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Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
Premium
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS
kudos:5

1 edit

Using a managed switch with FIOS

I may be assisting someone with a changeover from their FIOS router to a different router as they have complex home needs.

We have BellFibreOP in my location so I am not completely familiar with the service in your area. The FAQ was most illuminating specifically options 6-8, »Verizon Online FiOS FAQ »What are the tradeoffs between the various router configurations

My question is would a managed switch between the ONT and the Router do the trick instead. An option not really discussed there I dont think. Setup woud be ONT via cat 5e to managed switch. Cat 5e from switch direct to STBs and Cat5e from switch to User Router (for internet).

The caveat would be the switch has to be capable of
a. 802.1q vlan traffic applying tags and setting up vlan ID
b. 802.1p being able to pass AND Tag with qos 4 for example.

The reason being that in our service, the ISP has created an internet VLAN which you have to use to join (VLAN 35), as well the supplied Actiontech Mac address is associated with your account so it needs to be cloned in a replacement router. VLAN 34 is designated as the vlan for IPTV. The tricky part here is that it needs bridged no nat access between their ISP server and the Stbs. The actiontech is programmed to be able to do this but 99.9 of other routers cannot.
In addition, to assigning VLAN 34 to incoming packets from the STBs the action tech also tags them with 802.1p level 4 (as anything lower is not accepted by the ISP server). The way this works is that the STB when turned on searches for the ISP server on VLAN34, talks to the server, gets assigned IP address and firmware updates etc. When you tune a channel it then accesses a multicast stream.

Okay long winded but just laying down why the switch.
Does this approach have any applicability to your FIOS type setup?
Does anyone know how the FIOS works to this level of detail?
(tis for FIOS in the fairfax county area).

Just for general info, for our specific brand of Bell FibrOp FTTH, a fellow developed a firmware branch of code for the Asus N56U that mimics the action tech functionality. He provides two selections within the firmware:
a. Asus does NAT and acts as main internet wifi router in which case, ports 1-3 are standard internet, port 4 is reserved for IPTV.
b. Asus only does IPTV in which case port 4 is again reserved for IPTV and port 3 is a passthrough port that you can attach to the Router of your choosing for the main router -all internet stuff, nat etc.
--
Ain't nuthin but the blues! "Albert Collins".
Leave your troubles at the door! "Pepe Peregil" De Sevilla. Just Don't Wifi without WPA, "Yul Brenner"

LlamaWorks Equipment



More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
kudos:31

Re: Want to switch from MoCa to CAT5, no STB's, just TiVo

said by Anav:

My question is would a managed switch between the ONT and the Router do the trick instead.

FIOS does not use tagged VLAN traffic on the WAN side.

Switches can be used on the WAN side if you have multiple IP addresses, but you didn't indicate that was the situation.

Managed switches and VLANs have been discussed with respect to option #8, but I don't know anyone that has accomplished that.

Need to know more about what you're trying to accomplish in in this situation.
said by Anav:

Cat 5e from switch direct to STBs and Cat5e from switch to User Router (for internet).

The FIOS STBs are MOCA only. They don't accept a cat5 connection. Your would still need a MOCA LAN bridge.

The STBs are also DHCP clients and expect to be behind a NAT router. On-screen caller id and remote DVR functionality also expect the Actiontec as primary, although option #8 does provide a work-around for that.
said by Anav:

for our specific brand of Bell FibrOp FTTH, a fellow developed a firmware branch of code for the Asus N56U that mimics the Actiontec functionality.

Would not be applicable to FIOS. Currently FIOS uses IPTV only for VOD (linear channels are QAM). Actiontec firmware is specific to VZ.
--
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.


Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
Premium
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS
kudos:5

Thanks more fiber. I understand now that the ONT supplies coax direct to the STBs and PVRs in the setup with FIOS and that the actiontech gets an ethernet (for internet) connection from ONT and a coax for the tv guide, ordering movies etc........

I understand there is no need for a switch scenario as I described (no working analogy that can be applied). I did figure out that there are some Trendent and Zyxel coax to ethernet converters that could be used in case one upgraded their STBs and PVRs to current ethernet standards (coax reminds me of Bones on Star Trek commenting on 20th century surgeons, "barbarians".

For your interest, for my application Im having a devil of a time to actually find a switch that TAGS data packets with 802.1p level 4.
Every switch Ive looked at uses their own proprietary mapping table to physically apply their own routing proirity. In other words they can read tagged data packets, and they translate it to their own scheme be it the same 8 level nomenclature or more often words, high med low etc...... For untagged data packets they can let you assign or map to the high low medium but this is NOT applying tagging its simply treating the packets as if they were tagged by applying their own routing priority schema.

I did have ONE QUESTION regarding option 8. It seems FIOS resets wan IPs frequently, does that make 8 messy? In terms of having to
a. definitely reset the Fixed WANIP of the action tech?
b. possibly reset the LANIP structure of the back end router?
--
Ain't nuthin but the blues! "Albert Collins".
Leave your troubles at the door! "Pepe Peregil" De Sevilla. Just Don't Wifi without WPA, "Yul Brenner"

LlamaWorks Equipment



More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
kudos:31

said by Anav:

the actiontech gets an ethernet (for internet) connection from ONT and a coax for the tv guide, ordering movies etc

To be clear, the ONT supports both cat5 and MOCA (coax) WAN connections (just not at the same time). VZ's standard install is MOCA to minimize cabling, but the ONT can easily be switched over to providing the WAN connection via cat5.
said by Anav:

I did figure out that there are some Trendent and Zyxel coax to ethernet converters that could be used in case one upgraded their STBs and PVRs to current ethernet standards

Not sure if you're referring to the Zyzel EOC350-TA/TS. I doubt those would work with FIOS. MOCA LAN bridges are really the simplest way to get an ethernet LAN connection in rooms that have coax.
»Verizon Online FiOS FAQ »Can I get an ethernet connection in a room with only coax?
said by Anav:

coax reminds me of Bones on Star Trek commenting on 20th century surgeons, "barbarians".

LOL. True, but more homes are wired with coax than cat5.
said by Anav:

It seems FIOS resets wan IPs frequently, does that make 8 messy?

IPs don't change that often, but they do change. When this happens you need to change the "public IP" on the third router in option #8. Putting the three routers on an UPS can help prevent some but not all IP changes (e.g. VZ reboots their edge router).
1) Unless you pay for a business account with a static IP, your WAN IP can change.
2) VZ does push firmware updates to the Actiontec router. Usually this will just cause a reboot, but they have been know to cause a hard reset which will lose any customization done to the router and return the router to the default 192.168.1.x subnet.
--
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.


Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
Premium
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS
kudos:5

Okay thanks much for your assistance.



SeeKnaY

join:2002-11-14
Westbury, NY
reply to More Fiber

said by More Fiber:

2) VZ does push firmware updates to the Actiontec router. Usually this will just cause a reboot, but they have been know to cause a hard reset which will lose any customization done to the router and return the router to the default 192.168.1.x subnet.

Thank you for this - I couldn't figure out why my LAN DHCP Table reverted to the default.