CenturyLink → [Qwest] Cable issue?

After I corrected the modem setting thing have improved, but there are still many issues.

Here are the statics from the modem.
DSL Status
VPI: 0
VCI: 32
DSL Mode Setting: MMODE
Connection Status: Showtime
Speed (down/up): 15869 / 889 Kbps
ATM QoS class: UBR
Near End CRC Errors : 0/0
Far End CRC Errors : 4726/0
Near End CRC(Within last 30 mins) : 0/0
Far End CRC(Within last 30 mins) : 0/0
Near End RS FEC : 0/0
Far End RS FEC : 806226/0
Near End FEC(Within last 30 mins) : 0/0
Far End FEC(Within last 30 mins) : 0/0
Discarded Packets(Within last 30 mins): 0
SNR Margin (Downstream/Upstream): 0/17
Attenuation (Downstream/Upstream): 8/16

I am unsure where to start looking to verify things on my end before calling support, and getting told to call some other company for CL support again.

EDIT
After reading this »Windstream DSL FAQ »Modem DSL Statistics? What do the SNR and ATTN numbers show me about my line?
It seems there may be a local issue with CL.
Yes I know this is not for CL, but I could not find one specific to CL as of now. The link is here for reference.

You could plug the modem into the test jack on your NID. That would rule out your home wiring. Also, what kind of modem do you have? I had a C1000A and it had a ton of FEC and CRC errors. Swapped it out with a Zyxel and everything was peachy.

Currently it is an Actiontec GT701D. It is not a modem from CL.
I have no completely ruled that out yet.

I am working on moving the modem closer to the NID, but for now I cant move it.
Currently the modem is in the network closet I would guess about 70 feet from the NID using 1 pair from a cat 5 cable for its connection. I cant get in the area needed to extend this cat 5 cable, and move the modem closer.

I think CL may have installed new cables about 10 years ago. I think I may be off on the time frame. However if it was not new cable that was ran then I will have to guess that they are over 20 years old.

I know the cable running from the NID to the modem is fairly new at about 2-3 years old. The cable was ran when this part of the house was built. The connection is also using a shuttle whole home DSL filter, but I forgot the model number.

Working on moving the modem, but it may take a few weeks because of cable rewiring. I can plug the modem directly into the NID, but doing that would prevent any computer from using the internet because there is no network access close by.

It seems the issues cant be fixed. I will just have to wait for a 2nd ISP in the area and hope they have better service.

can't be fixed by whom? CL? You?

Centurylink wont do anything, and I don't know what needs doing.

Move it to test only, plug it outside, report the same numbers as you did above.

If your SNR was "0" you would not have a connection. Therefore that reading must be inaccurate. What are your connection troubles exactly?

The reported SNR margin of 0dB might well be inaccurate, but note that an SNR and SNR margin aren't quite the same thing. It's entirely possible to maintain a connection with an SNR margin of 0dB. Not so likely with an SNR of 0.

you can always plug to the nid and use a smart phone or laptop to access via wifi

The modem is currently an Actiontec GT701D »www.actiontec.com/186.html
The main issue is an extreme amount of packet loss, and until that is fixed I cant determine if the other problems are part of that problem or a separate problem.

I am guessing there is 50-100 feet of cable in between the nid and the modem on the 2nd floor. Part of the reason for moving the modem is to add networking to ground level. The other part is to move the modem closer to the nid.

While I don't know the age of the phone line on the street I would be willing to bet that the phone line running from the nid to the phone box (maybe wrong name) is at least 20 years old.

new modem information
PPP Status
Session Time: 437hr41min36sec
Packets Sent: 26279544
Packets Received: 38192751

DSL Status
VPI: 0
VCI: 32
DSL Mode Setting: MMODE
Connection Status: Showtime
Speed (down/up): 15869 / 889 Kbps
ATM QoS class: UBR
Near End CRC Errors : 0/0
Far End CRC Errors : 10596/0
Near End CRC(Within last 30 mins) : 0/0
Far End CRC(Within last 30 mins) : 0/0
Near End RS FEC : 0/0
Far End RS FEC : 2007736/0
Near End FEC(Within last 30 mins) : 0/0
Far End FEC(Within last 30 mins) : 0/0
Discarded Packets(Within last 30 mins): 0
SNR Margin (Downstream/Upstream): 0/17
Attenuation (Downstream/Upstream): 8/16

People get mad when I say there nothing else I can try, but also can not accept that I can not connect the modem to the nid and use it.

I don't have $150+ to spend on a wireless bridge to allow internet access to wired only devices. It it hard to find a 3 foot phone cable here, and that says nothing of the 150-200 foot cable that would be needed to connect the modem directly to the nid.

