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jtl999
CEO of Actiontec Dev Team

join:2012-11-24
In the GVRD
kudos:4
Reviews:
·TELUS
·Shaw

[Business] Six Strikes included?.

A friend of mine is thinking about getting Comcast Business Class.
He is wondering if these plans are exempt from the "Six Strikes" rules that Comcast xFinity is included in.
Based on my research there is no data on this subject. Is there a clear answer available?


NetFixer
Freedom is NOT Free
Premium
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Reviews:
·Cingular Wireless
·Comcast Business..
·Vonage
said by jtl999:

A friend of mine is thinking about getting Comcast Business Class.
He is wondering if these plans are exempt from the "Six Strikes" rules that Comcast xFinity is included in.
Based on my research there is no data on this subject. Is there a clear answer available?

The "Six Strikes" rules are not really relevant. Comcast is one of the largest suppliers of Movies, TV shows, and Music. Do you really think that simply by paying for a business class HSI account, Comcast is going to give you free reign to do as you wish with their intellectual property?
--
A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.


owlyn
Premium,MVM
join:2004-06-05
Newtown, PA
reply to jtl999
The clear answer is don't do downloads that violate the copyright rules. Why is this even a question?


gar187er
I do this for a living

join:2006-06-24
Dover, DE
kudos:4
reply to jtl999
copyright is copyright.

the MPAA doesnt care if your on a business class connection or not.
--
I'm better than you!

ExoticFish

join:2008-08-31
Stuarts Draft, VA
reply to jtl999
It's still a copyright violation if you download illegal content on a business connection.
--
»www.VAJeeps.com | »www.ChinchillasForum.com


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA
reply to jtl999
said by jtl999:

Based on my research there is no data on this subject. Is there a clear answer available?

You did not research very hard.

Here, let me point you at the TOS and AUP

»business.comcast.com/smb/terms-conditions

Hum... very first bullet in AUP

quote:
Conduct and information restrictions

undertake or accomplish any unlawful purpose. This includes, but is not limited to, posting, storing, transmitting or disseminating information, data or material which is libelous, obscene, unlawful, threatening or defamatory, or which infringes the intellectual property rights of any person or entity, or which in any way constitutes or encourages conduct that would constitute a criminal offense, or otherwise violate any local, state, federal, or non-U.S. law, order, or regulation;

Yep. Still illegal to do illegal things, even with business class.
--
My place : »www.schettino.us


gwbuffalo

join:2001-12-08
Mokena, IL

2 recommendations

reply to jtl999
Wow, what a bunch of idiotic answers, none really even attempt to answer what is being asked here.

JohnInSJ, nice way to be condescending to the person asking the question then pointing to something that has nothing to do with the new "six strikes" policy. Hum... get a clue.

NetFixer, as usual, doesn't know what he is talking about either. The question had nothing to do with Comcast giving anyone "free reign" to their content.

The answer to the original question is yes, from what I've read the "six strikes" program will not be used on the business class connections. Think about it, that would mean one rogue employee could get the company's internet dropped and there are just too many problems with that. Also, what about the businesses that have a connection that they share with their patrons, like a coffee shop? You think they're going to lose their connection?

It's easy for Comcast, and other ISPs, to target the individual users and expect them to have some control over what happens on their connection, business lines make for a much stickier situation.

Wow, a real answer more than "don't infringe on copyrights," crazy!
--
»twitter.com/darrenoneill »alt-this.com

medbuyer

join:2003-11-20
kudos:4
said by gwbuffalo:

The answer to the original question is yes, from what I've read the "six strikes" program will not be used on the business class connections. Think about it, that would mean one rogue employee could get the company's internet dropped and there are just too many problems with that. Also, what about the businesses that have a connection that they share with their patrons, like a coffee shop? You think they're going to lose their connection?

Care to share where you read that?

So, Comcast would rather let it slide for business customers because you think it's rather inconvenient for the businesses themselves to lose their connection or there's just too many problems with that?

If they [businesses] can't implement good security measures on their network to avoid customers and or rogue employees dl'ing ILLEGAL stuff, then they shouldn't be allowing anybody access to it in the first place.

