1 edit | [DSL] A paying customer of more than 4yrs is not worth $25 So as many others noticed, the price drops appeared on the Teksavvy site a while ago.
Last week I checked all the new prices, checked all the fees listed at teksavvy.com and called to change my DSL speed.
Clearly indicated at the web-site, was a "Line Speed Change" charge of $25.
The word 'tier' doesn't appear anywhere, and there is no indication that going from 6meg service to 15meg service is anything other than a change of speed. The "Other Charges" tab of the service I want to buy lists only a line-speed change for $25.
However, the CSR tells me that going from 6 to 15meg is a change of tier and that's $50.
While I'd have no problem paying this if it were indicated clearly up front. I call this a shady bait-and-switch. There's no mention of this, and I suggested that they simply honour the line-change price and update the site to reflect the 'tier-change' pricing for the next customer.
As the CSR couldn't do this, I escalated to a supervisor and suggested that he honour the web price listed of $25. We discussed back and forth for a bit and two things were stated by the supervisor:
1. He could see how I could interpret the site to mean that I was changing speeds and not tiers and did not direct me to a page where tier-change prices were listed. So I believe we have a customer service supervisor who agrees that the customer has a valid point.
2. He then told me in no uncertain terms that he would rather lose me as a customer then honour the listed $25 price. In specific terms, he said that it wasn't worth $25 to keep me as a customer.
This is interesting to me as I have a colleague who earns about $11/yr per referral, so it would appear to me that a little more than every 2yrs someone at TSI values a customer at $25.
At this point I'm shopping for another provider. My set-up 4yrs ago didn't go well, and now, effectively my second interaction with them isn't going well either.
Semi-related, I should point out that the last two times I've had a customer complaint with both Bell and Rogers their CSRs agreed that I had a valid point and did what was necessary to make it right. And in both interactions I spent less time on hold than for this issue. So I guess TSI is "different" I'm just not convinced it's "in a good way".
I'm open to suggestions as to who might be a better alternative.
Thanks in advance.
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Edit: April 4, 2013
I've spoken to Andre and we've sorted this out; I'll be staying with TSI.
At the end of the day, they do care about their customers and reputation and this is a good thing. At this point I'm satisfied with the outcome: my 15meg line is scheduled for next Wednesday.
Thanks very much!
--danwforums
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| said by danwforums:So as many others noticed, the price drops appeared on the Teksavvy site a while ago.
Last week I checked all the new prices, checked all the fees listed at teksavvy.com and called to change my DSL speed.
Clearly indicated at the web-site, was a "Line Speed Change" charge of $25.
The word 'tier' doesn't appear anywhere, and there is no indication that going from 6meg service to 15meg service is anything other than a change of speed. The "Other Charges" tab of the service I want to buy lists only a line-speed change for $25.
However, the CSR tells me that going from 6 to 15meg is a change of tier and that's $50.
While I'd have no problem paying this if it were indicated clearly up front. I call this a shady bait-and-switch. There's no mention of this, and I suggested that they simply honour the line-change price and update the site to reflect the 'tier-change' pricing for the next customer.
As the CSR couldn't do this, I escalated to a supervisor and suggested that he honour the web price listed of $25. We discussed back and forth for a bit and two things were stated by the supervisor:
1. He could see how I could interpret the site to mean that I was changing speeds and not tiers and did not direct me to a page where tier-change prices were listed. So I believe we have a customer service supervisor who agrees that the customer has a valid point.
2. He then told me in no uncertain terms that he would rather lose me as a customer then honour the listed $25 price. In specific terms, he said that it wasn't worth $25 to keep me as a customer.
This is interesting to me as I have a colleague who earns about $11/yr per referral, so it would appear to me that a little more than every 2yrs someone at TSI values a customer at $25.
At this point I'm shopping for another provider. My set-up 4yrs ago didn't go well, and now, effectively my second interaction with them isn't going well either.
Semi-related, I should point out that the last two times I've had a customer complaint with both Bell and Rogers their CSRs agreed that I had a valid point and did what was necessary to make it right. And in both interactions I spent less time on hold than for this issue. So I guess TSI is "different" I'm just not convinced it's "in a good way".
I'm open to suggestions as to who might be a better alternative.
Thanks in advance.
