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signmeuptoo
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1 edit

Tablet Discussions

I move that tablet discussions be forever barred from the computer hardware forum. Tablets are the enemy of desktop technology. Take this to the Android or apple forums, please!


SysOp

join:2001-04-18
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Re: which tablet to get

time to start an ad-Hoc forum for tablet hardware reviews and discussions?


Octavean
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reply to signmeuptoo
said by signmeuptoo:

I move that tablet discussions be forever barred from the computer hardware forum. Tablets are the enemy of desktop technology. Take this to the Android or apple forums, please!

I have nothing against tablets as I have a few but if they want to discuss ARM based tablets I agree that some other forum would likely be better.


El Quintron
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reply to signmeuptoo

Re: Tablet Discussions

Tablets do have hardware in them... even if it ain't customizable, I think discussions of Hardware Spec inside said tablet is entirely appropriate for this forum...
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Octavean
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said by El Quintron:

Tablets do have hardware in them... even if it ain't customizable, I think discussions of Hardware Spec inside said tablet is entirely appropriate for this forum...

I hear what you are saying but I make a distinction about a tablet based on if it is ARM or x86 / x64 based. If its ARM I don't consider it a PC AKA Personal Computer,...for which this forum is named. If its x86 / x64 based I consider it a PC tablet and a PC is a PC regardless of form-factor.

Its not that big of a deal to me either way though.


El Quintron
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said by Octavean:

I hear what you are saying but I make a distinction about a tablet based on if it is ARM or x86 / x64 based. If its ARM I don't consider it a PC AKA Personal Computer,...for which this forum is named. If its x86 / x64 based I consider it a PC tablet and a PC is a PC regardless of form-factor.

Its not that big of a deal to me either way though.

True... my only beef with not talking about ARM based tablets is that the discussion of what's inside a particular tablet doesn't necessarily belong in the Android forum.

I'm all for keeping it open regarding specs and tablet ram/gpus etc.
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nonymous
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reply to signmeuptoo
So you can only have a PC if it is x86/ x64? What about a rasperry pi?


signmeuptoo
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reply to signmeuptoo
I think, for me, a computer is something that sits on a desktop or table or lap, and one does real work on, not superfluous texting and facebooking. Tablets don't deserve the honorific of being allowed here. Sure, they have their place, but, personally, I want to see this forum remain a haven for PC hardware enthusiasts for at least a few more years.

Am I saying you can't do real work on a tablet? No, of course not, yes, you can, but I wouldn't want to write thousands of lines of code, for instance, using a capacitive screen keyboard, when a real hardware keyboard and processor can do it much better, faster, and efficiently.

I think we need a general tablet forum, along with a Droid and Apple forums. But I feel it is heresy to talk about them here as they are the bane of the PC's existence.
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dbmaven
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Computer: an electronic device designed to accept data, perform prescribed mathematical and logical operations at high speed, and display the results of these operations.

There's more computing power in my tablet than I had to write complex business applications on years ago. As each generation of processor advances, the capabilities of smaller and smaller devices grows.

Simple solution - if you don't want to discuss tablets - move on to the next thread. Nothing's forcing anyone to read, or join in the discussion - on tablets or other computing devices.
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signmeuptoo
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Sorry, but I disagree, which is my right. If we can't give feedback on the direction a forum is going, what good is the site. So your a moderator, does that mean I have to do what you ordain? I am making a reasonable assertion here, please don't use your position to prevent discussion on this. I think it is reasonable to want to have a special forum for a new trend. VOIP is PC releated, but we have a VOIP forum. Macintoshes are PCs of a sort, but we have an Apple forum. I feel like I am being bullied here.
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dbmaven
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Bullied?
Really?

All I did was offer you a simple solution that's available to anyone - ignore the stuff you're not interested in. Just because I'm a moderator makes that "bullying"? I, too, am allowed to express my opinion - and that's all that was.

VOIP has nothing to do with PCs - it's about networking/the Internet. And while MACs are certainly PCs in every sense of the word, they are a pervasive subset of the universe of PCs - different enough, and with enough volume - to warrant a separate forum.

If you feel so strongly about this - start a thread in »Feedback
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norwegian
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I think they are a form on their own, and in due course the need for a forum specific will evolve I have no qualms about.
Even at that point in time when it does happen, the hardware of them is still worth a discussion here; however due to the inflexibility of modding them, topics will be low in volume here anyway I would think.

