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ruralhub

@apexcovantage.com

Way out of a rocket hub contract due to unusable service?

I live in a very rural area and have Rogers rocket hub, there is no DSL, cable or local wisp. It's rogers or xplornet. At first the rocket hub worked great (I was apparently one of the first subscribers in the area) but now it's virtually useless. The signal to the tower is 4 bars but the tower or backhaul is so overloaded and inconsistent that 99% of the time I'm lucky to get 0.2 mbps with latency in the 4 digits. It's slower than edge despite being connected at "4G." Same thing with my neighbour who has the rocket stick so it doesn't seem to be our equipment.

I've tried calling Rogers several times and have spoke to managers as well. They contend that as long as its working, no matter how unusable, they're fulfilling their part of the contract and I can't get out without paying termination fees. They have no timetable for a fix (it's been almost 7 months since it became useless) nor will they even admit anything is wrong.

Does anyone have any suggestions for a way out? Would the OOP or CCTS do anything?

yyzlhr

join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON
kudos:4
CCTS is unlikely to do anything as Rogers is technically living up to their end of their agreement. Their service is advertised as "up to" 7.2 or 21mbps depending on the equipment and plan you signed up for.

Can you get a rocket hub with Bell or Telus? I've seen the OOP waive ETFs in situations where they can't provide adequately provide service but their competition can.


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
Reviews:
·VMedia
reply to ruralhub
It's in their TOS, they say you have to pay them, but they dont have to provide service.

Document your calls time/date.
Contact the OOP, if no luck go to the CCTS
If still out of luck, break the contract, pay the fee, then sue them in small claims court.

They won't show, the lawyer will cost them more then they have to pay out.
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......


ruralhub

@apexcovantage.com
reply to yyzlhr
Nope bell and telus don't have towers here. It's literally Rogers or nothing for cell service.

I (along with everyone else in the community that has it) would like to switch to xplorenet satellite since Roger's has no plans to fix this. The maximum advertised speed is much lower than the rocket hub, but they're able to deliver. A few people have it and it's consistent and stable 24/7. It's even got lower latency than our sticks/hubs which should be impossible.


DS256
Premium
join:2003-10-25
Markham, ON
" It's even got lower latency than our sticks/hubs which should be impossible." Make sure it's the same Hub as yours. I recently spent the money to upgrade and it took me off the channels used by cell phones onto something else. It's suppose to be 4G and LTE ready. Not sure what's running on but I noted an improvement.


habskilla

join:2005-09-19
Moncton, NB
reply to ruralhub
Here's something you can try. "Move" to an area that doesn't have service.

Go to to FreePhoneLine.ca, sign up and create a local number for Winnipeg MB.
Setup FreePhoneLine.ca to permanently forward the Winnipeg number to your phone number.
Call Rogers and tell them you're moving to a fake address in Winnipeg and include the Winnipeg number.
In case Rogers calls to verify, the call will be forwarded to your phone and you can verify your fake move.
--
»speedtest.net/result/2032867059.png

yyzlhr

join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON
kudos:4
said by habskilla:

Here's something you can try. "Move" to an area that doesn't have service.

Go to to FreePhoneLine.ca, sign up and create a local number for Winnipeg MB.
Setup FreePhoneLine.ca to permanently forward the Winnipeg number to your phone number.
Call Rogers and tell them you're moving to a fake address in Winnipeg and include the Winnipeg number.
In case Rogers calls to verify, the call will be forwarded to your phone and you can verify your fake move.

That's not how Rogers handles cancellations when you move out of their coverage area.


habskilla

join:2005-09-19
Moncton, NB
Who's cancelling? He's moving to Winnipeg.

As you know and as the OP was clearly told:
quote:
They contend that as long as its working, no matter how unusable, they're fulfilling their part of the contract and I can't get out without paying termination fees
OK, let's play their game. Can Rogers provide service to my new address in MB? No? Then too bad for Rogers. You're not fulfilling the contract by providing service. No service no contract. Please terminate the contract without charging termination fees.

Please remember, the OP doesn't want to terminate his contract with Rogers. He simply wants a "usable" service for which he's paying for. Rogers is the one who's playing hard ball by smacking the OP around with the "contract". So I say, smack back and "move" to Winnipeg.
--
»speedtest.net/result/2032867059.png

yyzlhr

join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON
kudos:4
said by habskilla:

Who's cancelling? He's moving to Winnipeg.

As you know and as the OP was clearly told:

quote:
They contend that as long as its working, no matter how unusable, they're fulfilling their part of the contract and I can't get out without paying termination fees
OK, let's play their game. Can Rogers provide service to my new address in MB? No? Then too bad for Rogers. You're not fulfilling the contract by providing service. No service no contract. Please terminate the contract without charging termination fees.

