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Bogen
Member
2014-Jul-27 2:07 pm
Fax and Modem used over VoIPHow is it that Vonage and Ooma seems to work with fax and modems whereas the other independent VoSPs have much trouble getting it to work? |
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 TrevAcroVoice & DryVoIP Official Rep
Premium Member
join:2009-06-29
Victoria, BC |
Trev
Premium Member
2014-Jul-27 2:09 pm
They control the servers and the CPE so everything is set as it should be.
When people hire a provider and bring their own equipment, it's likely not properly configured optimally. |
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 graysonf
MVM
join:1999-07-16
Fort Lauderdale, FL
1 recommendation |
to Bogen
Seems pretty reliable to me. I have faxed via GV, CWU, CC, and Circlenet. Only one of them was a bit touchy from time time. |
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to Bogen
said by Bogen:How is it that Vonage and Ooma seems to work with fax and modems whereas the other independent VoSPs have much trouble getting it to work? I've used the HP FaxBack System Test 1-888-473-2963 to test my VoIP.ms OBi202 setup a few times. Seems to work although I did not see the output on HP's end. OE |
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graysonf
MVM
join:1999-07-16
Fort Lauderdale, FL |
You can FAX to CC DIDs, even free ones, and they can also be set to accept FAXes as PDFs which can be emailed or downloaded. |
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 crazyk4952
Premium Member
join:2002-02-04
united state
Ubiquiti UniFi AP-LR
Polycom VVX300
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to Bogen
said by Bogen:How is it that Vonage and Ooma seems to work with fax and modems whereas the other independent VoSPs have much trouble getting it to work? I've never tried Ooma or Vonage, but I think faxing, in general, while using an ATA is just unreliable. I can usually send a 1-2 page fax using an ATA, but anything beyond that is pretty hit-or-miss. |
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TrevAcroVoice & DryVoIP Official Rep
Premium Member
join:2009-06-29
Victoria, BC |
Trev
Premium Member
2014-Jul-27 6:09 pm
said by crazyk4952:I think faxing, in general, while using an ATA is just unreliable. I can usually send a 1-2 page fax using an ATA, but anything beyond that is pretty hit-or-miss. You're entitled to think that, but I believe the opposite. I have lots of clients sending faxes daily in a business environment, up to dozens of pages at a time (ie. lawyers and accountants). |
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to crazyk4952
said by crazyk4952:I think faxing, in general, while using an ATA is just unreliable. I can usually send a 1-2 page fax using an ATA, but anything beyond that is pretty hit-or-miss. It could help to know the service and ata to identify a trend from your results. 'Fax' is noticeably missing from VoIP.ms' website, so there must be real difficulties with it. OE |
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crazyk4952
Premium Member
join:2002-02-04
united state Ubiquiti EdgeRouter Lite
Ubiquiti UniFi AP-LR
Polycom VVX300
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said by OzarkEdge:said by crazyk4952:I think faxing, in general, while using an ATA is just unreliable. I can usually send a 1-2 page fax using an ATA, but anything beyond that is pretty hit-or-miss. It could help to know the service and ata to identify a trend from your results. 'Fax' is noticeably missing from VoIP.ms' website, so there must be real difficulties with it. OE I used an OBi100 ATA with Callcentric, voip.ms and Anveo. I had 30/5 internet service through Charter. I could not reliably send a fax over 2 pages using any of the above services. |
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1 recommendation |
said by crazyk4952:I used an OBi100 ATA with Callcentric, voip.ms and Anveo. I had 30/5 internet service through Charter. I could not reliably send a fax over 2 pages using any of the above services. The OBi100 does not include the OBi202's 'T.38 Fax Relay for Real-Time Fax over IP'... not sure how much that and the other build differences might factor into fax results with the various services. OE |
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jobr
join:2004-10-21
Halifax, NS |
to Trev
Speaking of VoIP, lawyers and faxing, law firms all over the US regularly try to fax one of my toll-free DIDs (incidentally, a voip.ms DID), most recently two days ago. When I still had a fax machine attached, I'd get people's personal information faxed to me a few times a month.
And supposedly the reason lawyers still use faxes is that it's more secure... |
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 NetFixerFrom My Cold Dead Hands
Premium Member
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Pace 5268AC
TRENDnet TEW-829DRU
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to Bogen
said by Bogen:How is it that Vonage and Ooma seems to work with fax and modems whereas the other independent VoSPs have much trouble getting it to work? That really depends on conditions that are not always under the control of the VoIP provider or their CPE devices. I never had any problems with faxing using Vonage on my AT&T/BellSouth or Covad connections, but after I initially switched to Comcast Business Class (and was at that time forced to use one of their leased SMC gateway boxes), faxing became essentially impossible. I could occasionally send/receive a 1-2 page text only fax, but even that was very unreliable, and the fax would have so much dropout that it was often unreadable; multiple page faxes (especially with graphics) simply were impossible. After Comcast changed their policy that forced business class customer to use one of their leased gateways, I switched to a Motorola SB6121 modem and switches/routers that properly supported RTP QoS algorithms, and quality reliable faxing using Vonage was once again possible: » Update on solution for using Vonage for VoIP faxing (the network diagram shown in the previous review link is outdated, my current network diagram can be seen at: » www.dcs-net.net/image/DC ··· gram.gif ). |
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MangoUse DMZ and you get a kick in the dick.
