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mrkrupa
join:2007-06-27
Washington, DC

mrkrupa

Member

[Home Networking] Can't reconnect after losing wan connection

Netgear 3500l v1 running tomato_raf. Earthlink DSL service with zyxel 660 modem configured as full bridge. I have a 6mbs up connection that works pretty well some of the time. The SNR can get quite low and I have had EXTENSIVE conversations with India (farmed out customer service). I don't have any filters on the line; I do have voice through the earthlink package but don't use it unless I want to fax. I went to the trouble of running the line to my modem directly from the entry point of the house so I know it's clean.

Sometimes I lose wan and dhcp does not reconnect even though the dsl sync light is solid. I read the tomato logs and see that I lose the wan and that it tries to connect. I have rebooted everything and it comes back. The latest trick is to disconnect the dsl line (telephone from wall) until it loses sync and then plug back in. That gets me back online.

It seems pppoed on the router is confused; perhaps the modem is not reporting something. But the way I understand it the router doesn't know anything about dsl, it just sees an ethernet connection. Therefore, why isn't the ethernet connection getting reset when the dsl resyncs?

I want to get an openwrt router because I read about a feature they included in the newer builds that seems to address something like this problem. But since it's down at a lower level than I am familiar with I have to guess.

My first thought is to go back to router mode on the modem and see if it occurs. I suspect the netgear/tomato pppoe isn't fully compatible with the modem end. It can only respond to anticipated problems and this isn't one of them.

I read through the zyxel user guide found on this site link and learned a bit. I hate to give up the tomato features but I think using the modem pppoe might give me some new insight.

I had a crazy idea to use my 3g ipad as a channel to actuate a cutoff switch so that I could reset the dsl line remotely. But that seems like a less elegant solution than achieving acceptable reliability.

Anybody familiar with this problem? I am going to solve this if I have to get an EE degree in the process.

Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium Member
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30

Doctor Olds

Premium Member

To gain access to the Modem in Bridge Mode you can do something like this. Then you can read your DSL Stats and perform remote resets.

PPPoE DSL Modem Passthrough with Tomato
»gist.github.com/justinga ··· /2589004
mrkrupa
join:2007-06-27
Washington, DC

mrkrupa

Member

Thanks for the reply Doctor. I've been reading your helpful comments for years.
I have had that set up and find it useful to get the stats on the modem. But once I get into this predicament the link no longer works. I believe this is due to the way the bridging of the modem lan is done. So I can no longer reset the dsl link from the cli in a terminal, for example.
I need to be able to "see" the status results when the dsl link is down.
So either the pppoe on my router is not robust (can't determine the link status) or the dsl sync program incorrectly reports its status.
My understanding of the dsl connection is that it presents what appears to be an ethernet connection to the pppoe app. So I am guessing that if the sync goes down but comes back on its own it is not completing this process.
I am learning how to set up the tomato router to be a switch so that I can use the modem's router features eliminating the additional layer. I am guessing that in this way I can observe the error messages and line stats regardless of the pppoe connection on the tomato router.
Have you seen this before?
Thanks again.
Paul

Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium Member
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30

Doctor Olds

Premium Member

Something else is bad as the DSL being up or down has nothing to do with the Ethernet link from the Router Ethernet WAN port connected to the ZyXEL Modem Ethernet LAN port. You are losing the connection there and not on the ZyXEL WAN/DSL port.
mrkrupa
join:2007-06-27
Washington, DC

mrkrupa

Member

researching further I found some descriptions on the cisco forum regarding the different layered connections:
The dsl is an ATM connection. There is something that bridges the ATM connection to the ethernet connection. On the cisco forum it was described as BVI or bridge virtual interface. I don't suspect the zyxel to be as feature rich as that but conceptually it has to mimic the capability somehow.
I don't know whether the ethernet connection is broken. I am only describing what I think I see. The ethernet light on the modem blinks indicating that its at least made physical link.
I also can report that I have had similar problems when I used my airport base station. I didn't access the logs at the time but I observed the same behavior: the dsl light is green and the base station could not make a connection.
Here is another observation that I stated earlier. When this occurs, I can unplug the telephone cable (dsl) until the green light begins to flash indicating it has lost sync. Then plug it in to resync. The connection at the router reestablishes itself.
Until a magnificent storm in DC several weeks back I had been using a draytek 120 modem. Lightning took out the modem, my base station and the express devices. I had the same problems with this rig. (by the way draytek support is non existent).

Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium Member
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30

Doctor Olds

Premium Member

Have you updated the firmware to the latest versions in both the ZyXEL Router/Modem and the Tomato Router?

What is the exact Model Number of the ZyXEL Router/Modem as seen on the bottom label?
mrkrupa
join:2007-06-27
Washington, DC

mrkrupa

Member

I am using the Zyxel p-660R-D1 from earthlink. I used the onboard telnet connection recently and bricked it with what looked like a compatible firmware from the zyxel download site. I have an identical spare and will see if I can plug into the serial port and tftp a proper image back onto it. Anyway I digress.
I was doing some additional google research and came across some similar problem in the linksys forum. One user, Koitsu, recommends always to set up the modem to perform pppoe for the very reason I described in the initial post. I know the majority of opinion on this site is the opposite with respect to the choice between bridge mode and router mode on the modem/router since.
I run the Tomato RAF Firmware v1.28.9013 MIPSR2-RAF-V1.2e K26 USB version on my netgear 3500l v1 router. Before i borked the modem I think I have version 4 running. At the moment I am running the modem in bridged mode and can't seem to get the modem to let map its ip to tomato (had it working before as described above).

