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fibe88
join:2014-10-08

fibe88

Member

[Internet] Fibe Modem to 3rd Party Router

Dear DSLR Users,

Any way to hookup your own router to a Bell Fibe modem directly via PPOE and completely bypass the Bell Connection Hub device?

Aware that I would lose TV service, however not interested in that; just want the Internet.

Thank you!

JAMESMTL
Premium Member
join:2014-09-02

1 edit

JAMESMTL

Premium Member

For FTTH, Yes you can. All you need to do is tag wan traffic with vlan 35. This can either be done directly by your router if vlan tagging is supported or by using a switch that supports vlan tagging. There is no reason why you should lose tv service if you set everything up tight.

Personally I use a smart switch (netgear gs-108t) to handle my vlan tagging and connect both my router for internet and the sagecom for tv service.
fibe88
join:2014-10-08

fibe88

Member

Assuming that the Time Capsule is not one of those type of devices? If not, any workaround to get it working? And yes ... this is for FTTH ... thanks for the reply!

JAMESMTL
Premium Member
join:2014-09-02

1 edit

JAMESMTL

Premium Member

From what I understand, the Apple time capsule does not support vlan tagging so you would need a vlan capable switch such as the netgear gs-108t. Thats what I use and it works well.

The basics are :

You would connect the ONT to say port 1 on the switch. Configure port 1 for vlans 35 and 36 tagged. (Only 35 if you don't want tv)

Connect Bell's router to port 2 (if you want to keep tv services skip if you don't want tv) and configure port 2 for vlans 35 and 36 tagged.

Connect your router to port 3 and configure it as vlan 35 untagged.

Port 1 accept vlan only frame types. Enable ingress filtering.
Port 2 accept vlan only frame types. Enable ingress filtering.
Port 3 admit all frame types. Disable ingress filtering

This will forward all tagged iptv packets (vlan 36) from the ONT to bell's router. These packets will remain tagged.

This will forward all tagged internet packets (vlan 35) from the ONT to both bell's router and your own. The packets going to the bell router will remained tagged and those going to yours will be untagged and seen as regular traffic by your router.

This will drop all other packets coming from the ONT (there shouldn't be any though)

This will forward all tagged all tagged vlan 36 packets coming from bell's router and forward them to the ONT. They will remain tagged.

This will forward all tagged vlan 35 packets coming from bell router and forward them to the ONT. The packets will remain tagged.

This will forward and tag all untagged packets coming from your router (regular traffic) to the ONT.

Vlan 35 traffic would be permitted between bell's router and your own but that is irrelevant.

Configure your router for pppoe

That's basically all there is to it.
kyphos
join:2014-03-26
Ottawa, ON

kyphos

Member

@JAMESMTL,
Thanks for posting the excellent recipe for setting up tagging.
I just got a D-Link DGS-1100-05. It's an inexpensive 5-port managed switch, and am about to configure it behind my ONT. Your recipe will save me lots of trial and error.

@fibe88,
Here's a link to a good tutorial on the topic, posted by [ngpixel], a frequent contributor to this forum.

»ngpixel.com/2014/07/19/h ··· -router/

His solution requires that you have a router that can do the vlan tagging. Apple's Time Capsule won't. Some Asus routers will, as will routers running DD-WRT or Tomato firmware.
pmosher
join:2006-11-21
Oakville, ON

pmosher

Member

I may be missing something here, but the advice offered here seems needlessly complicated to me. Let me explain how I have set up what I think the OP wants, with the addition of full FibeTV functionality.

I have FibeTV with its Sagemcom router, and it handles TV traffic and internet access for all set top boxes (connected by coax cables). In addition, I've connected the WAN port of a Netgear WNDR4500 to a LAN port on the Sagemcom, and specified the exact same PPPoE credentials in the Netgear for its internet access via PPPoE pass-through. With this method, it gets its own external IP address. This second router handles all other connected devices wired and wireless throughout my house.

