 no1ukn0wWhats This?
join:2002-01-24
Boerne, TX | Full Node? after 4 months of researching, complaining, testing, tweaking, tech tickets, etc, etc.. I have finally noticed 1 thing, any time after 1-2AM I get the speeds that I am capped at WITHOUT packetloss..
so my question is..
Would this be a over crowded node?
I don't know what is supposed to be a "good" number per node. I know that my problems started occuring one day. I mean one day it was good, next was HORRIBLE. From the techs that have come out I have learned a few things, this is what they have told me that stuck out in my mind.
Statement: "No one else is complaining in your area"
My thought: "Is this a lie? Maybe there is no one in my area that does nothing but check e-mail and surf and really dont notice the pl and slow speeds. Is it possible to be on the "tail-end" of the node and get horrible speeds compared to the others?"
Statement: "there are only 80 people on your node. Next day (after the problem was not fixed, claimed it was a bad modem for the 3rd time) we have been installing alot of modems in this area with no problems what so ever."
My thought: "they put to many people on the node."
From what I hear.. don't know how much truth it is.. they have a ds3, running around 1,000 people.. they have 90% of the modems capped at 384/128. But another thing that concerns me is this. On a regular basis I have been uploading large files.. 100megs+ and got over 1500k constant. I asked the tech how this is possible he said its a burstable cap. Could this "burstable cap" be killing them if a couple p2p kids are getting that fast of uploads on a constant basis?
Since there is no other isp in my area (actually there is "dsl 128/128, $50.08/month, 3 year contract, and 1 gig transfer limit a month") and the tech support of my isp doesnt know how to solve my problem I have to tell them what to look at... if I can get a hold of someone.
Wow after all that all I wanted to know is if my node was considered to be over loaded.. sorry for the long read.. and thanks to anyone that can help. |
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 DJPremium
join:2001-06-13
Columbus, GA | Let's see, I've read several questions of interest. Let's see if I can answer them to your satisfaction!
From your profile, it appears you're on a small regional ISP. If so, then there is the possibility that the network is overcrowded and is beyond the ISP's financial means to expand/improve service across the board. I don't know the financial health of your ISP, so there's a chance that I'm wrong.
From what I've read--thoroughly!--I believe it's an overcrowded network, not your node in particular. At times you may be experiencing a congested node, or an overcrowded network. You won't know which is the cause unless you run some tests.
"No one is complaining in your area." BULL CRAP! That is what they're trained to say. If you notice the repair trucks in your area a lot, then there's your answer. If they admit there's a problem, then they'd be required to fix it.
If you're too far away from the node, then your speeds could suffer from signal loss. That's very unlikely, though. Note that you get the same amount of allotted bandwidth if you live right by the node or on the end of the line. Distance from the node HAS NO EFFECT on bandwidth priority. Everyone gets the same slice of the pie.
There is no "good" number of users per node so to say. Every ISP has configured their network to handle so many people per node. It is up to the ISP to properly manage their network and add/split nodes when the user base grows too large and speeds begin to suffer. This costs a lot of money, and many smaller ISPs are hesitant to do so.
A DS3 connection provides speeds up to 45Mbps. For 1000 users, it would be easy to saturate that connection. If 11% of the user base download at 384k during peak time, the DS3 would be at maximum capacity. Any more users, and speeds begin to plummet.
If it's true that the upstream is burstable, than that could be the root of the problem concerning packet loss. Having a saturated upstream is far worse than having a slowed downstream path. If the upstream is clogged, then packets sent by the user will have a hard time getting to the backbone. Some packets will squeeze through, others will get lost and your downstream speed will suffer as a result. So if there's a bunch of P2P kids sharing files at 1500k, it's inevitable that everyone will experience poor performance.
Ask if your cable network is based on the DOCSIS protocal. It doesn't sound like it is, since a modem's upload isn't burstable on a DOCSIS compliant system. A DOCSIS modem will only give you speeds UP TO the given cap--on rare occasions you may see speeds slightly above the caps.
When you're experiencing packet loss, run a line quality test here on DSLReports. It'll reveal where the packet loss begins and hopefully ends. Please be patient when trying to run the test. Often times you'll get a "busy signal" so you'll need to keep refreshing the page until you're given a slot. Post your results here and we'll help you find the root of the problem. Good luck! |
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no1ukn0wWhats This?
join:2002-01-24
Boerne, TX | Thumbs up !
thanks for the help.. I have run some tests here are some links.
»/quality/nil/713249
Yes very small isp, actually only serves on my guess about 1000 people. I am almost positive that it is a DOCSIS network.. we are using sb4200 modems.. and I am pretty sure they told me that if I provided my own modem it must be DOCSIS compliant. I am starting to get very concerned though, I am constantly getting 700+ uploads!!! I know most that read this will say.. thats a good thing.. but not with the amount of PL that comes with it.