Which ever way it goes I don't think it will bother me, even when feeling in 2 minds about liking or disliking them. I see the purpose of them but do not see the need for using one.

I gave my daughter the tool of an apple computer instead of the iPad, there were too many bonuses of the computer. Tablets are limited still in their application. Give it time; if the scales tip that balance of hardware/software/size enough, who knows.

Apple II and IBM 386 were a lot different to anything now.
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Octavean
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reply to signmeuptoo
said by signmeuptoo:

Sorry, but I disagree, which is my right. If we can't give feedback on the direction a forum is going, what good is the site. So your a moderator, does that mean I have to do what you ordain? I am making a reasonable assertion here, please don't use your position to prevent discussion on this. I think it is reasonable to want to have a special forum for a new trend. VOIP is PC releated, but we have a VOIP forum. Macintoshes are PCs of a sort, but we have an Apple forum. I feel like I am being bullied here.

With all due respect, I'll simply point out that dbmaven seems to be doing everything reasonable to give this subject and those of whom that wish to speak on it a voice. Starting this thread was a good idea IMO. I think people are more then welcome to express there thoughts and ideas on this subject here,...

said by dbmaven:

Computer: an electronic device designed to accept data, perform prescribed mathematical and logical operations at high speed, and display the results of these operations.

There's more computing power in my tablet than I had to write complex business applications on years ago. As each generation of processor advances, the capabilities of smaller and smaller devices grows.

Simple solution - if you don't want to discuss tablets - move on to the next thread. Nothing's forcing anyone to read, or join in the discussion - on tablets or other computing devices.

I wont dispute the above definition of a computer. However, I do believe that such a definition can still apply to devices that do not fit the traditional mindset of a PC for most people in this forum.

For example, when I was an Electrical Engineering student a graphing calculator was basically a requirement. Most students at that time in my college chose the Ti-82 but there were some different models about.

Anyway, the Ti-82 could link to other Ti-82 models and share data, you could write programs to run on it, it could display some surprisingly advanced graphics and naturally it could perform advanced mathematical / logical operations,.....

For all I know the Ti-82 may have more computational power then whatever they were using to get to the moon. I still don't think of it as a traditional computer and I don't think its what people had in mind when the "PC Hardware Discussion/Reviews" forum was formed.

But again I don't feel all that strongly about it either way,.....

If some new advancements were made in ARM tech I might be tempted to post it here but that would be more due to not knowing what the most appropriate place would be,...


El Quintron
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said by Octavean:

I still don't think of it as a traditional computer and I don't think its what people had in mind when the "PC Hardware Discussion/Reviews" forum was formed.

But again I don't feel all that strongly about it either way,.....

For what it's worth I don't think discussions about Android, Windows or OSX/iOS are appropriate for this forum, but most tablets have cpus, gpus, internal hardrives and RAM, and some have more power than others.

I think Spec comparisons and value conversations would (in my mind) be appropriate for this forum.
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Octavean
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1 edit
Yeah, I hear you,...

I guess making the distinction between the different types of tables makes things clear for me but many people think "tablet" and automatically think "iPad".

These ARM devices are pervasive though,.....

My thinking is if you allow discussion of ARM based tablets here then there is little reason to exclude ARM based MP3 players or ARM based phones. They are very similar devises with the only real difference being the inclusion of a cellular subsystem (in the case of a phone and some tablets).

I just think it has the potential to be,.....messy.

I have an Asus Eee EP121 Intel Core i5 based PC Tablet running Windows 8 Pro RTM. There is no question in my mind that it is a PC. Having a touch screen and no physical keyboard doesn't change what it is.

I also have an Apple iPad 3rd gen, HP Touchpad (2x one running Android), Kindle Fire, iPod Touch, and iPhone but I don't really consider any of that suitable for this forum. If I could get Windows RT to run on one of my HP Touchpads I still wouldn't think it a suitable discussion for this forum but then I also wouldn't know where at DSLR it would be suitable,....

***edit***

BTW, I think some Ti calculators could run PDA programs which would have been a big deal to some geeks before the whole smart phone thing took off,.....

Ahhh,....remember Palm OS PDAs,......?


El Quintron
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said by Octavean:

Ahhh,....remember Palm OS PDAs,......?

I do, I wanted one pretty bad.
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dbmaven
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reply to Octavean
First - you nailed my thoughts about leaving this available to express thoughts. Thank you.

Second - the problem with definitions - real or perceived - about a "subject area" is that it's like trying to drive a nail through Jell-O.
What we've seen over 20 years, and which we will continue to see, is the constant morphing of what hardware/devices people use to perform "computing".