If you really think spending about $200usd simply to connect the modem to the nid with devices that will never be used after that is a wise way to manage money I will just have to stop playing all online games. If you try and tell me that these games cost more then that you would be wrong, unless free somehow costs more.

No one said to plug into the NID and leave it there, no one.

People say to plug it in there to test the best case scenario for the wiring to your house, this excludes the internal house wiring.

The data you posted the second time, was your modem plugged directly in to the NID, by passing ALL interior house wiring?

No one said to plug into the NID and leave it there, no one.

Do you understand what we're saying here?

I understand what the test is for. The modem does not have wireless. I don't have wireless devices or a laptop because i don't want them. I could plug in the modem directly to the nid, and supply power but nothing could access even to the extent of seeing the web config. This kinda makes any possible improvement worthless.

The only thing that changed between the data I posted was using the web interface to reboot the modem, but it was not unplugged. I did not copy the uptime for the 1st set of information.

No I am not saying I would be leaving it there, but the main issue is packet loss. By that I mean if I were to try and play any online game and it takes 3+ times telling the game to do the same thing before it actually happens.

Yes I do understand what people are saying, but i doubt people here understand what i am saying.

I also would not be surprised if the cable running from test box? to the nid is the original cable ran when the area first got phone service. I don't know when that was, but that part of the house is over 100 years old. I can promise that this part of the line has not been replaced in the last 27 years.

I have been testing things, but I cant move the modem closer unless I run cat 5 to the old part of the house. That is also needed to add networking to that part of the house.

I have now tried replace the pone cable to the wall, but I the information ready before my last reply.
PPP Status
Session Time: 8hr39min13sec
Packets Sent: 577223
Packets Received: 675154

DSL Status
VPI: 0
VCI: 32
DSL Mode Setting: MMODE
Connection Status: Showtime
Speed (down/up): 12122 / 889 Kbps
ATM QoS class: UBR
Near End CRC Errors : 0/0
Far End CRC Errors : 1/0
Near End CRC(Within last 30 mins) : 0/0
Far End CRC(Within last 30 mins) : 0/0
Near End RS FEC : 0/0
Far End RS FEC : 251/0
Near End FEC(Within last 30 mins) : 0/0
Far End FEC(Within last 30 mins) : 0/0
Discarded Packets(Within last 30 mins): 0
SNR Margin (Downstream/Upstream): 0/17
Attenuation (Downstream/Upstream): 7/16

For now I am not going to comment on the speed. If the modem has negotiated a speed that is too fast would this cause packet loss? I am guess it could. In this case the modem was negotiating a speed that was 3 Mbps faster then advertised speed for the service.

In the 8 hours after a reset today there seems to be less errors, but time will tell.

Move the modem, move the PC, run a power extension cord.

Until you plug the modem into the NID directly, the numbers are meaningless.

This is what I mean people here don't understand what I am saying. Everyone is insisting that I can plug the modem into the nid and use it.

I cant, its not I am not willing to. It really is that I cant. I know that people don't know how the the wires are ran here. However i do and what I have been saying about the modem and nid is correct.

While you ma be willing to move your Desktop PC, keyboard, mouse, and monitor. I am not willing to risk my PC. Believe it or not I have one PC and it is my gaming PC.

I am not wiling to move the PC outside to use for hours because it will take hours to find out if there is or is not packet loss with the modem connected there. IN those hours I am not willing to risk $4K by moving my Gaming PC out there.

I also doubt that anyone will believe the cost of my PC so price it out your self.
MOBO = ASUS P9X79 LE
CPU = Intel i7-4930k
RAM = 8x8GB DDR3 1333mhz
GPU = Nvidia GTX 660 x2 (next to be upgraded)
PSU = 1KW Thermaltake
HDDs = 2x2TB Raid 0 1x1.5TB For Windows
Monitor = ASUS VG236HE
Keyboard = Logitech G510s
Mouse = Logitech G500s
This PC is also water cooled, I don't remember those parts.

I know you still wont believe me that I can not connect the modem there use it, but I cant. Again the problem is packet loss, and yes I know that this can be cause by many things.

Here are a few for example
The PCs Firewall. Turned off.
The Cable from the PC to switch A (maybe the wrong term but you get the point)
Switch A.
The cable from switch A to switch B.
Switch B.
the cable from switch B to the DSL modem.
The DSL modem.
The Cable from the DSL modem to the NID.
The Cables From the NID to the DSLAM. This one might have a different name but you get the idea.
Any cable or piece of network hardware from here to the server that is connected to.

The only cable I cant test is the cable running in the walls to the nid. The layout of the rooms would require a cable that is about 1.5-2x longer then the cable that is ran in the walls. Like I keep saying I know why it is a recommended test. However that simply know that does not change the fact I cant test it with the network setup that is here.

