lutful... of ideasPremium
join:2005-06-16
Ottawa, ON Reviews:
 ·TekSavvy DSL
| Can't locate main water shut-off valve I want to replace 23 years old water wasting toilets and also add shut-off valves under each sink. However, I looked all around the basement but can't find the main water shut-off valve.
My hunch is that it is located behind wall panels in the finished area of the basement. I have an old magnetic nail/stud finder which shows some activity behind one area which could be steel clamps/nails holding the copper pipe.
I want ( a plumber ) to put a new shut-off valve where I can see the cold water pipe near the ceiling of the unfinished area. Could he turn off the water outdoors at the water meter to do this job? |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | said by lutful:I want to replace 23 years old water wasting toilets and also add shut-off valves under each sink. However, I looked all around the basement but can't find the main water shut-off valve.
Who built the place that there are no per fixture shutoffs?
said by lutful:My hunch is that it is located behind wall panels in the finished area of the basement. I have an old magnetic nail/stud finder which shows some activity behind one area which could be steel clamps/nails holding the copper pipe.
Where is the meter? How do they read it?
said by lutful:I want ( a plumber ) to put a new shut-off valve where I can see the cold water pipe near the ceiling of the unfinished area. Code illegal, the shutoff must be at the fixture. You can feel free to add more shutoffs whereever you want for maintenance, but there must be one at the fixture.
said by lutful: Could he turn off the water outdoors at the water meter to do this job?
I hope your toilets aren't fed from the gas meter. The FD chief will say you had some really bad chili last night. 
As for a sidewalk meter, I am not familiar with those so I can't comment. How do they not freeze in Canada? |
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 BubbaGIT-R-DONEPremium,MVM
join:2002-08-19
St. Andrews | reply to lutful
In our area and presume most areas of US, we can turn our incoming water off at the water meter. All the homes I've owned in TN, ARK and MS, the water meter is/was located at the street in front of our homes. |
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 cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7 | said by Bubba:In our area and presume most areas of US, we can turn our incoming water off at the water meter. All the homes I've owned in TN, ARK and MS, the water meter is/was located at the street in front of our homes. Every water meter I've ever seen in my area is indoors. It's never been outdoors. Then again, we have a 36" frost line so it would make things a little hard to look at on a monthly basis in the pre-RF days. |
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 SparkChaserPremium
join:2000-06-06
Downingtown, PA
kudos:3
 ·Verizon FiOS
| reply to lutful
Around here every house has a curb shutoff in addition to the home main shut off. You need one of these and a plumber.
»m.homedepot.com/p/5-8-in-x-60-in···0176507/
We had a pipe failure before the house shut off after 3 in of water in the basement we got it shut off at the curb 
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"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." - Aldous Huxley
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BubbaGIT-R-DONEPremium,MVM
join:2002-08-19
St. Andrews | reply to cdru
I digress then.... many areas south of mason dixon is out by street  |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | reply to cdru
said by cdru:Every water meter I've ever seen in my area is indoors. It's never been outdoors. Then again, we have a 36" frost line so it would make things a little hard to look at on a monthly basis in the pre-RF days.
There is one sidewalk meter on my block in NYC, but overall its very rare. In the pre-RF days, the meters had a cable going to an electrical connector on the outside of the building. For the sidewalk meters there was a plastic black contactless knob on the manhole cover. I assume the meter reader put a gadget over it to read it. |
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cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7 | reply to patcat88
said by patcat88:Code illegal, the shutoff must be at the fixture. You can feel free to add more shutoffs whereever you want for maintenance, but there must be one at the fixture. So are you using current NY code or NY code from 23 years ago to decide this code issue in Ottawa, ON? And are you sure the existing lines weren't grandfathered in under previous codes prior to that.
Regardless, what difference does it matter. If it doesn't have a shutoff now it doesn't have a shutoff. It doesn't change the fact whether it is or isn't against code then or now. And if he is asking to add one, he's fixing the problem anyways.
To the OP, I'd try to trace back from the water heater. Depending on how the pipes are ran you may or may not be able to find it. If it's ran in a finished wall, it could have been covered up. Or it was never there and there was only a shutoff at the street or where ever your main is. If there are similar houses to yours in the area built around the same time, you might check with those owners to see if they have one and where it's located. That might give you an idea if you do have to dig into a wall.
