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Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
reply to skeechan

Re: Pocket change for the 2nd run Samsung

I'm still stuck at the "Apple innovating" thing. A bunch of crummy design patents and invalid utility patents doesn't really make me think "innovation".
--
"You lie!" Talk about an understatement, Joe.



N3OGH
Yo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:2

It really is love/hate when it comes to Apple.

They didn't invent the wheel, BUT they don't copy everything from someone else, either. They didn't get to the point they're at without doing something right.

I can remember when Michael Dell said Apple should shut down & return what they could to their shareholders. So much for that, MSFT just threw them a life preserver of cash. I still think Dell makes some good product, they just failed to adapt to the current market.

Apple, along with Microsoft, Dell, HP, And a host of others are great companies. All have come up with innovative products & concepts over the years.

Hate Apple all you want, it's still a great company that's come out with products that SELL.

And in the end, selling product is the point.....
--
Petty people are disproportionally corrupted by petty power



skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Clear Wireless
·Cox HSI
·Verizon FiOS

4 edits

Sure, they didn't invent the wheel. They create a market for it...then everyone else rolls in selling their own wheels and oddly they look just like Apple's right down to identical box art.

It is easy once Apple shows them how to do it. But that's fine. That is what 2nd run companies do. They don't innovate, they imitate and make a crap-load of money doing it.

Simply put, Apple CREATES the market for goods while Samsung only serves existing markets. They couldn't innovate their way out of a paper sack and they create no compelling products. They create no new market, no revolutionary anything. Nothing they make has you saying "Wow!"

There was no market for all touch phones before the iPhone. Look at what was selling...it wasn't some all touch LG that no one had ever heard of. It was the plastic button stuff, the Treos and Blackberries, the button filled crap Samsung was making before the iPhone was released. People were bummed that the iPhone didn't have a physical keyboard. The iPhone was 180 degrees from where the rest of the market was.

There was no market for "ultra books" until the MBA was released. A few companies responded like Dell with their failed Adamo, but the rest waited to see how the market reacted. After the first MBA was a slow turd Apple rolled with Core i5 and i7s (while everyone else was still doing C2DLVs) and the notebooks became very popular. Now on the PC side there is a MacBook Air class of sub notebooks, the ultrabooks, and to no surprise, they all look identical to the MacBook Air. More 2nd runs to Apple creating a market for $1000 consumer (not boutique $4000 jobs for roadwarriors) sub-notebooks.

There was no market for tablets before the iPad. Sure, IBM/Lenovo and Dell made some very pricey PC based tablets along with some others but they didn't sell. Microsoft KNEW that tablets were the future but struggled in the tablet space for years because they were doing it wrong. Apple created the market for it. They didn't invent it. They did something infinitely more important; they showed the entire industry how to do a tablet that people WANTED. Now all the tablets look and function like the iPad. Sure they're different in the small details but overall, they're all just like the iPad. From Samsung slavishly copying Apple's box art to Microsoft slavishly copying Apple Retail stores (we have one in Mission Viejo and it is identical to the Apple Store except there are no people in it)...everyone follows Apple.

Apple is the first run company in this industry. Samsung and everyone else follow that market leader. That is simply the fact. Apple haters can hate all the want but they wouldn't have their products of choice if Apple didn't show those device makers how to do it and do it successfully.


HiDesert

join:2008-08-17

1 recommendation

Big problem with your argument is that Apple can control what APPS you can use. What codecs they will allow, and what codecs they won't allow, which is most of them. IPAD is very limited in codec support. Still can't run flash and there is a ton of flash sites still out there. They don't even give the user the option to decide that.. they decide for you..like everything else IOS is about. I hate Apple not for the reasons you quote. But because Android gives me more choice. Allows me to run all my Xvid, MKV's etc.. without having to transcode them to Apples standards. Gives me a file manager and the freedom to carry as many 32GB SD I want. Andoid allows me to customize and to even install non market apps if I so choose to. IOS is suffocating IMO. Its limiting and inflexible to what I WANT to do with my device. Other then that, I admit fully that Apple makes some sweet hardware. Nothing against OSX either. But IOS was designed to control the user end and I don't appreciate that. That's the real reason people bash iphone, ipad.. not for the hardware but for the closed ended IOS.



skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
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·Cox HSI
·Verizon FiOS

4 edits

My TF wouldn't run flash in Chrome, neither would my Xoom. And when I did try it in the stock browser it was so crippled and choppy that it was unusable. All of my Android devices had HORRIBLE native codec support...everything had to be added in, usually for extra dough and then file handling sucked. Nothing like syncing stuff and then leaving only to find 1/2 of it didn't sync.