I have said that I need to run new cable to connect the old part of the house, but that only gets angry responses. Again you don't know the layout of the building here, and cant tell me that I don't need to run new cable to move the modem closer to the nid for any reason. If I could fit in the atic this would have been done some time ago.

So unless there is something else that can be suggested until I can run the new cable I am correct that I can do nothing to fix this now.

Without ruling out interior wiring problems, the number you list mean nothing. You have to rule out interior wiring problems, if there are any.

NO one said to leave your PC outside, no one, not me, no one.

Follow these steps if you want to get the modem stats that would give us details.

1) run a power cord to where your NID is.
2) take your desktop to where the NID is.
3) plug the DSL modem directly into the NID.
4) disconnect all house wiring to the NID.
5) power on the modem
6) power up the desktop (which is located next to your NID)
7) run it for 5 minutes, download or stream something
8) gather the modem stats
9) take it all back inside

All can be done in less than 20 minutes.This is the ONLY cable that you need to test and rule out the problems with, as we have said.

Another option is to put the DSL modem outside (for 5 MINUTES), run a long CAT5 cable to your PC. They can be upto 100 metres in length, less than $12.

»www.monoprice.com/Produc ··· format=2

As this site has a super poor quote system.

Without ruling out interior wiring problems, the number you list mean nothing. You have to rule out interior wiring problems, if there are any.

I know this, but I am dealing with packet loss. 20 minutes is not even enough time to test for packet loss.

NO one said to leave your PC outside, no one, not me, no one.

Nor am I, but it will take hours to test for packet loss even regardless of where the PC is located.

I know how it is done, and that has nothing to do with why I can not connect the modem to the nid.

All can be done in less than 20 minutes.

No it cant.

here is what I would have to do to move my computer.
1. Unplug the Power supply.
2. Drain the water cooling system.
3. Unhook all 3 monitors, even tho 2 of them are normally turned off they are still connected. I also doubt the number of monitors effect the internet connection.
4. Unhook the monitor.
5. Move the PC, monitor, keyboard, and mouse out side next to the nid.
6. Alter the water cooling for a shorter loop.
7. Leak test the new water cooling loop.
8. Fill the loop.
9. Bleed the air out of the loop.
10. Run extension cables.
11. Hook up the PC.
12. move the dsl modem outside and connect it.
13. Run at least 3 hours of tests.
14. Repeat steps 1-5
15. Alter the water cooling loop back to its original state.
16. Repeat steps 7-9.
17. Move the modem back to its original location.

This process with out actually testing anything will take at least 1 hour.

This is the ONLY cable that you need to test and rule out the problems with, as we have said.

I know, but you cant seem to understand that.

Another option is to put the DSL modem outside (for 5 MINUTES), run a long CAT5 cable to your PC. They can be upto 100 metres in length, less than $12.

I have already said that I could basically do that and also add networking to the old part of the house. Doing this would allow the modem to be much closer. However no on here can listend to this, or fathom how it could help.

Again I know what test are for what, and why they help. It is not my fault that people reading this cant read what I type and must assume that I now nothing.

Again there is nothing I can do to fix this. I have not and am not saying nothing can be done. I have been and am saying that I can do nothing. believe it or not there is a difference in saying that i can do nothing, and nothing can be done.

As clearly and simply as I can state it, this is what is being suggested. Is there something preventing you from being able to do this?

Get a long Ethernet cable, can be up to 328 feet long. Run it out a window from the current modem/router location around the house to the NID. Use an extension cord to get power to the NID. Disconnect the modem and take it outside to the NID. Connect the phone cable to the test jack at the NID. Connect the power to the modem. Connect the long Ethernet cable to the modem. Connect the other end of the long Ethernet cable to the router inside the house. If necessary, put the modem under a bucket (or similar container) to keep it dry.

This will allow you to get the attenuation and SNR numbers from the NID that are needed to determine if your house wiring is part of the issue. It will also allow you to do all the testing you need without moving your PC.

An alternative to what is listed above, is to get a long Cat5e or Cat6 cable (as long as needed) and run it around the house from the NID through the window to where the modem is located. Put a RJ11 jack on one end to connect the modem. Connect the other end to the NID wiring point and disconnect the existing house wiring. Compare the attenuation and SNR numbers to the readings from using the house wiring. This will allow you to do all the testing necessary without moving the PC or the modem.

I'm fairly certain you will find that your existing house wiring is part of your issue. The usual solution is a whole-home DSL filter at the NID with a new wire run to connect the modem. This eliminates the noise and interference picked up by the old wiring, while still allowing it to be used for telephone service through the house.

I will say this again there is a whole home dsl filter. there is also only one "phone" connected to the phone line. And by phone I mean a Cisco SPA3102 »www.cisco.com/c/en/us/pr ··· dex.html VOIP adapter.

