVED

Transceiver Information Down Stream Path Up Stream Path
DSL Speed (Kbits/Sec) 7838 861
Margin (dB) 8.5 19.7
Line Attenuation (dB) 15.3 8.8
Transmit Power (dBm) 2.4 10.1
FEC Errors 34936 206
HEC Errors 0 8
CRC Errors 0 0

What's with those margins? Attenuation is great, though. And do these errors look a bit high? The modem has been up for less than 15min.
--
CompTIA Net+ Network Administrator - I know networks!
Professional Photographer - www.jnphoto.biz - Weddings and Senior Photos
Nice and comfy with Frontier DSL: I can help with your issues!
»speedtest.net/result/2387637868.png

jamesonnorth

join:2012-12-22
Modoc, IN
Sorry for so many posts, everyone! Just one more for now haha.

Here are the modem stats for my PRIMARY LINE to compare with the second connect I just posted.

Transceiver Statistics
Transceiver Revision 4.4.9.13.1.1
Vendor ID Code 4D54
Line Mode ADSL_2plus
Data Path FAST

Transceiver Information Down Stream Path Up Stream Path
DSL Speed (Kbits/Sec) 8024 923
Margin (dB) 24.3 22.9
Line Attenuation (dB) 16.4 9.8
Transmit Power (dBm) 11.2 12.5
FEC Errors 0 0
HEC Errors 0 7
CRC Errors 0 0

I thought it was weird they put the Second Connect line on Interleaved when my first one is on Fast Path. My SNR margins look more normal to me on the primary line and funky on the Second Connect.

Could the funky margins be due to the weird transmit power settings on the second connect line? I feel a call to customer service might be in order so I can get both of these connections more even. Thoughts?
--
CompTIA Net+ Network Administrator - I know networks!
Professional Photographer - www.jnphoto.biz - Weddings and Senior Photos
Nice and comfy with Frontier DSL: I can help with your issues!
»speedtest.net/result/2387637868.png

Action2

join:2010-06-29
Newman, IL
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
It may be hard to get customer service to do much about that unless you get the right representative. If you get the wrong representative, your primary line will be set to 7838/861 by the time they close the ticket.

The best you could probably do is ask for a line test, otherwise if you are getting 80% of your speed they will say all is normal.

If you get disconnects or have to reboot the modem you may have a better case. I would also request a change to fastpath. Hope that they can get your line improved!


cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7
reply to thistool
said by thistool :

Frontier over sell a node lol oh no say it's not so...

Show me a ISP that doesn't oversell a node and I'll show you an ISP that isn't going to be around for long.

If you are paying $50-$80 for a connection at a residence or business, you aren't paying for committed bandwidth. Period.

jenni4um

join:2012-12-10
Henrietta, NY
reply to jamesonnorth
I agree with Ben J. I have heard there are some areas that are congested. I would suggest to contact technical support and see if they can determine that the office that you connect to is congested.

This phone number has been helpful to me in the past 1-800-239-4430.

Frontier Fan.

jamesonnorth

join:2012-12-22
Modoc, IN

2 recommendations

Congestion is not the issue--not having enough ports and Frontier not willing to give up profit per port is the issue. Frontier sometimes has their priorities mixed up, with customer satisfaction being a bit low on that list.

I've been looking at posts you've been making and you always seem almost blindly supportive of Frontier and a little too suggestive of their Customer Support line. Do you work for Frontier?
--
CompTIA Net+ Network Administrator - I know networks!
Professional Photographer - www.jnphoto.biz - Weddings and Senior Photos
Nice and comfy with Frontier DSL: I can help with your issues!
»speedtest.net/result/2387637868.png


Hank
Searching for a new Frontier
Premium
join:2002-05-21
Burlington, WV
kudos:3
jamesonnorth - it does give one that impression.