I ultimately GAVE my TF700 with its dock, Xoom and Galaxy S WiFi away to my brother and nephew because they were frustratingly unusable. And when I first got them, I was like, this is cool...that is cool...but then the negatives kept adding up and adding up. You could do basic thinks like surf the web and type docs (the TF700 dock with its pointing device was awesome) but they were woefully inadequate for anything else. Again, take the TF700 for example...nice 1080P screen, the brightest I had ever seen, near retina quality, but at the time NO APPS in Google Play supporting 1080P. That screen on Android was a diamond in a goat's ass. Games and apps were all scaled and looked like complete dog crap. The only native 1080P apps were things like mail (which SUCKS on Android) and the browser.

All of my Android devices choked (frame dropped) on the MP4 1080P videos I run on my Macs and PCs, while my iPad, iPhone and ATVs play them fine. To get videos to run even on the Tegra 3 I had to re-encode them and I wasn't going to re-encode a 1000 videos just to satisfy Android when the MP4s I already had would play on EVERYTHING else from my phone and tablet to my PCs. I spent quite a bit of money buying different codec packs trying to find one that worked well (obvious some are more efficient than others). Finally I gave up. The solution was simple; get rid of the weak links...Android devices. Maybe someday in the future someone will make an Android device worth owning, but I haven't seen it yet.

As for Flash...HTML5 is now and future, Apple knew it, Adobe now knows it since they abandoned mobile flash development for HTML5 packaging and Google knows it since they don't support it in Chrome. My machines don't have floppy disks either.

The locked down argument is also bogus. You can't run anything good outside Googleplay without JBing the device and you can JB an iPad...the JB for iOS6.1 is rolling out Sunday. Sure you can use the Samsung store instead of Google Play but it is the same crap. The good stuff is the stuff you need to root the device for. My iPhone 4 ran Cydia apps no problem when it was jailbroken.

Then there was not all devices being equal...I would try and get the Sirius player for example and it would be compatible with one device but not the other. WTF? I was at the mercy of the device maker for OS upgrades which for some devices like my Galaxy S WiFi NEVER came. You got 2.2 and were done. I got 2.3 installed but not through any official update. Honeycomb...yeah right. Samsung abandoned the device the day it came out...$220 and you get none of the new goodies. Meanwhile my iOS devices from that same era run the latest OS version; fully supported.

But all of this is details...NONE of these devices would even exist today if Apple didn't gamble hundreds of millions or more creating a market for them and showed everyone else how to do it.



Bootes
Premium
join:2005-01-28
New York, NY
reply to HiDesert

Uhh there are apps that play XviD, MKV, etc. Just like on Android, neither comes with support for these codecs built in.

As far as Flash, sorry kind of late. Flash is dead, Adobe doesn't even try to push it anymore. It's no longer supported on Android. It had its place, but it was badly misused. Apple killed Flash and we're better off without it.

As far as choice, well the jailbreak for the latest iOS will be released in the next couple of days.

iOS was created to provide a good quality experience to using the Internet on smartphones, Android was created to gain more data on you in order to help sell ads.



N3OGH
Yo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:2
reply to skeechan

Good f@cking point. And, good post.....


Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5

1 recommendation

I think it's weird that people have their heads stuffed so far up Job's ass--and he's dead! What a bunch of BS and it's gobbled up like it's manna from heaven. Funny stuff.
--
"You lie!" Talk about an understatement, Joe.



skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Clear Wireless
·Cox HSI
·Verizon FiOS
reply to Bootes

I don't have it but I saw Media Player Classic in the App Store...FLAC player, ogg, WMV...CineXPlayer does XVID/MKVs, upscaling, TV output, has DLNA support and for a $1 in app purchase, 3D support, just like on Kindle and Android...and there are lots of other players.

Yeah, you don't have to stick with MP4.

Expand your moderator at work


Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to skeechan

Re: Pocket change for the 2nd run Samsung

said by skeechan:

But all of this is details...NONE of these devices would even exist today if Apple didn't gamble hundreds of millions or more creating a market for them and showed everyone else how to do it.

Yes, they would have


JamesPC

join:2005-10-12
Orange, CA

1 edit

1 recommendation

reply to Anon

I was thinking the same thing, samsung makes most of the key parts of the iphone.