Premium Member
join:2008-12-25
www.toao.net |
to crazyk4952
said by crazyk4952:I used an OBi100 ATA with Callcentric, voip.ms and Anveo. I had 30/5 internet service through Charter. I could not reliably send a fax over 2 pages using any of the above services. Besides the lack of T.38 which OE mentioned, the OBi100 also does not have configurable jitter buffer and echo cancellation. I'm not surprised it didn't work very well. |
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Adaptive jitter buffer is not great for fax.
I went with the OBI200, ported out my remaining Ooma number (faxes via g.711 by dialing *99 with Ooma at 9600 baud were hit and miss) over to CallCentric and enabled t.38. Even though CallCentric is cautious against pitching their service as the way to go for fax, it works extremely well and I no longer worry about the faxes going through.
I also set up my Color Laser MFP to use iFax through a service and that is by far the fastest fail free method, I set it to use ssl but some will argue that direct dialing end to end is the most secure. The Fax portion of the MFP portion is set to send either a tiff or pdf via an email server to their gateway. |
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to Trev
We are the same way. If you use our CPE that's managed by us most of your analog gear has a really high chance of working. If you want to use your own gear there is a 50/50 chance your stuff will work. |
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| battleop |
to crazyk4952
The key is consistent latency not low latency. If your latency is bouncing all over the place using something other than t38 for your codec it won't be reliable. |
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| battleop |
to crazyk4952
Charter has been very hit or miss for faxing for our customers. I've seen customer trace routes on Charter that have 20+ hops within Charter's network before it hits the public internet. |
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2 edits |
to Bogen
FYI, here's what the Grandstream HT701 ata manual says regarding fax:
"HT70X supports FAX in two modes: 1) T.38 (Fax over IP) and 2) fax pass through. T.38 is the preferred method because it is more reliable and works well in most network conditions. If the service provider supports T.38, please use this method by selecting Fax mode to be T.38 (default). If the service provider does not support T.38, pass-through mode can be used."
Edit: It looks like the OBi202 uses this setting to determine how to automatically switch from T.38 over to fax pass through, as required by the service provider(?):
Service Providers - ITSP Profile a - SIP - SIP::X_FaxPassThroughSignal = ReINVITE (default)
OE |
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to Bogen
Still trying to figure out where the OP came up with the idea that people are having trouble with fax anywhere else considering that neither Ooma nor Vonage even offers a real fax codec.
I prefer having my own equipment that I can control much of the settings and that supports t.38. VOSP blister pack systems are designed to replace voice calling, fax is always given as a "it might work using no compression" basis. There are services dedicated to faxing if that is a big factor. |
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PuffertyPerpetual Newbie
join:2014-07-07
Rockville, MD |
I would think the fax issue is somewhat mitigated by the commonly-found VoIP provider feature of E-Mail to Fax, no? |
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said by Pufferty:I would think the fax issue is somewhat mitigated by the commonly-found VoIP provider feature of E-Mail to Fax, no? How common is that feature among providers? |
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Probably not common but there is a email fax gateway I use from time to time called Ring Central. |
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PuffertyPerpetual Newbie
join:2014-07-07
Rockville, MD |
to josephf
How common is that feature among providers? VoIPo and PhonePower have it. I can't imagine the ivy-leaguers like Anveo, Callcentric and VoIP.ms don't have it. |
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VexorgAway
Anon
2014-Jul-29 12:13 am
Faxing can work ok... but you need to have a highly stable internet connection for it to work reliably. Jitter and speed flux can biff up the faxing experience.
Who do I have to fax anyway??? The 90's? Scan it and email it. |
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said by VexorgAway : Scan it and email it. Include a picture of a fax machine so they don't feel cheated.  |
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PuffertyPerpetual Newbie
join:2014-07-07
Rockville, MD |
Apparently in Japan, facing is still as ubiquitous as it once was here. Despite being so technologically advanced, they prefer to use fax for a lot of their business transactions. I find this to be a fascinating cultural phenomenon. |
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I was only partly kidding with my flippant remark. I have a feeling that the illusion of having received a piece of paper is strong for many people in all cultures. I've had close involvement with Japanese culture in the past, but wouldn't venture to say that the ubiquitous use of faxing is all cultural. You're likely right, but there could be other factors. Faxing is certainly simple, direct, and convenient. Regarding illusion, I see a very strong mental effect with the use of word processors to present a faux professional typeset document look. People respond to the "look" more than the actual text. I notice this markedly because I'm personally deep into actual text files with my use of DOS and UNIX command line. All cultures like their illusions. |
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 VexorgTR
join:2012-08-27
Sheffield Lake, OH |
I still prefer to send PDF's... since they are straight and the text doesn't go all grainy from the scan... |
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 toro
join:2006-01-27
Scarborough, ON |
to Bogen
I have been working for a fax related software product for the past 12 years and I have been hearing from day one that fax will disappear in the next X years (X taking values anywhere from 3 to 10) but that doesn't seem to be happening.
My guess the reason for this is the simplicity. Signed documents are not going to disappear anytime soon, and to send one by fax all you need is to stick the paper in the fax machine and dial the number. Most of the users of this forum are techies for whom is easy to scan and email a document, but for others is not so much. |
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VexorgTR
join:2012-08-27
Sheffield Lake, OH
1 recommendation |
Agreed.... Change doesn't come easy.
It's like the running of the bulls in Spain.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it isn't dumb. |
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