Note that each router does DHCP for its individual LAN, so to speak, and the two LANs are basically not interconnected at all. This is fine, as I don't need the TV boxes to talk to my home devices anyway. No VLAN configuration required. Works fine.
fibe88
join:2014-10-08

fibe88 to kyphos

Member

to kyphos
Thank you both - sounds like there is a way forward after 1 year of that hideous box sticking out

One more question please ... how do you bypass the power backup device hooked up to the ONT - looks like the ONT has a non-standard power plug, any idea where to buy an adapter or what it is called? ... and yes I know that I would be losing phone service during power outages (sob sob) ... and that I probably shouldn't do that for safety reasons - but assuming someone like me was interested ... how does someone do that?

Thanks again!!!
pmosher
join:2006-11-21
Oakville, ON

pmosher

Member

OK, I just realized what I was missing -- there had to be something! I have FTTN, not FTTH, so my solution may not apply to you. Does someone with FTTH know the answer?
kyphos
join:2014-03-26
Ottawa, ON

kyphos to fibe88

Member

to fibe88
said by fibe88:

One more question please ... how do you bypass the power backup device hooked up to the ONT - looks like the ONT has a non-standard power plug, any idea where to buy an adapter or what it is called? ...

@fibe88,
The ONT does indeed have a non-standard power connector. The ONT contains two separate power busses: one feeds the optical modem and the POTS circuitry. The other feeds the internet/LAN circuitry. When the 110VAC fails (ice storm, etc), the CyberPower UPS maintains power to the first, but not the second. That way, the battery life during the power outage is maximized.

You won't find an off-the-shelf replacement power supply with the requisite connector and dual power circuits.
kyphos

kyphos to pmosher

Member

to pmosher
said by pmosher:

OK, I just realized what I was missing -- there had to be something! I have FTTN, not FTTH, so my solution may not apply to you. Does someone with FTTH know the answer?

The answer is 2 words:
1) reliability
2) throughput

The Sagem is not known for being the most reliable of devices. Many have reported that it locks up or otherwise needs to be rebooted from time to time (which kills the PPPoE passthrough session). Others have found that it impacts throughput (esp upload speeds) on the passthrough session from one's Netgear/Dlink/Cisco/whatever router. By connecting the router directly to the ONT (perhaps through an ethernet switch), the Sagem is taken out of the internet equation, and goodness prevails.

JAMESMTL
Premium Member
join:2014-09-02

JAMESMTL to fibe88

Premium Member

to fibe88
@kyphos - just a quick note, broadcom based routers running dd-wrt may not be able to do vlan tagging for VIDs > 15 without a switch-robo.c patch. From what I understand current tomato builds have this patch built in. This patch allows setting a vlan offset so instead of only allowing vlans 0-15 you could use 16-31 or in bell's case 32-47.

Atheros based routers should just be able use the vlan tagging section on the dd-wrt networking tab.

On a side note, I'll probably be be picking up a DGS-1100-05 at some point down the road to segment iptv and basic network for the bedroom. If you run into any problems with that switch please share.

@pmosher - some people experience throughput and stability issues when using pppoe passthrough on bells router. There should be a number of threads on those issues
kyphos
join:2014-03-26
Ottawa, ON

kyphos

Member

said by JAMESMTL:

From what I understand current tomato builds have this patch built in. This patch allows setting a vlan offset so instead of only allowing vlans 0-15 you could use 16-31 or in bell's case 32-47.

Some, but not all, Tomato builds have support for VLANs (and for setting the vid offset). I use Toastman's Tomato firmware - he has a series of builds with VLAN (and a bunch that don't), so one needs to choose the appropriate firmware. I've been successful using his VLAN build on an Asus router to tag my internet traffic and connect to the ONT. After bypassing the Sagem, upload speed increased from 35 to 50ish Mbps

Re the DGS-1100, my only feedback so far is that the documentation is pretty poor (hence my appreciation for your VLAN recipe). I haven't yet tried to get it working with the ONT.
fibe88
join:2014-10-08

fibe88 to JAMESMTL

Member

to JAMESMTL
@JAMESMTL/@kyphos,

Just received my GS108Tv2 and about to setup ... to confirm, below is the setup I intend to use (FYI I am not using the Bell router at all - not interested in TV service) ... my next question is how to setup ports 3-8 on the switch for my LAN devices (see below) ... thanks for any guidance, much appreciated.

