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prop

@d-infinitum.com.mx

using uhf for wifi transmition

i am in southern mexico and my isp uses a microwave system to provide internet service to many residents here.he says there is alot of available bandwidth on uhf since tv has gone digital and is exploring the use of uhf.what would this entail?thanks for any help



John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:8

Technically, it is completely possible, but the equipment would be very expensive.


LLigetfa

join:2006-05-15
Fort Frances, ON
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to prop

The frequency used limits the throughput so lower frequency = lower throughput. So, aside from TVWS being expensive, the fact that it has less bandwidth does not bode well with today's hunger for bandwidth.
--
Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and formal education positively fortifies it. -- Stephen Vizinczey



prop

@d-infinitum.com.mx

i have read that this is a very good solution for isolated areas of the usa where putiing up towers would be next to impossible.the fact that there are trees and mountains to deal withand that it is a good option to get internet to isolated areas.is there any truth to this?


ssprenge
Premium
join:2006-10-09
Chaska, MN
reply to LLigetfa

But is there any equipment even available to purchase?

What frequencies? Are they not proprietary?

I've seen claims that there are demo networks up by and running, but what frequency and equipment are they using? North Carolina for example.


LLigetfa

join:2006-05-15
Fort Frances, ON
kudos:1

Carlson is leading the market at this time.

»www.carlsonwireless.com/solution···and.html

The problem (besides cost) is the limits on EIRP and the limits on tower height.
--
Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and formal education positively fortifies it. -- Stephen Vizinczey



margioa
Premium
join:2007-04-06
Nicaragua
Reviews:
·deltathree

1 recommendation

reply to prop

said by prop :

i have read that this is a very good solution for isolated areas of the usa where putiing up towers would be next to impossible.the fact that there are trees and mountains to deal withand that it is a good option to get internet to isolated areas.is there any truth to this?

Maybe this can work for you as well? »www.wirelessinteractive.com/orion400/


aSic
application specific
Premium
join:2001-05-17
Wakulla, FL
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 recommendation

reply to prop

Ubiquiti XR1 comes to mind... although good luck getting one. They refuse to sell even to licensed users of the band. Its not whitespace, but it'd do.

»dl.ubnt.com/xr1_ds.pdf
--
Teamwork is a lot of people doing what I say.


public

join:2002-01-19
Santa Clara, CA
reply to LLigetfa

said by LLigetfa:

The frequency used limits the throughput so lower frequency = lower throughput.

Throughput is determined by channel width, not by frequency.
The problem is limited number of 20MHz channels at vhf.

public

join:2002-01-19
Santa Clara, CA
reply to John Galt

said by John Galt:

Technically, it is completely possible, but the equipment would be very expensive.

Wifi with a downconverter is not expensive. The problem is regulatory compliance.

lutful
... of ideas
Premium
join:2005-06-16
Ottawa, ON
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to LLigetfa

said by LLigetfa:

The frequency used limits the throughput so lower frequency = lower throughput. So, aside from TVWS being expensive, the fact that it has less bandwidth does not bode well with today's hunger for bandwidth.

Operating in disjointed 5-8Mhz wide gaps between high power DTV transmitters require very robust modulation (2-5 bits per hertz) but that still translates to about 10-40 mbps per sector.

The trick is to create a reasonable cost multiple-sector UHF basestation so that a whole bunch of them can be deployed to blanket a large rural area. Those UHF nodes could be interconnected using a very high throughput 5Ghz PtMP network.


John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:8
reply to public

said by public:

said by John Galt:

Technically, it is completely possible, but the equipment would be very expensive.

Wifi with a downconverter is not expensive. The problem is regulatory compliance.

I was speaking more to the relative costs. It can't approach the UBNT et al pricing now available.

The unit mentioned by margoia is a good example of a quality solution in that band.
--
Nothing makes an American want to do something more than telling them they can't.


LLigetfa

join:2006-05-15
Fort Frances, ON
kudos:1
reply to margioa

Do you have a statement of regulatory compliance for Orion? The last time I looked to them for wireless gear they did not have Industry Canada approval and they had no intention of getting it.
--
Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and formal education positively fortifies it. -- Stephen Vizinczey



John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:8

said by LLigetfa:

Do you have a statement of regulatory compliance for Orion? The last time I looked to them for wireless gear they did not have Industry Canada approval and they had no intention of getting it.