I am not sure what shuttle model filter it is anymore. I am guessing it is this one »www.hometech.com/hts/pro ··· 9a1.html or one that looks just like it.

If it were as easy as people here keep thinking it is for me to string a cable out a window or other things I would have done it before posting the op. People are trying to tell me that I am clueless, and they don't know what I am capable of. Here is my question. Why bring it up if you will not accept that I do know what I am doing even if I do not use the terms and phrases you expect?

PS
Maybe you can explain (as you think I know nothing) why nothing but the connection speed the modem negotiated has changed and both the Far END CRC errors and the Far end RS FEC error counts have dropped to almost none.

Tell us, and we will leave you alone. What is preventing you from stringing a long cable around the outside of the house from the NID to the current modem location to do some testing?

I have said many times in this thread, but no one can believe it. Also moving the modem now will not help anything because it no longer shows far end errors, or other errors. I will not post the numbers because as everyone is telling me the numbers are useless.

You are still insisting that you don't know what my house is like or what I am capable of, and yet you refuse to believe me when I post these things. Why do this if you are going to refuse to listen to or believe what you are told?

So how do you know you have packet loss?

Good question.

When using the internet it was needed on a regular basis to click the same link 2-5+ times to load a web page. One of the games I play reports packet loss during game play. This alone is not why I say it is packet loss. I also do not trust the modem stats page.

If there is a better method to verify this besides moving the modem I can try that. I can not move the modem unless I also add networking to the old part of the house and that can not be done for a while.

Moving the modem is the only way to confirm whether or not the problem with your line's signal (the problem that's creating those FEC errors) is inside your home (which you're responsible for fixing) or outside of your home (which CL is responsible for fixing.)

Although, if you're *only* having FEC errors, and they've slowed down anyway, and your line is syncing at 12-15 megs, then I don't know if CL will think that there's a "problem" -- other than the fact that your downstream SNR reports as 0, it looks like you're on a very good line.

Have you got another DSL modem on hand to do some testing with? I would be interested in seeing if the SNR is reporting as 0 in error, or if there's some customization or configuration on your modem being used to lower the SNR to encourage syncing at a higher speed. (Purportedly, SNR of 0 will "work" on ADSL and ADSL2/2+ but it's a very bad idea, so hopefully it's just an error in reporting the stats.)

You can buy wireless DSL modems (ZyXEL PK5001z, or ActionTec GT784, for example) for very inexpensively. A retailer near me has the GT784 on sale for like $40, for example. I would recommend having a second one on hand anyway, just because CL likes to blame the modem, and likes hearing you've tried a second one or tried at the demarc.

I run across an old modem, but I am not sure if it works. I have been looking for power supply for it. When I find the power supply I will be able to at least get the line stats from it. I have also lined up a laptop I can use for a short amount of time, and when I can use that I will be able to test other locations.

This Post is mainly for me as a way to keep track of the modem status in regard to tests, and changes I am making.

PPP Status
Session Time: 92hr16min58sec
Packets Sent: 4237633
Packets Received: 5476326

DSL Status
VPI: 0
VCI: 32
DSL Mode Setting: MMODE
Connection Status: Showtime
Speed (down/up): 12122 / 889 Kbps
ATM QoS class: UBR
Near End CRC Errors : 0/0
Far End CRC Errors : 80/0
Near End CRC(Within last 30 mins) : 0/0
Far End CRC(Within last 30 mins) : 0/0
Near End RS FEC : 0/0
Far End RS FEC : 11944/0
Near End FEC(Within last 30 mins) : 0/0
Far End FEC(Within last 30 mins) : 0/0
Discarded Packets(Within last 30 mins): 0
SNR Margin (Downstream/Upstream): 0/17
Attenuation (Downstream/Upstream): 7/16

Here is the i told you.

With modem connected to nid thanks to borrowed laptop.
PPP Status
Session Time:0hr7min22sec
Packets Sent: 1561
Packets Received: 1840

DSL Status
VPI: 0
VCI: 32
DSL Mode Setting: MMODE
Connection Status: Showtime
Speed (down/up): 12122 / 889 Kbps
ATM QoS class: UBR
Near End CRC Errors : 0/0
Far End CRC Errors : 0/0
Near End CRC(Within last 30 mins) : 0/0
Far End CRC(Within last 30 mins) : 0/0
Near End RS FEC : 0/0
Far End RS FEC : 0/0
Near End FEC(Within last 30 mins) : 0/0
Far End FEC(Within last 30 mins) : 0/0
Discarded Packets(Within last 30 mins): 0
SNR Margin (Downstream/Upstream): 0/17
Attenuation (Downstream/Upstream): 7/16

EDIT
Typing with one hand and holding a laptop in the other is not easy.
This is the same modem simply moved to and connected to the nid. It also shows that what I have been saying all along has been correct that it is not an issue with the cabling on my side at least.