Ya I know paying 50$ is kinda annoying, I had to pay it to.
But 6/0.8 to a 15/1 is a completely different technology.
One is ADSL Gate Way Access, and the other is ADSL2/2+ Fiber to the Neighborhood.
Although you'd think you are just changing line speeds. you are purchasing a completely different product. ADSL has a theoretical max 8 Mb it doesn't do 15 Mb. |
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| Hi BTC Kevin;
I've no issue with charges -- sure I'd like to pay less for everything, who wouldn't? But that wasn't the problem.
The issue I have is the bait-and-switch tactic and the apparent disregard they have for existing customers.
Had this been listed up-front, had they been honest, or had they simply agreed to charge as listed (and I suggest then update their price list) I would have had no issue.
I expect this sort of behaviour from the Old Boys, not someone claiming to be better.
Thanks. |
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 Mike2009
join:2009-01-13
Ottawa, ON
kudos:3 | Consider yourselves lucky, I paid $90 to move to ADSL2+ when it was first offered by Teksavvy. Just so you know, it's worth it.  |
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| reply to danwforums
They charge me +20$ for nothing new (same speed) .... 84.95$ total now ... |
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| The issue i would have is that the Supervisor as you said claimed your not worth $25 dollars.
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Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.
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yyzlhr
join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON
kudos:1 Reviews:
 ·Rogers Hi-Speed
| reply to danwforums
said by danwforums:Semi-related, I should point out that the last two times I've had a customer complaint with both Bell and Rogers their CSRs agreed that I had a valid point and did what was necessary to make it right. And in both interactions I spent less time on hold than for this issue. So I guess TSI is "different" I'm just not convinced it's "in a good way".
TSI is different in that the operate on extremely tight margins and cannot afford to hand out credits. If you switch to another TPIA, expect their approach in regards to monetary adjustments to be the same.
The big guys on the other hand operate on very large margins and will generally just cave in to a request for a credit adjustment of $50 or less in order to get you off the phone and move on to the next customer. |
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shaded
join:2010-10-02
Ottawa, ON | the supervisor should have said they can't give out a credit because of margins instead of telling him to go away and he's not worth it.
sounds like someone needs some supervisor training or a new job. |
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| reply to morisato
I agree; that's the second half of my re-stated issue: the "disregard they have for existing customers".
Thanks, |
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 HiVoltPremium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:15
·TekSavvy Cable
 ·TekSavvy DSL
| reply to BTC Kevin
Lets put website terminology & what the supervisor told you aside for a minute...
These charges are imposed by Bell in the wholesale tariffs... In a way, there are three levels of service offered by wholesale ISP such as TSI.
- Legacy GAS (Gateway Access Service), which is the plain 6/0.8M ADSL1 we've been used to for the past 10 years...
- FTTN ADSL2+, which the tiers are now maximum 15/1M. This is fibre to the neighbourhood, on ADSL2+ technology,
- FTTN VDSL2, which offers 15/10, 25/10 and 50/10, which is similar to ADSL2+ where a remote is in your neighbourhood, but uses different technology and very different modems.
Bell likes to charge for a change in between these levels of services, just like if it was a new order... TekSavvy has to pass this on, or be losing money for a while until they recover this cost. The profit margins on wholesale ISP services are slim, especially now with the capacity rates that they have to pay for their usage on the incumbents network.
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| reply to HiVolt
Re: [DSL] A paying customer of more than 4yrs is not worth $25 said by HiVolt:Lets put website terminology & what the supervisor told you aside for a minute...
These charges are imposed by Bell in the wholesale tariffs... In a way, there are three levels of service offered by wholesale ISP such as TSI.
- Legacy GAS (Gateway Access Service), which is the plain 6/0.8M ADSL1 we've been used to for the past 10 years...
- FTTN ADSL2+, which the tiers are now maximum 15/1M. This is fibre to the neighbourhood, on ADSL2+ technology,
- FTTN VDSL2, which offers 15/10, 25/10 and 50/10, which is similar to ADSL2+ where a remote is in your neighbourhood, but uses different technology and very different modems.
Bell likes to charge for a change in between these levels of services, just like if it was a new order... TekSavvy has to pass this on, or be losing money for a while until they recover this cost. The profit margins on wholesale ISP services are slim, especially now with the capacity rates that they have to pay for their usage on the incumbents network.
