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MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4

Cable vs. DSL - which to choose?

For the purposes of this discussion, let's assume that in a few months Bell will have filed tariffs for higher speeds that TSI can get their hands on, and TSI will have begun transitioning to ATPIA service and its associated higher speeds.

Given TSI's ongoing issues with Bell and balancing AGAS vs. Rogers and its seemingly endless evening node congestion issues, which would you choose (let's keep the discussion to 50/10 services or lower speeds, which are the bulk of the customer base for all providers):

a) A faster connection upload/download (cable) at the expense of stability (ie. nightly congestion until Rogers either does neighbourhood node splits, or backhaul upgrades)?

b) A more stable but slower upload/download (DSL) and a mandatory modem rental? Would your opinion change if you could own your own modem?

c) How much price differential between nearly alike speeds would it take to make you choose DSL vs. cable or vice versa?

d) How much speed differential between DSL & cable - for the same money - would it take for you to choose one vs. the other?


QuantumPimp

join:2012-02-19
Reviews:
·voip.ms
Complicated subject.

I've traditionally gone with DSL because the access network, once qualified and working, is rock solid. My DSL service may have gone down a half-dozen times in the past ten years. This was not my prior experience with Cable. Stability and reliability is of primary importance.

Streaming services like twitch, netflix, and hulu are increasingly becoming more useful. I've been willing to lower stream quality to accommodate network congestion but this is becoming an issue. Congestion problems are regional and transient so it is really hard to pick an obvious winner. I choose the stick with the devil I know.

TSI is my provider because their product suits my need. I am not interested in bundling stuff that I don't want ... an area where Bell and Rogers refuse to compete. Right now I choose stability, value, then quality though I'm reaching a tipping point where poor quality will force me to re-evaluate.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7
reply to MaynardKrebs
 
Well Ex-Skews ME !

What if I am in Cogeco-Land ?

Nodes breathe more freely here.

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
said by Davesnothere:

 
Well Ex-Skews ME !

What if I am in Cogeco-Land ?

Nodes breathe more freely here.

Cogeco-Land covers what....5% of Ontario's population??

Nonetheless, I hear you.
It just seems that all network providers (incumbents) aren't getting much, if any, ahead of the demand curve.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7

2 edits
said by MaynardKrebs:

Cogeco-Land covers what....5% of Ontario's population??

Nonetheless, I hear you.

It just seems that all network providers (incumbents) aren't getting much, if any, ahead of the demand curve.

 
I have not researched the accuracy of that 5% stat.

Anyway, given that Cogeco HAS their own separate network and faces the same issues as Rogers, albeit on a smaller scale and over a wider geography, and do a significant amount of their own peering (as well as some for Rogers in the G-GTA, I hear), their network management still seems much better than that of Rogers, and mayhaps Rogers could learn something if they studied Cogeco's topology more, and worried about Bell's BS talking points less.

BTW, Cogeco serves communities of less than 4K pop to cities as large as Kingston or more, and their aggregated POI model seems to be working out just fine, if we use START Communications' partnership with them as an example.

And as usual, by dealing with Indie ISPs, we as consumers get to enjoy a more generous pricepoint with larger monthly usage caps and lesser UBB, as well as to distance ourselves from the politics & BS of whichever incumbent is applicable, which is ALSO an enjoyment in itself.

funny0

join:2010-12-22
reply to MaynardKrebs
said by MaynardKrebs:

For the purposes of this discussion, let's assume that in a few months Bell will have filed tariffs for higher speeds that TSI can get their hands on, and TSI will have begun transitioning to ATPIA service and its associated higher speeds.

Given TSI's ongoing issues with Bell and balancing AGAS vs. Rogers and its seemingly endless evening node congestion issues, which would you choose (let's keep the discussion to 50/10 services or lower speeds, which are the bulk of the customer base for all providers):

a) A faster connection upload/download (cable) at the expense of stability (ie. nightly congestion until Rogers either does neighbourhood node splits, or backhaul upgrades)?

b) A more stable but slower upload/download (DSL) and a mandatory modem rental? Would your opinion change if you could own your own modem?

c) How much price differential between nearly alike speeds would it take to make you choose DSL vs. cable or vice versa?

d) How much speed differential between DSL & cable - for the same money - would it take for you to choose one vs. the other?