--
Mod note: Deleted quote removed. --kc


HiDesert

join:2008-08-17
reply to skeechan

That was then. I guarantee if you buy a new galaxy note 10.1 with a quad core you will be able to playback 1080P files no problems. Plus you will have all the added codec support, have sd slot, a file manager and a very fast JB. Your correct, Apple was the only game in town for a couple years on the tablets. But the competition has caught up and offers a hell of allot more choice in customizing your own experience. Even on my tab 2 with JB I can run any 720P file very smoothly, sirius works perfect.. Its a fast tab considering I only paid 280 dollars. If I really wanted the extra speed to play more advanced games and 1080P I would buy the Note. But I am cheap and like great value for my money and still be allowed to do what I WANT and not a big Corp dictating that experience for me. BTW. I can run flash sites quite well using firefox with adbock installed, even on my cheapo tab 2 10.1. I can imagine on the note it would be no sweat at all.

The point is Samsung has caught up with Apple. They have fine phones as well and the S3 and note are starting to get Apple defectors from iphone.. I personlly know many who have made the switch. Apple calls Android fragmentation. I call it freedom of choice. OSX is not so bad, but IOS really is nothing less then a money grab from Apple. And now the lightning jack on the ip5 takes the greed to another level.



skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
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AA169|170
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Reviews:
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·Cox HSI
·Verizon FiOS

4 edits
reply to JamesPC

Laughable...those parts come out of Samsung semi, not their mobility unit, meanwhile everyone makes semi just like everyone makes steering wheels but it is a long road between steering wheels and seats to putting them together to make art like a Ferrari; something revolutionary that has people saying "Wow, I gotta have that." The only reason Apple is buying from Samsung semi is they could handle Apple's massive volume on short notice, not because Samsung is anything special. Apple is already ditching Samsung and moving to Taiwan Semi with their 28nm fab. They already make Qualcomm's, Broadcom's, NVidia's and AMD's chips; including the Tegra 3 and Snapdragon. Samsung is nothing unique. They are semi manufacturing muscle without any brains; the Master Blaster of semiconductors.

The mobility unit is a 2nd run operation, they don't innovate, they are in a state of constant 'creative crisis', relying on others to do the innovation and revolutionize the mobile space. Then they roll in with their slightly tweaked products, horribly built, running a free OS from another company that is a sorry knock off of iOS and sell it at a lower price point serving the bottom rungs that is the free phone market. And that is great; that is where the volume is.

Samsung doesn't innovate. They do nothing revolutionary. They follow the heard. That is their business model and they make big bucks doing it.



skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Clear Wireless
·Cox HSI
·Verizon FiOS

4 edits
reply to HiDesert

That was "then"? That was about 6 months ago with ICS and they still don't ship with all the codec packs, you still have to go get them along with 3rd party players trying to find something that works without frame dropping.

Meanwhile, the Galaxy Note better not frame drop given it is only pushing 1280x800 ($500 for the 16GB model with such low rez...ouch) That is a far cry from 1920x1080 that the TF700 sports or the 2048x1536 that the iPad 3 and 4 sports. Sure, my TF700 wouldn't frame drop if I re-encode down to HD-lite but then why own a 1080P tablet...can't play 1080P videos reliably and there were no apps...should have picked up a TF300.

And why would I jump through all those hoops to run a 2nd rate OS on horribly built hardware like that found in the Android space? Why would I take 10 steps backward simply to run Android? Why would I re-encode and keep a special set of duplicate everything to run a miserably convoluted and poorly thought out OS like Android that is 3 years behind iOS in usability? I wouldn't and I don't even try any more.

Expand your moderator at work


Simba7
I Void Warranties

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT
reply to skeechan

Re: Pocket change for the 2nd run Samsung

said by skeechan:

I was at the mercy of the device maker for OS upgrades which for some devices like my Galaxy S WiFi NEVER came. You got 2.2 and were done. I got 2.3 installed but not through any official update. Samsung abandoned the device the day it came out...$220 and you get none of the new goodies.

Um.. You really should look at Cyanogenmod.
said by skeechan:

Honeycomb...yeah right.

Um.. Honeycomb was for tablets, not phones.
said by skeechan:

Meanwhile my iOS devices from that same era run the latest OS version; fully supported.