A classic example - where do you put Microsoft's "Surface" ?
Do you exclude it because it's not a "traditional PC" ?
Do you include it because it can run x86 programs (Windows 8)?
Is it a tablet - or is it a laptop?
Do you discuss it in "Microsoft Help" because their name is on it?

It's all pretty vague - and it doesn't "fit" cleanly anywhere.

Those kinds of things are only going to increase in the future...
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me1212

join:2008-11-20
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reply to Octavean
said by Octavean:

***edit***

BTW, I think some Ti calculators could run PDA programs which would have been a big deal to some geeks before the whole smart phone thing took off,.....

You can put doom on some Ti calculators.

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsN2JIRGHAo


On topic, I can see an ARM forum possibly being good.


Octavean
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reply to dbmaven
That's a great example. Perhaps you meant it as a rhetorical question but I'd be willing to venture an answer:

Q) Where do you put Microsoft's "Surface"

A) I would first attempt to be sure if you were referring to the Microsoft "Surface" running Windows RT on ARM or the Microsoft "Surface Pro" running Windows 8 Pro on x86 / x64. I think Microsoft added a degree of confusion when using the term "Surface" and a lot of people have difficulty making the distinction or perhaps don't even know its more then one device.


signmeuptoo
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Well, I think it would make deciding where a thread goes MUCH easier if all tablets had their own forum, with sub forums for the different OSs, much as VOIP has provider sub forums.

I am sorry, but I felt a little pressured from the comment. I really appreciate that this thread was created, and I thank the mod heartily for that, and with that said, I think giving a discreet forum, for the benefit of easier moderation work, might be a better justification for some rather than the perceived deleterious effect that tablets are having on PC sales.

I realize that my feelings can stir a reaction from some that I am asserting an "us versus them" thing, but in actuality, it's just that tablets are tablets, not really PCs, and that will become clearer as time progresses. For the enhancement of gaining more traffic to DSLR, a dedicated tablet head forum with sub forums for the different OSs might be a big bonus for the site owners, it could become the go-to place for tablets, much like this forum is one of the go-to places for home builders.
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Octavean
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It would be much easier to calculate taxes if the government didn't insist on collecting them in the first place. The easiest solution isn't always the right one.

A PC tablet (x86 / x64) is just as much a PC as a desktop, laptop or All-In-One system IMO but I don't see anyone insisting that there be different forms for all of the above.....although some forums may very well do this.

It's easy to lump all tablets together but it lacks subtlety and possibly understanding of how different they can be.


signmeuptoo
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So? Look at PCs. There is a WIDE variety, from laptops of hundreds of forms, factory builds, home builds, but when I saw to someone "PC Computer" they instantly understand what I am saying. I think, despite any obfuscation, that saying "tablet" gives people a clear idea of what I am talking about as well. Sorry, I disagree, but disagreement doesn't mean the end of a good friendship, right? Anyways, I stand firm in that I feel we need a tablet forum and sub forums.
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nonymous
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reply to signmeuptoo
Qatar's
On functionality and use a tablet will do almost as much as a pc. He k we finally went to smart phones. Mys wife got a samsung note 2 She loves. Now uses it more than the pc. So yes a tablet will cut into the same market as a pc for some. With windows 8 ms is betting a pc will act more like a large tablet. K


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reply to signmeuptoo
Tablets also combinations of some parts and easy to move and have a functionality of portability therefore it is in use an and perform almost all task.


Octavean
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reply to signmeuptoo
said by signmeuptoo:

So? Look at PCs. There is a WIDE variety, from laptops of hundreds of forms, factory builds, home builds, but when I saw to someone "PC Computer" they instantly understand what I am saying. I think, despite any obfuscation, that saying "tablet" gives people a clear idea of what I am talking about as well. Sorry, I disagree, but disagreement doesn't mean the end of a good friendship, right? Anyways, I stand firm in that I feel we need a tablet forum and sub forums.

Point taken,...

I will say that in the past there have been companies that attempted to sell computers as something else. Selling the computer at a loss to gain revenue elsewhere. Upon discovery that the product was actually a computer some people buy up the low priced computers and use them as such destroying or damaging the business model the company had intended.

The original Xbox was essentially an Intel Pentium III based computer and some people used it as such. The original Apple TV could be made to run OS X,.....and so on,...

The point I am trying to make here is that just because something doesn't look like a traditional computer doesn't mean that it isn't. PC tablets (x86 / x64) are IMO traditional computers,....