--------------
downsides
rogers is known to be even more evil at throttles and port blocking and should they ever get rights to do it on tsi they would.

No static ips to run your own services
don't like renting a modem if i dont have too...

cable pricing is expensive
all i see in the threads of tsi is a TON of cable issues. Don't sound all that stable to me.

at best id try an upgrade maybe soon once i get a new modem
im told by another isp i could have got 14 megabit on this line so i might try a 10 megabit later on....go unlimited as always i hate idea of caps and overages
less to worry about
-----
think this way if you have kids what better way to allow them to learn tech te n to get your own webserver up and teach them all kinds a neat stuff they can do. By time they get to actual school for it they would be far far ahead and be very smart cookies EVEN if they do not get into tech its then somehting they know of and have skill with.

you cant get that via cable anywhere.....
and you only get it via isps that can offer static ips, via dsl. THE big boys don't want you to know how to do stuff....they want dumb peons that buy into there drivel and content.

AWFUL funny if i and a few good men got hard core into making our own content and cause were nto getitng a trillion a year in wages can compete big time....then you can even look at streaming via say some of those ovh servers with unlimited packages and make a buck...and suddenly if you get enough content you goto MARC with the idea and TSI people get a few IPTV offerings no one else can get and MARC might be able to trade to get more channels thus drive his costs down....

SEE i took business administration with major in information systems for a reason....it makes little sense to get a crippled cable account....unless all your requiring is to use it as a IPTV ergo a 25/7 account will do for HD. AND when h265 starts roling around things will get mroe fun as all the bandwidth will be needed is halved.

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to MaynardKrebs
I'm in Videotron-land, it has been aggregated for several years already.

I'm not going to order POTS for my next apartment, I do not want to pay $8 dry-loop and 10/1.5 cable is twice as fast as 6/0.8 DSL for $5/month less than dry-DSL or $20/month less than wet-DSL. Unless ADSL2 becomes cheaper with lower/no dry-loop charge, Videotron-TPIA seems like the most logical choice to me. (Though I have had bad luck with dying modems back when I was with Videotron so I'm a bit wary there.)


TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to funny0
The forums posts here are a lousy source to gather whether a service is good not. It's like asking any ISP to tell them how many calls they got to tech support complaining and judging soley on that. You only call tech support or post a thread mainly when you have a problem. There are very few threads with "Thanks for the service TekSavvy!"

I forget which poster it was that mentioned that % of people with issues or downed services can stay the same as the company grows but the number grows. Assume 10% of 10k customers years and years ago, that's 1000 with complaints, now 100k, 10 000, 1 million, thats 100 000. It can seem like a provider is plagued with problems but really it isn't. You can also see that that 10% seems pretty high at million, 100 000 people with open tickets or issues is a pretty high number.

The reviews section may be a better way to judge (all though still not the best source) since people sign up to post both good and bad experiences.

Experiences also vary widely by city and neighborhoods.

I also would not call cable internet service crippled, although DSL on paper is better, Bell has not done any better and keeping up with upgrades both their IP network and copper infrastructure that they're not really any better than Rogers or any other cableco in terms of stabiity and reliabiility. I've both in the past 17 years and I never suffered issues with either in London, other than Rogers will offer me speeds 10x or more faster than what Bell offers in most suburbs. Can only get Fibe 15 and 25 in the core of London and around it on major artery roads.

I'll give you static IP addressing but this more niche than the power users that need use their connection heavily. I get by fine with DynDNS.

Just like the cable issue threads you mentioned, the forum is littered with people experiencing issues on DSL as well.

The Mongoose

join:2010-01-05
Toronto, ON
For me, DSL's fatal flaw really is price...by which I mean real-world price.

Even if, on paper, DSL 25/10 and cable 32/3 were the same price...say, $50...there's a huge difference in monthly costs.

Add on dry loop and forced rental fees, and the real price for DSL in this case is closer to $65, while cable really is $50. If you amortize the cost of a cable modem over 2-3 years, it adds only about $3 a month, so $65 vs. $53.

Now, if DSL really was the same price...the EXACT same, in real terms..I do see advantages over cable, particularly in a world where Rogers controls the local nodes.