Bull. I have an iPod Touch 2nd Gen and I can't run the latest OS, not to mention quite a few apps stopped supporting anything less than iOS 4.3 (mine's running 4.2.1). It's almost useless except for Pandora and Slacker. Can't run Rdio on it.
--
Bresnan 30M/5M | CenturyLink 5M/896K
MyWS[PnmIIX3@3.2G,8G RAM,500G+1.5T+2T HDDs,Win7]
WifeWS[A64@2G,2G RAM,120G HDD,Win7]
Router[2xP3@1G,2G RAM,18G HDD,Allied Telesyn AT2560FX,2xDigital DE504,Sun X1034A,2xSun X4444A,SMC 8432BTA,Gentoo]


Simba7
I Void Warranties

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT
reply to Bootes

said by Bootes:

Android was created to gain more data on you in order to help sell ads.

..and Apple isn't monitoring you to do the same? Wow, you're naive.


Bootes
Premium
join:2005-01-28
New York, NY

Apple is a hardware company. Google is an advertising company. They have very different motives.



Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
kudos:1

iAds...



Simba7
I Void Warranties

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT
reply to Bootes

said by Bootes:

Apple is a hardware company.

Riiight.. and the software that it runs just happens to make itself? How easy would it be to put in monitoring software when the entire platform is locked down?

..not to mention, if someone found out about it, they'd call it a "feature" to make their "experience" smoother and more enjoyable. Whatever.

At least I can utilize third-party firmware (Cyanogenmod, etc) on my phone. Can you?


skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
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Reviews:
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·Cox HSI
·Verizon FiOS

1 edit
reply to Simba7

Oh, I tried lots of custom firmware but they were all super buggy or plain broke stuff. When I had tried CM9, it would break lots of stuff like BT, the camera and even rotation. Even now, while CM9 has progressed, it is still a bug filled and broken feature mess, making ICS still unusable on the player. It's moot now as I have ditched my Galaxy WiFi 5.0.

At the time, c.2011, all the talk was about HC coming on new HTC handsets like the Pyramid/Sensation (they ended up shipping with GB I think) so I was hoping to see it on my player...then later ICS also not available on the player. And it isn't like it can't run. HTC's new budget handset, I think it's the Desire or something is single core, same 800 x 400 resolution, 1/2GB of RAM...will be running ICS.

The 2nd Gen touch is 3-4 years old, originally released back in 2008. The Galaxy S WiFi and Galaxy Player are still currently shipping models and still aren't shipping with ICS. If I had known that Samsung was never going to update the player I wouldn't have bought it.



Simba7
I Void Warranties

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT

Never had many issues with CM9. Of course, I ran the latest build. CM10 gave me a few issues initially, but the 20121215 build was the best. CM10.1 has been a bit sluggish, but I'll give it more time to mature before I switch over.

I've been eyeballing the Galaxy Player 5.0 and been thinking of grabbing one. I'll keep an eye on xda-developers to see if anyone is building a ROM for it.

My Samsung Captivate is 3 years old.. and there are still recent ROMs being made for it to make it do recent stuff. I swear, that Captivate is the most versatile phone I've seen in quite awhile. The only phone I won't buy is Motorola. They lock it down severely so you can't dev for it, then ignore it for updates. This happened with my D2G.
--
Bresnan 30M/5M | CenturyLink 5M/896K
MyWS[PnmIIX3@3.2G,8G RAM,500G+1.5T+2T HDDs,Win7]
WifeWS[A64@2G,2G RAM,120G HDD,Win7]
Router[2xP3@1G,2G RAM,18G HDD,Allied Telesyn AT2560FX,2xDigital DE504,Sun X1034A,2xSun X4444A,SMC 8432BTA,Gentoo]



Bootes
Premium
join:2005-01-28
New York, NY
reply to Simba7

Well you obviously couldn't tell that that part was kind of half kidding. That's why I winked. However, it's still based on the truth. Android was created to keep mobile users using Google services, so they could advertise to you and have better access to information about you. I'm not someone that cares all that much about this, but many people do. If you can't see that Google's goal is to know as much about you as possible in order to target advertisements to you, you're in denial.

Obviously there are benefits to Android and benefits to iOS. I did install Android on my iPhone 3G, so I'm pretty sure that counts as third party firmware on an iPhone. In my opinion, the ubiquity of third party roms is a failure of the original product. I'm all for the ability to use them, but something is very wrong when they're as popular as they are.

As far as Apple vs Samsung, here's a major reason why I prefer Apple. There are of course others.

Customer support - If something goes wrong with my iPhone, I make an appointment online, show it to a genius who is friendly, speaks English well, and is fairly the knowledgeable. They do a few checks and hand me a new one. When something goes wrong with my laptop and I'm not near an Apple Store, they mail me a box with next day shipping and a next day shipping label to mail it back to them, they repair it and send it back out again the day they receive it, with next day shipping once again.