And I believe Andre or Marc explained on DSLr posts that changing products causes activation, and changing speeds on a product is speed change.
Legacy GAS -> FTTN ADSL2/2+ $50 Activation
Legacy GAS -> FTTN VDSL $50 Activation
FTTN ADSL2/2+ -> Legacy GAS $50 Activation
FTTN ADSL2/2+ -> FTTN VDSL $50 Activation
FTTN ADSL2/2+ -> FTTN ADSL2/2+ $25 Speed change
FTTN VDSL -> Legacy GAS $50 Activation
FTTN VDSL -> FTTN ADSL2/2+ $50 Activation
FTTN VDSL -> FTTN VDSL $25 Speed change |
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HiVoltPremium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:15 | Yeah exactly... What a clusterfuck, CRTC just let them do this garbage...
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| You can't expect them to eat all these fees and still stay in business. |
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Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
| reply to danwforums
Thing everyone should also remember is that these fees are all new and that TSI is still working out the kinks and the processes. If you don't want to pay the tier change fee and you think it was "bait and switch" tell them you don't want to change and ask them to update the web site to make it clearer. It's TSI. They probably will.
TSI isn't out to screw anyone out of their $25. It's just that the fees are complicated, annoying and imposed on them by outsiders and things aren't as clear as they could be.
If sticker shock over $25 is a worry maybe best to wait a month or two until all of this is well in place. |
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| reply to danwforums
Regardless.... the wording is confusing. Hopefully this thread will lead to someone from TSI reworking the wording on the website. |
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 TSI MarcPremium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:13 | said by graniterock:Regardless.... the wording is confusing. Hopefully this thread will lead to someone from TSI reworking the wording on the website.
Sure, the less confusing language looks like this;
Legacy GAS -> FTTN ADSL2/2+ $50 Activation
Legacy GAS -> FTTN VDSL $50 Activation
FTTN ADSL2/2+ -> Legacy GAS $50 Activation
FTTN ADSL2/2+ -> FTTN VDSL $50 Activation
FTTN ADSL2/2+ -> FTTN ADSL2/2+ $25 Speed change
FTTN VDSL -> Legacy GAS $50 Activation
FTTN VDSL -> FTTN ADSL2/2+ $50 Activation
FTTN VDSL -> FTTN VDSL $25 Speed change
(Just copied from above)
If everybody agrees that this is what it needs to say.. I'll make sure it gets changed...
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Marc - CEO/TekSavvy |
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| reply to HiVolt
said by HiVolt:Yeah exactly... What a clusterfuck, CRTC just let them do this garbage... Well, there is a plausible truck roll to switch the line between DSLAMs and truck rolls are expensive no matter how trivial work order might be. |
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Reviews:
 ·voip.ms
| reply to danwforums
said by danwforums:Clearly indicated at the web-site, was a "Line Speed Change" charge of $25.
Now that you have a better explanation do you still feel there was a bait-and-switch as opposed to information missing on the web page?
For a contract to be binding there must be an offer, acceptance, consideration, and an intention to be contractually bound. A web page is not an offer to sell ... it is nothing but advertising.
When you call to place an order it is you making the offer to buy, and the agent agrees to accept the offer. In this case the agent refused your offer based on internal pricing guidelines.
You can't claim this is like the situations we often read where agents accept an offer then someone else from billing comes along later and unilaterally changes the terms (i.e., the consideration). That is illegal and worth a fight. The situation you describe can be stressful, and an inconvenience, but is not illegal.
said by danwforums:2. He then told me in no uncertain terms that he would rather lose me as a customer then honour the listed $25 price. In specific terms, he said that it wasn't worth $25 to keep me as a customer.
Under stress are you certain you're not putting words in the agents mouth? Just a likely you gave an ultimatum like "$25 for a long time customer or else" and the agent declined. Just checking. |
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yyzlhr
join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| May not be a bait and switch, but the wording is certainly not clear.
Going from 6/512 to 15/10 would meet the definition of a "Line Speed Change" in the literal sense. The average consumer is not expected to know that they're switching between different flavours of DSL. It's hardly surprising someone would be confused and subsequently upset over the way it's worded. |
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