2002-03-29 13:41:07 Speed test (la) 240/745 kbps
2002-03-27 11:04:24 Speed test (la) 338/767 kbps
2002-03-20 21:44:36 Speed test (la) 236/747 kbps
2002-03-20 20:59:43 Speed test (la) 245/1139 kbps
but remember the cap is 384/128.. is it possible that the cap isnt working at all? I have used a program (forgot the name, its dos based) that showed me that the caps ARE there and they are set at that. Does anyone know how caps actually work?
As of the past week speeds have been fine, really never get below 200/700. Although sometimes it looks like this:
2002-03-25 23:23:09 Speed test (la) 35/3 kbps
In this case I really need the quailty over the speed, I get so much pl sometimes that my uploads/downloads time out. And of course online gaming is impossible, which really makes me mad 
Should I try to request being put on a different node? How hard is it to get put on or split a node? What about the caps, how is that possible?
Thanks again for the reply dkaley |
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DJPremium
join:2001-06-13
Columbus, GA | reply to no1ukn0w
Full Node? Nope, poor network configuration... Yep, the results you posted definitely indicate a clogged network. To get results like yours on a consistent basis is very rare. It's NEVER a good thing to have faster uploads than downloads. It's almost unheard of for a DOCSIS network to have burstable uploads.
By the way, the program to view modem caps is DocsDiag. Go to »homepage.ntlworld.com/robin.d.h.···ocsdiag/ to download it.
I find it very difficult to believe your modem has a 128k cap on it. It's not unusual for ISPs to occasionally send config files with incorrect caps. You stated that your ISP is using the new SB4200! WOW! Those modems just barely came out! But since that's the case, there is the good possibility that your ISP doesn't have a config file for those particular modems. Your modem may have a "generic" config file, which for the time being will prevent unregulated speeds. A completely uncapped modem would pull in speeds as fast as the node gives it! I've personally seen what an uncapped modem can do, anywhere from 20-30Mbps down and 6-10Mbps up!!!
In regards to changing nodes--not possible. Think of your cable line & node as your telephone line & telco central office. Your telephone line is hard wired to one CO. You can't have your line physically switched to another CO. Same with your cable node. Your node is located somewhere nearby in the neighborhood. Your internet connection travels to & from that node only. In order to be switched to another node, your ISP would have to run an individual cable line from your house all the way across town to another node. Ain't gonna happen!
It's also pretty obvious that you're not necessarily experiencing node congestion, rather network wide congestion. The only solution to this problem would be for the ISP to enforce those 128k caps, or obtain a faster backbone connection.
I remember when cable internet first came to my city 1999. My cable company used six T-1s, for a total speed throughput of 9Mbps!. Sure, speeds were great at first when there were only a few dozen users citywide. But as the subscriber base quickly began to grow, speeds began to suffer. Get this, my ISP was still using those six T-1 when there were almost 2,000 subscribers!!! It was only after speeds dropped below dial-up that we were upgraded to a fat-ass OC48 (155Mbps) in early 2001. Since then, service has been awesome! We're capped at 1500/128 and nearly everyone gets those speeds no matter the time of day. Ping times are consistently 25-40ms, and packet loss rarely exceeds 0%.
Before I forget, it should be mentioned that the only time you were close to the downstream cap was late morning & early afternoon. After that, more and more people are jumping online, browsing, downloading, trading, you get the idea! Remember, getting uploads that are 3-5 times faster than the downstream will wreak havoc on overall service quality. The DOCSIS protocal only functions properly when the download to upload ratio is at most 2:1.
Call your ISP, and see what is being done to insure that the caps are more strictly enforced. If you talk to somebody who seems clueless or doesn't understand what you're talking about, ask to speak with a supervisor. SOMEBODY there has to have a good idea of how the network is operated. Hang in there, these types of problems usually get resolved sooner or later. |
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no1ukn0wWhats This?
join:2002-01-24
Boerne, TX | Thanks for all the help. That DocsDiag was the one that I was using. And it has always been a 384/128 cap, although it seems that it is not enforced. Which still doesnt make sense to me. I check through the DocsDiag on a constant basis and its always 384/128. But I am still receiving those speeds.
Now on the other hand I did uncap my modem, and the config file they are using is generic, as it did have a commonly known password for the m5 file.
I will call on monday and ask them to inforce the caps. That sounds odd huh? A user that actually wants to be capped  |
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DJPremium
join:2001-06-13
Columbus, GA | reply to no1ukn0w
Re: Full Node? HAHA! I got a kick out of that one! It's sad when an ISP don't prevent its users from hacking into their modems. Obviously they haven't patched the security holes in their network! I figure if you were able to easily uncap your modem, then who knows how many others have done it too!!!