I have starter biz at home and I got my own network locked down really good. One more thing I need to do though, I need to make sure that users inside my network are warned not to DL illegal stuff.

said by gwbuffalo:

Wow, a real answer more than "don't infringe on copyrights," crazy!

now, this I agree....


gar187er
I do this for a living

join:2006-06-24
Dover, DE
kudos:4

1 recommendation

reply to gwbuffalo
nice try dude. the only thing offered from the six strike policy is that businesses with open wifi (cafe, coffee shops, etc) wont be held responsible.

none of our answers were idiotic.
--
I'm better than you!


pflog
Bueller? Bueller?
Premium,MVM
join:2001-09-01
El Dorado Hills, CA
kudos:3
said by gar187er:

nice try dude. the only thing offered from the six strike policy is that businesses with open wifi (cafe, coffee shops, etc) wont be held responsible.

Just playing devil's advocate here. But all someone on a business class connection has to do then is open up their wifi and then they can just claim that was the reason? Will this mean Comcast will require that businesses secure their wifi and provide an (accountable/loggable) way of backtracing who on their wifi network was to blame? Or stop providing free wifi? There are some subtle ramifications to this I think...
--
"I drank what?" -Socrates


plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:3
Not to mention, I know it is not a "requirement" that you are an actual business to be able to sign up for, and use, a business account.

Do you think Comcast may change their policy to enforce that now? If not, I could see a lot of residential customers making the jump to business class service in the same way people jumped to avoid the 250 GB per month download cap.

--Brian


pflog
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join:2001-09-01
El Dorado Hills, CA
kudos:3

1 recommendation

said by plencnerb:

Not to mention, I know it is not a "requirement" that you are an actual business to be able to sign up for, and use, a business account.

Do you think Comcast may change their policy to enforce that now? If not, I could see a lot of residential customers making the jump to business class service in the same way people jumped to avoid the 250 GB per month download cap.

--Brian

Funny you say that. A friend of mine in the Indianapolis area said in his region at least Comcast won't allow business class internet at a residential address. I don't know if it was just the person who spoke to or an official policy change. But yes, I could absolutely see Comcast do this.

On the other hand, I don't know what they would do to provide service to people who:

a. want a static IP
b. want to run a server
c. want a more reliable connection because they work remotely (teleworker)

Unless they create some kind of "premium" residential plan to cover the above, they'll lose a lot of business I'd imagine.
--
"I drank what?" -Socrates


gwbuffalo

join:2001-12-08
Mokena, IL

1 recommendation

reply to medbuyer
asjamias, a few places, including this post from a Comcast employee on their own forums:

"The program does not apply to commercial business internet service and does not block P2P traffic at all. The CCI initiative is applicable to residential service."
»forums.comcast.com/t5/Customer-S···U1595521

I am just postulating here, but I believe that Comcast, and most ISPs, feel they can treat residential customers as a person, even if there are multiple people at the address they feel that "someone" is responsible for what happens on the network. With a business, it becomes much, much harder to determine who is at fault, and as such there isn't much an ISP can do to target a specific person as being the person infringing on the copyright.

If you think that any business can really lock down their system to prevent illegal file sharing, you're dreaming. Say you did have a business with a few employees, you warned them not to share illegal content on P2P networks and they did anyway, now your businesses' connection gets cut off. What will you do? Say "thank you Comcast, for keeping the bad people from doing bad things!"?? No, you'll be suing them for cutting off the Internet access for your company and losing you business! Which brings us to another reason why ISPs don't like messing with business customers, if you cut a home user off there's no possible "loss of business" lawsuit waiting to happen where as with a business you can bet there will be one.

gar187er, really? "copyright is copyright" wasn't a meaningless answer to the question on whether or not business lines will face the same system? Seems like it was to me. The "six strike" system doesn't apply to ANY businesses, doesn't matter if they have open wifi or not. But, hey, nice try dude!
--
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gwbuffalo

join:2001-12-08
Mokena, IL
reply to plencnerb
said by plencnerb:

Not to mention, I know it is not a "requirement" that you are an actual business to be able to sign up for, and use, a business account.

Do you think Comcast may change their policy to enforce that now? If not, I could see a lot of residential customers making the jump to business class service in the same way people jumped to avoid the 250 GB per month download cap.

Doubtful, especially since Comcast will most likely make more money charging someone for a business line. They're doing their part here and playing along with Hollywood and the music industry. What this really seems to be aimed at is kids downloading off their parents' accounts and trying to "educate" people more than anything.