Please remember, the OP doesn't want to terminate his contract with Rogers. He simply wants a "usable" service for which he's paying for. Rogers is the one who's playing hard ball by smacking the OP around with the "contract". So I say, smack back and "move" to Winnipeg.

Service providers have designed their TOS to ensure that they don't have to waive ETFs even if you move outside their coverage area. Rogers does waive ETFs if you move out of their coverage area out of good will, but there are specific requirements that need to be met, and they do not verify serviceability in the manner that you've described.


habskilla

join:2005-09-19
Moncton, NB
said by yyzlhr:

said by habskilla:

Who's cancelling? He's moving to Winnipeg.

As you know and as the OP was clearly told:

quote:
They contend that as long as its working, no matter how unusable, they're fulfilling their part of the contract and I can't get out without paying termination fees
OK, let's play their game. Can Rogers provide service to my new address in MB? No? Then too bad for Rogers. You're not fulfilling the contract by providing service. No service no contract. Please terminate the contract without charging termination fees.

Please remember, the OP doesn't want to terminate his contract with Rogers. He simply wants a "usable" service for which he's paying for. Rogers is the one who's playing hard ball by smacking the OP around with the "contract". So I say, smack back and "move" to Winnipeg.

Service providers have designed their TOS to ensure that they don't have to waive ETFs even if you move outside their coverage area. Rogers does waive ETFs if you move out of their coverage area out of good will, but there are specific requirements that need to be met, and they do not verify serviceability in the manner that you've described.

Excellent!
What is the proper way to "move" to an area not serviced by Rogers so that the OP can avoid playing termination fees?
--
»speedtest.net/result/2032867059.png

Cloneman

join:2002-08-29
Montreal
kudos:4
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·Bell Fibe
reply to ruralhub
I would try writing them a registered letter with documented speed tests/latency, if they even have a mailing address that people can use.

Once they see a serious person who took the time to prepare and mail clear evidence, they might change their mind.


rogersmogers

@start.ca
reply to habskilla
said by habskilla:

Excellent!
What is the proper way to "move" to an area not serviced by Rogers so that the OP can avoid playing termination fees?

By packing up and moving and even then Rogers could claim that you moved so you still need to pay because it was your choice.

technocar2

join:2009-05-29
Brampton, ON
kudos:2

1 edit
reply to Cloneman
said by Cloneman:

I would try writing them a registered letter with documented speed tests/latency, if they even have a mailing address that people can use.

They do have a mailing address but they simply require that you follow proper steps before mailing a letter do them but people are simply too arrogant to following the steps that's described on the rogers.com "Make a complaint" page.

Edit:
Office of the President
Rogers Communications
P.O. Box 36040
RPO York Mills Leslie
Toronto, ON M3B 0A3

OR

Office of the Ombudsman
333 Bloor St E 9th Floor
Toronto, Ontario
M4W 1G9

But they will not respond unless one follows all the steps.

RogersEric

join:2011-10-21
canada
Hello ruralhub,

My name is Eric from Rogers. I'm unable to send you a private message but, feel free to reach out to us via Twitter (@RogersHelps), on Facebook (»facebook.com/rogers) or from our website (»rogers.com/contactus).

We can certainly look into the situation with you.

Thank you very much,

RogersEric

ruralhub

join:2013-03-01
reply to ruralhub
Hopefully I can work this out without moving to Yellowknife (Rogers serves Winnipeg.) Thanks for the suggestions everyone!

RogersEric: I've sent you a PM. Hopefully you can help as the people on the phone were very unhelpful.

ruralhub

join:2013-03-01
reply to ruralhub
Just thought I'd post an update if anyone cares:

Rogers never got back to me here, so I reached out on socialmedia with the same information in the op and was told they couldn't help me. I don't understand why they even bother with rogershelps/facebook if the people can't actually help.

I'm doing the phone back and forth now and apparently the exact policy is as long as you're in the coverage map that's enough. Am I the one not getting this here? There are two components to any wireless service: tower to device and tower to network. If either aren't working there's no service. It isn't unreasonable to think I shouldn't have to pay ETFs when one of these components isn't working is it?

At least one of my neighbours has just eaten the ETF. I might too but it feels like I'm being screwed over. Still hoping the OOP comes through if not I may try the CCTS.


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
reply to ruralhub
There are laws of merchantability and fitness for purpose. Perhaps a trip to the courts might be appropriate.


anon user

@start.ca
reply to ruralhub
This is how some people i know dealt with this problem, it works for all providers.