My Asus Eee Slate EP121 Core i5 based PC tablet has more in common and is more akin to a laptops or even desktop (in components and design) then what most people consider to be a traditional tablet (ARM based). The form factor shouldn't fool people but apparently I does,....

Now if all tablets should have their own forum and or sub-forum then by extension the "PC Hardware Discussion/Reviews" forum should be subdivided as well. The reason I say this is because how then can you have netbooks, laptops, ultrabooks, desktops DIY, desktops OEM, mini desktops, All-In-Ones and so on swimming around in the same forum? If you divide and subdivide one forum why then should you not divided and subdivide the other forum?


signmeuptoo
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Well, I guess that with PCs, they ARE already divided by OS, which is what I am suggesting under a master forum for tablets. Dividing tablets or PCs by hardware is just too difficult to do I think, example: I just ordered my first factory build in 18 years, a Lenovo laptop, a G580. When I say G580, it can mean lots of things, Windows 7, or maybe 8; Intel Pentium, or maybe i3, or maybe i5; Blue, black, Brown, and on and on. Very confusing when I tried to get reviews of it.

Now OTOH, a system running Linux, if it isn't a hardware issue, we take it to all things *nix...

Yes, we can be defeatist and say "oh, it's too difficult, let's do nothing and just see what happens" but doing nothing isn't usually a good idea in business. Failing to act can be fatal for a business.

The thing is, perhaps a revamp: a General computer forum, with sub forums of "Windows or Linux Desktop" "Apple Desktop and laptop" "Windows Laptop" "Windows tablet" "Apple Tablet" "other OS tablet" and finally "micro and other computing".

My instincts are that if we just leave things as is, at some point things will devolve for PC discussions and people will drift away from this forum and, much as like what has happened to the overclocking forum, it will more or less die.

Or... We get with the program, and, well, ACT!
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Join Teams Helix and Discovery. Rest in Peace, Leonard David Smith, my best friend, you are missed badly! Rest in peace, Pop, glad our last years were good. Please pray for Colin, he has ependymoma, a brain cancer, donate to a children's Hospital.


Octavean
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Well I'm not suggesting that nothing should be done but I am suggesting uniformity. If something is done, like to an equation for example, one should do the same thing to both sides of the equation.

said by signmeuptoo:

My instincts are that if we just leave things as is, at some point things will devolve for PC discussions and people will drift away from this forum and, much as like what has happened to the overclocking forum, it will more or less die.

Or... We get with the program, and, well, ACT!

I hear what you are saying and I don't think anyone here wants to see that happen with respect to the PC forum fading way. However, action one way or the other doesn't guarantee that wont happen anyway. Interest in traditional computers seems to have stopped growing and seems to be dissipating. Segregating forums wont have any effect on this trend,...


signmeuptoo
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A forum title is a welcome mat to those on the googles searching for help, knowledge, and comraderei. My point isn't segregation, that has an unpleasant connotation, kinda word science. What I am saying is that a forum mission tailored to welcoming discussion is needed.

What is the title of this forum? Does that welcome tablet owners? In their google/bing/yahoo searches, will micro computer builders or tablet owner come here, is the forum mission clear and inviting?

But if the forums were layed out in response to today's trends, maybe they won't fizzle out. Segregation? What an awful spin on what I'm trying to suggest, no offense, but that is kinda word spin.
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Join Teams Helix and Discovery. Rest in Peace, Leonard David Smith, my best friend, you are missed badly! Rest in peace, Pop, glad our last years were good. Please pray for Colin, he has ependymoma, a brain cancer, donate to a children's Hospital.


Octavean
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I hear what your saying and I don't totally disagree.

One of my favorite forums for my Asus Eee slate EP121 Core i5 based PC Tablet is over at tabletpcreview.com under:

Forum > Windows Tablet PCs > Asus > EP121 Slate

They also have:

Hardware
Accessories
Acer
Dell
Fujitsu
HP
Lenovo
Microsoft
Panasonic
Samsung
Sony
Toshiba
Other Brands

All with their own forums along with:

Apple / iOS forums and Android tablet forums

However, taking that approach here with Tablets only and not PCs seems unbalanced IMO. Under this new organizational logic PC hardware should be similarly sorted according to distinguishing characteristics / design,.....IMO.


signmeuptoo
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Well, I'm not the webadim, and understand what you are saying also. In time, computer hardware will be less prevalent, so this forum might not be as pertinent.