Of course, once you have three or more strikes on a user's account, it's just that much easier for the RIAA or MPAA to file a lawsuit against them and win.
--
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medbuyer

join:2003-11-20
kudos:4
reply to gwbuffalo
said by gwbuffalo:

asjamias, a few places, including this post from a Comcast employee on their own forums:

"The program does not apply to commercial business internet service and does not block P2P traffic at all. The CCI initiative is applicable to residential service."
»forums.comcast.com/t5/Customer-S···U1595521

so they won't apply it to Businesses who has wifi for customers...

m for sure, they have this in writing in their contract...

said by gwbuffalo:

If you think that any business can really lock down their system to prevent illegal file sharing, you're dreaming. Say you did have a business with a few employees, you warned them not to share illegal content on P2P networks and they did anyway, now your businesses' connection gets cut off.

I somewhat agree BUT, like I said above...

If the business can't lock it down, don't let anybody access it. May it be a 2 man business or 100 employee business, I would think that they could hire somebody to lock it down for them or hire a permanent IT guy to oversee their network. Unless, the IT guy himself is the culprit, then that's another question. And or you may have a very stupid employee that they didn't think it would cost them their job.

If they're not doing that, they are missing one of the basic principles of doing business, accountability.


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA
reply to gwbuffalo
said by gwbuffalo:

Wow, what a bunch of idiotic answers, none really even attempt to answer what is being asked here.

JohnInSJ, nice way to be condescending to the person asking the question then pointing to something that has nothing to do with the new "six strikes" policy. Hum... get a clue.

Business class has AUP verbiage that covers illegal use, and the 6 strikes system is how comcast will deal with infringement notifications.

Comcast does not give a rats ass the class of account. Infringement is infringement.
--
My place : »www.schettino.us

AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL
said by JohnInSJ:

Business class has AUP verbiage that covers illegal use, and the 6 strikes system is how comcast will deal with infringement notifications.

Comcast does not give a rats ass the class of account. Infringement is infringement.

Unless I missed an official notice or comment, I don't believe we know for a fact one way or the other whether the "Six Strikes" implementation will be applied to business customers or not. And a minor nit, its not an "infringement" - its an accusation of infringement, a big difference.


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA
said by AVonGauss:

its not an "infringement" - its an accusation of infringement, a big difference.

6 times. Yeah.
Violation of the AUP is grounds for termination of the agreement with ETF. You agree to that when you sign up.

So you maybe be right, maybe one strike on business class.
--
My place : »www.schettino.us


Chester2

join:2000-10-17
Menlo Park, CA
Reviews:
·Comcast Business..
reply to jtl999
Interesting article "Six ways pirates can get around the coming 'Six Strikes"

»blogs.computerworld.com/internet···-strikes

Switch to a higher priced business-class account with your ISP so your public Wi-Fi is considered “legitimate.” Jill Lesser, Executive Director of the CCI, claimed that “legitimate” businesses like Starbucks with free Wi-Fi would be immune to “Copyright Alerts.” Instead, “residential Internet accounts are the focus of our program.”
--
Craig
»CraigHarris.org My BLOG on Motorcycles, Computer Stuff & Deals.


NetFixer
Freedom is NOT Free
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join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Reviews:
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·Comcast Business..
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said by Chester2:

Interesting article "Six ways pirates can get around the coming 'Six Strikes"

»blogs.computerworld.com/internet···-strikes

Switch to a higher priced business-class account with your ISP so your public Wi-Fi is considered “legitimate.” Jill Lesser, Executive Director of the CCI, claimed that “legitimate” businesses like Starbucks with free Wi-Fi would be immune to “Copyright Alerts.” Instead, “residential Internet accounts are the focus of our program.”

Starbucks is not a very good example since AT&T operates the Starbucks WiFi hotspots. AT&T is of course not going to shut their own site down since AT&T is the ISP responsible for enforcing the CAS in this case.

And since this thread is about Comcast Business Class, a Comcast Business Class customer who is operating a public WiFi hotspot should be running a Comcast owned and operated WiFi hotspot (running a public WiFi hotspot on your own is against the TOS/AUP, so a CAS violation would be irrelevant). So once again, that would also obviously make such a hotspot in effect immune to CAS action since Comcast would also not be very likely to shutdown their own site.
--
A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA
reply to Chester2
Let's check the AUP for business class and HotSpots, so we can just cut to the chase:

First, you'd need to put in your agreement you intend to have open/public wifi:

quote:
resell the Service or otherwise make available to anyone outside the Service Location(s) the ability to use the Service (for example, through WiFi or other methods of networking), in whole or in part, directly or indirectly, unless expressly permitted by the applicable Business Services Agreement;
Second, even if you give away access, you are expressly responsible for whatever happens, even if a guest does it

quote:
II. Customer Conduct and Features of the Service

What obligations does my business have under this Policy?