It's probably their intention to serve other markets rather than Canada/US/EU...


margioa
Premium
join:2007-04-06
Nicaragua
Reviews:
·deltathree
reply to LLigetfa

said by LLigetfa:

Do you have a statement of regulatory compliance for Orion? The last time I looked to them for wireless gear they did not have Industry Canada approval and they had no intention of getting it.

In some cases, here in Nicaragua and other C.A. countries, we are not too concern about regulatory compliance.
I have seen working wireless interactive products in several WISP companies and they have done the job. OP is from southern Mexico - IMHO I it might work for him.


prop

@d-infinitum.com.mx

can you tell me what they are using in nigaragua and how the speed is?thanks


LLigetfa

join:2006-05-15
Fort Frances, ON
kudos:1
reply to margioa

said by margioa:

...we are not too concern about regulatory compliance.

LOL
Wireless signal knows no borders. I'm right on the Canada/US border so I get to piss off two regulatory agencies.
--
Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and formal education positively fortifies it. -- Stephen Vizinczey


margioa
Premium
join:2007-04-06
Nicaragua
Reviews:
·deltathree

1 edit
reply to prop

said by prop :

can you tell me what they are using in nigaragua and how the speed is?thanks

I have seen Orion 2300 (throughput ~22 Mbps) & Orion 900 working on the field...

edit: just called a fellow WISP worker, he has confirm me that he has an orion 2300 running at a real throughput of 18 Mbps


Inssomniak
The Glitch
Premium
join:2005-04-06
Cayuga, ON
kudos:2
reply to LLigetfa

said by LLigetfa:

said by margioa:

...we are not too concern about regulatory compliance.

LOL
Wireless signal knows no borders. I'm right on the Canada/US border so I get to piss off two regulatory agencies.

You too eh.?

On a good day I can see Pennsylvania AND New York during some of my installs
--
OptionsDSL Wireless Internet
»www.optionsdsl.ca


margioa
Premium
join:2007-04-06
Nicaragua
Reviews:
·deltathree
reply to LLigetfa

Wireless Interactive response:

" The Orion 400 is not yet FCC approved. It is for international use only. It would be a product that you would have approve through your own countries procedure. We are not allowed to sell it here in the US, unless it is to be exported."



John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:8

Do you know what the pricing is (more or less)?



margioa
Premium
join:2007-04-06
Nicaragua
Reviews:
·deltathree

said by John Galt:

Do you know what the pricing is (more or less)?

Yes buddy, I was told by W.I. that the current sales price is @ $695.00


John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:8

So, ~10x the price of a UBNT Loco M5.

I like it when 'teh maths' is easy, lol.

The problem here in the US is that the same frequency range (460-500 MHz) is jammed packed with users, third world...not so much, if any at all.

I have a design in Panama and one in Costa Rica that might be able to benefit from this vendors radios. Lots of vegetation to deal with, of course. The objective is to move bandwidth into the hill regions. If I can do 5GHZ up into a distribution hub, then use the Orion radio on a 20 MHz channel to do PtMP to the villages, and using 2.4 GHz wifi to connect to the user, I'm thinking that might work pretty good.

A timely discussion, lads!
--
Nothing makes an American want to do something more than telling them they can't.



Inssomniak
The Glitch
Premium
join:2005-04-06
Cayuga, ON
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to prop

Found this surfing around. Don't know if anyone saw it or if its of any interest?

»www.marketwatch.com/story/worlds···13-01-23
--
OptionsDSL Wireless Internet
»www.optionsdsl.ca


lutful
... of ideas
Premium
join:2005-06-16
Ottawa, ON
kudos:1

I was going to post link to the actual lab URL when I mentioned IEEE 802.22 in the other UHF thread going on here: »Threat to WISP's and ISP's? Free Super WiFi FCC White Space

»www2.nict.go.jp/wireless/smartlab/index.html

BTW although they claim to be first "prototype" for 802.22, there are a few others in development. Sort of like 802.16 prototypes in early 2005.