If my Galaxy Nexus arrives out of the box without working GPS, I call the Google Nexus support number and speak to a friendly, fairly knowledgeable american who does a few checks and then forwards me to Samsung. Where I speak to someone who does not speak English all that well, follows a simple script that does not show that they actually know anything about technology, and then forwards me to another Samsung person to setup the repair. Then I speak to another person over a terrible international phone connection who finally sets up the repair after having me do all the basic checks again. They then tell me to stay on the line for a recording of instructions on how to return my device and hang up. I wait a few minutes, no recording plays and I hang up. Luckily, I'm not an idiot and can handle the email instructions perfectly fine. So I return the phone with the ground shipping provided, which takes about a week, they then take about a week to fix the phone, and then ship it back with another week of ground shipping. In the end spending many hours on the phone and 3 weeks without my phone, luckily I have backups, but I don't expect most people to and I shouldn't need to use one in this case.



sivran
Opera ex-pat
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Irving, TX
kudos:1
reply to skeechan

said by skeechan:

Simply put, Apple CREATES the market for goods

Wait, stop right there.

That's right.

Apple is a marketing company.

And even their marketing strategy isn't innovative.
--
Think Outside the Fox.


skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
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Reviews:
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1 edit
reply to Simba7

It depends on the handset. The Galaxy Player/WiFi (mine was the import) has been troublesome from the beginning. Early on NOTHING worked with CM9. They just recently got BT working and last I checked lots of stuff like the camera still didn't work.

I got WAY better support from Motorola...even out of market factory ROMs where all right there on their support site for download. They also offered all the utils and even 'for dummies' instructions on how to use them them. I ran the au/KDDI ROM on my Xoom because the NA Xooms only shipped with English, French and Spanish support.

But I shouldn't have to run custom ROMs or hack on the device to get new features. The handset maker shouldn't abandon the platform on day one.



Rambo76098

join:2003-02-21
Columbus, OH
reply to skeechan

Dude, you're talking out of your butt. I don't even like Samsung, but who was the first to mass produce phones that utilize NFC? And which other phone can you splitscreen?



skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Clear Wireless
·Cox HSI
·Verizon FiOS

4 edits

Who gives a shit about NFC? Seriously? There is nothing revolutionary about a solution looking for a problem and it's already been done...it's called Bluetooth. People surrendering their wallets since they can buy EVERYTHING via NFC? Great, you get to unlock the phone, open the app, choose a payment method when you can much more quickly swipe a card you are already carrying in your wallet and never forget. Making a task LESS convenient isn't innovation.

NFC is one of those things that looks good on paper but in real life is completely impractical. For filesharing between phones, there are no shortage of 3rd party apps on either Android or iOS running on WiFi/3G/4G or via BT and a lot of them are cross platform so they'll work iPhone to iPhone, iPhone to Android, Android to Android or mobile to desktop. Again, it's already been done. And I would guess there are more Bump users than Samsung NFC users (meaning people who actually use NFC for file/information transfers).

Split screen? There were 3rd party apps on the platform doing split screen before Samsung implemented it in devices like the Galaxy Note. Again, Samsung sees what others were doing and implements the idea...even if they polish it up, it is still someone else's innovation. Samsung does evolution, not revolution and they don't create markets.

The only thing "revolutionary" that I have seen on the platform was the Transformer dock's pointing device; the Transformer dock actually made a the tablet good enough for productivity, a 1080P netbook with 14 hour battery life, laptop like productivity. Unfortunately the platform's productivity apps suck ass rendering the innovative idea of brining mousing to Android largely useless.



Rambo76098

join:2003-02-21
Columbus, OH
Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..

It's just funny - what you're saying about Samsung is precisely what Apple has always been known for. Taking ideas that belong to others, putting a little Apple spin on it, and then calling it their own. That's not innovation, that's copying.

I'll just leave this here:
»www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl···C25BM9E0



skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Clear Wireless
·Cox HSI
·Verizon FiOS

2 edits


I'll just leave this here
Again, Apple CREATES MARKETS for products, even if a similar product already exists. 2nd run companies wait for a concept to be proven as marketable, and then copy it (making small changes along the way). Samsung mobility, being the 2nd run they are, merely serves these newly proven markets after others show them how to do it (make a marketable product). Because Samsung mobile NEVER innovates, NEVER puts out anything revolutionary, they don't create new markets. Samsung has never released a product 180 degrees away from where the market is like Apple did with the iPhone or Microsoft did with Metro.