In addition to being responsible for its own compliance with this Policy, your business is also responsible for any use or misuse of the Service that violates this Policy, even if it was committed by an employee, contractor, customer, or guest with access to your business' Service account. Therefore, your business must take steps to ensure that others do not use your business' account to gain unauthorized access to the Service by, for example, strictly maintaining the confidentiality of all Service logins and passwords. In all cases, your business is solely responsible for the security of any device it chooses to connect to the Service, including any data stored or shared on that device. In addition, your business is solely responsible for securing access to any Business Class Portal or other feature that provides administrative and account management-related features for your business Service account.

It is also your business' responsibility to secure the Customer-Provided Equipment and any other Service Location(s) equipment or programs not provided by Comcast that connect to the Service from external threats such as viruses, spam, bot nets, and other methods of intrusion.
So, the open wifi defense is covered in the AUP already. Which you read and sign.
--
My place : »www.schettino.us


Chester2

join:2000-10-17
Menlo Park, CA
Reviews:
·Comcast Business..
reply to NetFixer
You are correct in that Comcast Business Class isn't specifically mentioned in the article. It does state that the Center for Copyright Information is not targeting "business-class" accounts with CAS.
--
Craig
»CraigHarris.org My BLOG on Motorcycles, Computer Stuff & Deals.


plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:3
So then my theory could hold true. If you want to avoid the 6-strike law, switch from residential to business class. People did it to avoid the download cap, I don't see why they would not do it to avoid this as well.

--Brian


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA

1 recommendation

said by plencnerb:

So then my theory could hold true. If you want to avoid the 6-strike law, switch from residential to business class. People did it to avoid the download cap, I don't see why they would not do it to avoid this as well.

--Brian

Violation of the AUP is grounds for termination of service on business class. With ETF. You could avoid the 6 strike law and replace it with a more expensive 1-2 strike realitiy.
--
My place : »www.schettino.us


NetFixer
Freedom is NOT Free
Premium
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Reviews:
·Cingular Wireless
·Comcast Business..
·Vonage
said by JohnInSJ:

said by plencnerb:

So then my theory could hold true. If you want to avoid the 6-strike law, switch from residential to business class. People did it to avoid the download cap, I don't see why they would not do it to avoid this as well.

--Brian

Violation of the AUP is grounds for termination of service on business class. With ETF. You could avoid the 6 strike law and replace it with a more expensive 1-2 strike realitiy.



Yep; a very basic and simple fact that some in this thread seem to be going out of their way to pretend does not exist.
--
A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.


gwbuffalo

join:2001-12-08
Mokena, IL
said by NetFixer:

Yep; a very basic and simple fact that some in this thread seem to be going out of their way to pretend does not exist.

But again, a fact that has NOTHING to do with the original question. It wasn't "can sharing illegal content on a business line get you terminated" it was does the new "six strikes" program affect business class connections.
--
»twitter.com/darrenoneill »alt-this.com


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA
said by gwbuffalo:

said by NetFixer:

Yep; a very basic and simple fact that some in this thread seem to be going out of their way to pretend does not exist.

But again, a fact that has NOTHING to do with the original question. It wasn't "can sharing illegal content on a business line get you terminated" it was does the new "six strikes" program affect business class connections.

And the answer is "either it does, or its far less than 6 on business class" - honestly I think you get one warning on business class, and on the second DMCA violation notice traced to your account you're done.
--
My place : »www.schettino.us


camper
Premium
join:2010-03-21
Bethel, CT
kudos:1
reply to gwbuffalo
What concerns me about this pop-up stuff is --- I wonder how long before there is some malware that puts a "P2P warning" pop-up on the browser window instructing the user to click through to a malware download site?


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA
said by camper:

What concerns me about this pop-up stuff is --- I wonder how long before there is some malware that puts a "P2P warning" pop-up on the browser window instructing the user to click through to a malware download site?

Popups happen all the time, spoofing security/virus scanners and other OS-level alerts.

Why be concerned about this over the plethora of existing social engineering attacks?
--
My place : »www.schettino.us


camper
Premium
join:2010-03-21
Bethel, CT
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
said by JohnInSJ:

...Why be concerned about this over the plethora of existing social engineering attacks?

Because the customers will be getting notices from the ISPs "sanctioning" the new P2P pop-ups, which is a new twist in the social engineering tactics.

The question I see is whether or not the ISPs will be able to sufficiently distinguish a real P2P pop-up from a bogus one.

If the ISPs cannot do that, then the ISPs are merely creating a new attack vector into their customers' computers for the malware vendors to exploit.