Worst case, a plumber or the city could shut off the line to the house so that one could be added. I've also seen a valve replaced added without shutting it off at the street by freezing the line to plug the water flow. Dry ice and liquid nitrogen have been used. Probably not something you'll want to do without experiencing though as Bad Things™ can happen if you mess it up. |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | said by cdru:Worst case, a plumber or the city could shut off the line to the house so that one could be added. I've also seen a valve replaced added without shutting it off at the street by freezing the line to plug the water flow. Dry ice and liquid nitrogen have been used. Probably not something you'll want to do without experiencing though as Bad Things™ can happen if you mess it up.
Sidewalk valves have a tendency to get paved over during sidewalk replacement in NYC. Rather than use dry ice (or better yet, dry ice, a garbage bag, and alcohol), you can the correct tool »www.ridgid.com/Tools/SF2500-Pipe-Freezer . Warning, price tag says you will be renting it. |
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 AVDRespice, Adspice, ProspicePremium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ
kudos:1 | reply to cdru
said by cdru:Every water meter I've ever seen in my area is indoors. It's never been outdoors. Then again, we have a 36" frost line so it would make things a little hard to look at on a monthly basis in the pre-RF days.
I have an indoor meter, at it has a ball valve on each side.
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--Standard disclaimers apply.-- |
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| reply to lutful
What is a water meter?
Heh, never had one of those. |
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| reply to patcat88
Not sure about NY but here in Ontario there is no code for putting shut off valves for each fixture. I have been to many 10 year old houses without the individual shut offs. Not sure if something changed recently.
Now-a-days meters can be read remotely. |
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 chambercPremium
join:2008-08-05
Irving, TX
 ·Time Warner Cable
| reply to cdru
said by cdru:said by Bubba:In our area and presume most areas of US, we can turn our incoming water off at the water meter. All the homes I've owned in TN, ARK and MS, the water meter is/was located at the street in front of our homes. Every water meter I've ever seen in my area is indoors. It's never been outdoors. Then again, we have a 36" frost line so it would make things a little hard to look at on a monthly basis in the pre-RF days. Very different in the south... I've never even heard of a water meter being indoors. They're always by the street in the front yard. |
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 chip89
join:2012-07-05
Independence, OH
·Cox HSI
| reply to lutful
Like others have said you need to go looking for it in your yard it will look like this |
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 JonPremium
join:2001-01-20
Lisle, IL
1 edit | reply to Bubba
said by Bubba:In our area and presume most areas of US, we can turn our incoming water off at the water meter. All the homes I've owned in TN, ARK and MS, the water meter is/was located at the street in front of our homes.
My mothers neighborhood, brothers and our old house in Chicago all had them outside. Usually on the parkway somewhere. I believe they're called a buffalo box here afaik. The house I'm in now has it inside at the meter in the basement but it must have been due to an upgrade at some point. The old one is still visible near the end of my driveway. |
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lutful... of ideasPremium
join:2005-06-16
Ottawa, ON Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
| reply to cdru
said by cdru:Depending on how the pipes are ran you may or may not be able to find it. If it's ran in a finished wall, it could have been covered up. After more hunting for nails/clamps with the magnetic stud finder, I think the water supply pipe goes down along the corner into the that unusual protrusion and then outside to the meter.
I will try to have a look at a clone of our house before ripping up the cover.
P.S. City of Ottawa guy said they could come and shut off the water when plumber is here. But we should not mess with the meter. |
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| reply to chamberc
all outside up here too. we do also have main shutoffs in the crawlspace though (at least all the houses i have been in that are 50yrs or younger) |
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cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7 | reply to chip89
said by chip89:Like others have said you need to go looking for it in your yard it will look like this
I would love to see a meter box like that in a location north of the line marked 20 on this map. |
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 KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | reply to lutful
Looks like a router to me. Ingenious, disguising the water line as a router. |
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 tschmidtPremium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
kudos:8
·G4 Communications
·Fairpoint Commun..
 ·Hollis Hosting
| reply to lutful
said by lutful: After more hunting for nails/clamps with the magnetic stud finder, I think the water supply pipe goes down along the corner into the that unusual protrusion and then outside to the meter. The meter is outside, that is a new one on me. How do they keep it from freezing?
/tom |
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