-file your official complaints, document everything.
-cancel, and only pay what you feel is valid charges.
-Roger will sell your dead contract to collections agency.
-when the collection agency calls several months later, tell them you officially dispute the charges and for them to not contact you anymore.

It will be for so little money they will leave you alone, as it would cost more for a lawyer in court. The companies have so many disputes, they are no longer reputable for affecting your credit rating either, as far as i know anyway.


DS256
Premium
join:2003-10-25
Markham, ON
reply to ruralhub
One approach that has worked for me in the past has been to look up a related VP from their financial filings and send them an email. It appears there may be false advertising. They say there is coverage but if you can use it, that disputes coverage.

yyzlhr

join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON
kudos:4
reply to ruralhub
said by ruralhub:

Just thought I'd post an update if anyone cares:

Rogers never got back to me here, so I reached out on socialmedia with the same information in the op and was told they couldn't help me. I don't understand why they even bother with rogershelps/facebook if the people can't actually help.

I'm doing the phone back and forth now and apparently the exact policy is as long as you're in the coverage map that's enough. Am I the one not getting this here? There are two components to any wireless service: tower to device and tower to network. If either aren't working there's no service. It isn't unreasonable to think I shouldn't have to pay ETFs when one of these components isn't working is it?

At least one of my neighbours has just eaten the ETF. I might too but it feels like I'm being screwed over. Still hoping the OOP comes through if not I may try the CCTS.

That is absolutely a reasonable way of thinking. However, big corporations have always cleverly designed their TOS so that they have no obligation to you whatsover in this situation. I'm quite certain this is out of the CCTS's mandate as well. The only other option really as others have alluded to is litigation.


elitefx

join:2011-02-14
London, ON
kudos:2
said by yyzlhr:

The only other option really as others have alluded to is litigation.

Seriously?? Has Rogers been reduced to such a bottomfeeder lowlife POS outfit that the only option for dispute resolution is for the customers to spend thousands on a long protracted litigation?

I say go to your local court house and contact the district attorney and have them charge Rogers with FRAUD. This isn't a TOS issue, it's a willful intent to defraud the public.

And just because they're Rogers won't get them off the hook for that.........

yyzlhr

join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON
kudos:4
said by elitefx:

said by yyzlhr:

The only other option really as others have alluded to is litigation.

Seriously?? Has Rogers been reduced to such a bottomfeeder lowlife POS outfit that the only option for dispute resolution is for the customers to spend thousands on a long protracted litigation?

I say go to your local court house and contact the district attorney and have them charge Rogers with FRAUD. This isn't a TOS issue, it's a willful intent to defraud the public.

And just because they're Rogers won't get them off the hook for that.........

This is not just a Rogers issue, this is an industry issue. Every wireless service provider has this clause in their TOS. Lots of customers from many providers find themselves in the same situation as the OP every day, yet these particular parts of the TOS have gone unchallenged.


elitefx

join:2011-02-14
London, ON
kudos:2

1 edit
said by yyzlhr:

Lots of customers from many providers find themselves in the same situation as the OP every day, yet these particular parts of the TOS have gone unchallenged.

Well, it's all about "Consent". The Law says you can't consent to a criminal act. Rogers can't simply write a TOS and use it as carte blanche to rip people off. That's not the way the law works.

That's why I'm suggesting to the member to at least visit the Crown attorney, present the facts and let him decide if it's worth pursuing a criminal indictment. It won't cost anything (and unlike a lawyer) he'll have nothing to gain personnally.

Rogers TOS has been found to be "barely legal" in the past. Maybe this time they've gone too far in applying it.

yyzlhr

join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON
kudos:4
Although the OP's situation is unfortunate, what crime has the industry committed? If your service provider says you need to agree to our terms in order to use our service, and if one of the terms is that service is not guaranteed even within our own footprint, then what crime is being committed here?

These terms have been in place since day one, if it really was a crime, I'm sure some sort of enforcement action would have taken place already.


elitefx

join:2011-02-14
London, ON
kudos:2
said by yyzlhr:

These terms have been in place since day one, if it really was a crime, I'm sure some sort of enforcement action would have taken place already.

That's why we have a Criminal Justice System. Let those that deal in the Law interpret the Law. Hence, a visit to the local Crown Attorney, whose job it is to represent the victims in a given situation, is available.

A judge doesn't care if "These terms have been in place since day one". They care about the legalities of a GIVEN SITUATION. Maybe more victims will come forward, maybe Rogers has gone too far, it wouldn't be the first time that a criminal investigation was launched into big business.

Let the system do it's job. That's why it's there......It's not for us to decide.


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
This isn't necessarily a crime ... this is contract law ... contracts may contain terms that are untenable but are forced upon you ... these are generally considered unenforceable.