You're in a strange situation, I'll agree. Don't expect one phone call to make everything okay. You'll have to get other people you know with your ISP to complain as well. Good luck. |
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no1ukn0wWhats This?
join:2002-01-24
Boerne, TX | sigh I know.. its been almost 5 months now.. but the way I see it.. why uncap? If you already have 700-1200k up? lol.. I'm over at my moms house and she has the same cable service.. Same thing 300/780 .. This is really making me believe that none of the up caps are working AT ALL.
Motorola Corporation SB4100 Cable Modem: Hardware version: 0; OS: VxWorks 5.3.1;
Software version: 4.0.3p
Downstream channel ID = 1
Downstream channel frequency = 405000000 Hz
Downstream received signal power = 1.8 dBmV
Upstream channel ID = 25
Upstream channel frequency = 28000000 Hz
QoS max upstream bandwidth = 128000 bps
QoS max downstream bandwidth = 384000 bps
SigQu: Signal to Noise Ratio = 35.7 dB
Cable modem status = Registration complete
Upstream transmit signal power = 51.0 dBmV
Date and Time = unset
Configuration filename = bas.cfg
there it is.. and here is the test
Test running..........
** Speed 165(down)/754(up) kbps **
(At least 3 times faster than a 56k modem)
Logged result.
Finish.
Amazing isnt it? And remeber this isnt at my house!!! this is another modem on the cable system?! I think this is the root of the problem.
Sigh, I bet the don't know how to fix it.. maybe they will try to "update my modem software" again.. ya that will help.. you know it sure did help on my PL problems, along with those 3 wasted modems!
Anyone need a Job?!?! THESE GUYS NEED HELP!!@!!! |
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 meesterPremium
join:2000-06-03
Oklahoma City, OK | reply to no1ukn0w
Hey Just for the fun could you run a tweak test »/tweaks
Your speeds sure look a lot like mine before I did the tweaks.
--
Operates With Pride |
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no1ukn0wWhats This?
join:2002-01-24
Boerne, TX | Unfortantly I have tried with no success..
although.. my isp called me yesterday and said "we found the problem and we know how to fix it. We have to update the software on all the modems, we will be doing this at 2AM." That was 2AM this morning.. guess what.. same problems, and I checked the modem software.. it wasnt updated.. they are so confused |
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DJPremium
join:2001-06-13
Columbus, GA | reply to no1ukn0w
I'm glad to see that they've found a possible solution. Although I do believe modem software updates are done in phases. Give it a few days, and see if there's an improvement. If nothing happens, give them another call and see what's up. They heard your legitimate complaint and knew something had to be done. It sounds like they're taking this seriously and will make an effort to get it fixed. Keep us updated. |
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no1ukn0wWhats This?
join:2002-01-24
Boerne, TX | Well I ran two tests this morning
results:
Test running........
** Speed 42(down)/1132(up) kbps **
About modem speed!
Logged result.
Test running........
** Speed 204(down)/26(up) kbps **
About modem speed!
Logged result.
whatever they have done so far (if anything) has made it alot worse.. I can't get any work done.. sigh maybe one of these days! |
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| reply to DJ
In your cable systems headend they may combine several nodes to go to one internet server port. Thus the number of customers on YOUR node may have no bearing on the load the server port your ultimately plugged into has. This depends on their design. I would be surprised at the costs of equipment that they have 1 node per 1 internet return port. Also, if they do not maintain some form of balance of customers per port on the server, server speed can be effected, i.e. 200 on one port but only 38 on another. As per your node in the field, they used to figure that up to 500 homes and all their traffic demands, ie. TV, internet, IPPV, telemnetry such as alarms etc., could be served by one node. The problem is that the bandwidth ability of the node in the field isn't the same as the bandwidth abiility of the internet equipment. Your time frame does suggest it's bandwidth but you could have plenty of bandwidth but have users who've modified their modem caps to use more than their fair share at your expense. Your provider should be able to monitor this and cancel those abusive users. |
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| reply to DJ
A 1000 users on a DS3 is WAY below what any ISP is over-subscribing a connection at today. The standard is 4000 users on a DS3 unless there is no cap. 4000 dsl users on a DS3 is easy, cable would be lower than that due to the higher speeds of the end users for the most part. I had 2800 DSL users on a DS3, all were SDSL or IDSL, lots at 1.5 x 1.5 and the DS3 never peaked over 18 megs. Where is the packet loss occuring? Between you and the gateway, or beyond. |
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