Thanks again for help. I will keep you posted.
Paul

Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium Member
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30

1 edit

Doctor Olds

Premium Member

said by mrkrupa:

Zyxel p-660R-D1 from earthlink

Sorry, I meant Earthlink's latest firmware here in the FAQ below. Just run the file with the Modem directly connected to the Computer's Ethernet Port.

»EarthLink DSL FAQ »How to upgrade the Zyxel P-660R-ELNK modem firmware

I don't know why your other ELNK Modem bricked, but hook it directly to the same Ethernet Port then reset it. Now try running the same ELNK Firmware file to see if it can find the Modem and update it's Firmware also. The P660R-ELNK and P660R-D1 use the same exact code so the ELNK Firmware file will work on both Earthlink provided/branded P660R Units.

Also this may be useful.

»EarthLink DSL FAQ »Where can I get the User Guide for the ZyXEL P660R Series Router?

HTH
mrkrupa
join:2007-06-27
Washington, DC

mrkrupa

Member

Great! I will give that a try.
mrkrupa

mrkrupa

Member

I got the modem back. I had a lot of trouble trying to flash a new firmware using x modem through a serial connection. I am planning on trying a different chip on the usb to serial connection to see if I can get the error rate down.
I was able to flash the config file and that put the device back in action. The config is a much smaller file and was able to get uploaded before it timed out on errors.
Anyhow, now I have version 5 and it doesn't have the menu anymore when I telnet in, just a command line.
By the way, the read me file says they corrected the dsl mode on the web page which now shows a value instead of error.
There is also a new page for line stats.
But I can't seem to get a good reference on the command line commands to configure remote logging (which was a menu item in telnet on the last version).
mrkrupa

mrkrupa

Member

One other thing. When I got the modem back up I used the web page to flash the latest rom and that worked. As I said in the last post it removed the telnet menu.

Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium Member
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30

Doctor Olds

Premium Member

said by mrkrupa:

One other thing. When I got the modem back up I used the web page to flash the latest rom and that worked. As I said in the last post it removed the telnet menu.

Telnet menu may be gone (web access has greater commands available than earlier firmwares), but the commands are listed by now typing help or ?


mrkrupa
join:2007-06-27
Washington, DC

mrkrupa

Member

Yes, you can get them but they don't follow the manual. The "?" or "help" works at the sys (root?) but not at the lower levels. I wanted to turn on remote logging but I couldn't figure out the commands and tech pub was not lining up as I said.
You can abbreviate the commands to the point they are unique. For example, I can type "s" for "sys" if no other command starts with "s". But I'm blind walking down the street poking in front of me to "see" what's there. I keep falling off the curb! There's no command recall so I have to type the string of commands over each time and I don't know how to "print" the status. Anybody know how to turn that menu back on? I might just go back to the prior distro. Can I upload the earthlink version to the D1?
I am working on getting earthlink to fix my line following another one of your suggestions (I have static on the voice line). If that comes through this whole exercise might become academic.
Thanks.
Paul
mrkrupa

mrkrupa

Member

Just an update for the curious and concerned:
I was on verge of changing to verizon and called earthlink to give them a last chance to fix the lines. Persisting through a half hour of testing and discussion Earthlink said the techs had to show up and service the line. Turns out that is verizon since they are the line maintainers. So they showed up and said the squirrels had chewed up the line. They would need another person to assist with a drop replacement to the house. It was scheduled. Several days later nothing from verizon. However, I did notice my service standing up with a full woody at 7990 down and 1000 up! SNR in both directions over 15db. But still no call from verizon.
I thought they might have done a temporary repair somehow since my drop replacement would have required access to inside the compound. I was afraid to plug the phone in less I ruin the miraculous signal I had going.
Anyhow, when they arrived, it was only one guy. I wondered how he was going to change out the squirrel-damaged cable. He said he wasn't hear to change any cables just to test the connection at the box! The work had been done from the CO to the pole; he said they probably switched in a new pair and that the squirrel damage had nothing to do with it especially since the line signal was fully up. Indeed, my logs reflected infinite improvement. I went from routine dozens of "WAN down" messages to ZERO "WAN down" messages.
So earthlink wins a reprieve and I get the signal I deserve without having to pay to switch providers. I have still not plugged the phone in to check the voice line quality but i will do that ASAP and report back.
Moral of the story is if you don't have reliable service after verifying no problem in the house, don't stop complaining until they resolve the problem outside the house.
Thanks again to all the help here on the forum.
mrkrupa

mrkrupa

Member

Okay, I plugged the phone in and the noise is much lower. I won't say it's gone since there is still a low level of static. Maybe it's distortion. Nevertheless, the dsl signal is still standing tall with no interruptions.