- Port 1 (connect ONT) accept vlan only frame types. Enable ingress filtering. VLAN 35 tagged.
- Port 2 (connect my router) admit all frame types. Disable ingress filtering. VLAN 35 untagged. Router setup with PPPoE and DHCP setup for LAN.
- Ports 3-8 ... how to setup for LAN devices that require Internet???

JAMESMTL
Premium Member
join:2014-09-02

JAMESMTL

Premium Member

Before going any further, I forgot to mention make sure vlan1 has been removed from ports 1&2.

Now you have two choices for LAN devices. The first is to just plug them into your router and not use ports 3-8 on switch. This would be the simplest way.

The second method would be to connect port 3 on switch to lan port on router and then connect lan devices to ports 4-8 on switch. The advantage of this method is that it allows lan devices to communicate amongst each other while router is down and dhcp leases are still valid. This could also be used to split lan cabled into multiple vlans. In any event unless you need this functionality, I would just stick to option 1
fibe88
join:2014-10-08

fibe88

Member

@JAMESMTL,

Ok got it ... trouble is ports on my router are maxed out, and I need ports 3-8 on the switch for other LAN devices.

Is there an Option 3 that is like Option 2 but let's me use both the router ports and switch ports 3-8 for LAN devices? If so, how do I configure ports 3-8 on the switch (VLAN settings etc.)?

Thanks again!

JAMESMTL
Premium Member
join:2014-09-02

JAMESMTL

Premium Member

Yes, just plug port 3 of switch into one of the router's lan ports. Connect lan devices to ports 4-8 on switch and the remaining lan ports on router. Unless you changed something on switch, port 3-8 should already be members of vlan 1 (untagged)

IMPORTANT make sure switch ports 1&2 are not members of vlan 1
kyphos
join:2014-03-26
Ottawa, ON

kyphos

Member

@JAMES
Clever! I would never have thought of using a switch on the 'wan' side of the router to expand the 'lan' side. But as I learn more about VLANs and managed switches, I realize there's a lot of flexibility.
Thanks.

JAMESMTL
Premium Member
join:2014-09-02

JAMESMTL

Premium Member

Personally if I had to buy a new switch I would only buy one which supports vlans just for the additional functionality it could provide down the road. This can also be useful to segment parts of your lan.

As an example you could use a single cable to connect your router (internet) and bell's router (iptv) to another room. Just use another vlan capable switch at the other end to split the two network segments onto different ports.
kyphos
join:2014-03-26
Ottawa, ON

kyphos to fibe88

Member

to fibe88
A few posts back, JAMESMTL provided a recipe using a Netgear GS-108T managed switch to connect a customer-owned router to the Fibe ONT. For those interested, here's how to do the same thing using a D-Link DGS-1100, another small managed switch.

The DGS-1100 comes in 3 models, with 5, 8, or 16 ports. I have the 5-port version.

Log in to the DGS switch and enable the 802.1Q VLAN feature.
Out of the box, it will have one VLAN configured (vid1), with all ports assigned to it.
Click on the 1 to edit the config of VLAN 1.
- Untagged: 4-5 (or 4-8, or 4-16), depending on switch size)
- Tagged: none
- Not member: 1,2,3
Click Apply

Add VID for the Fibe internet VLAN.
- VID = 35
- VID Name = FibeNet or similar
- Untagged: 3
- Tagged: 1,2
- Not member: 4,5 (or 4-8, or 4-16 depending on switch size)
Click Apply

If you are a Fibe TV customer, you need to configure another VLAN for the IPTV traffic that flows to/from the HomeHub.
Add VID.
- VID = 36
- VID Name = FibeTV
- Untagged: none
- Tagged: 1,2
- Not a member: 3,4,5 (3-8 or 3-16)
Click Apply.

Finally, click PVID Settings. Ensure that ports 1-3 are set to 35, and the others are all at 1. Click Apply.
(the PVID setting defines what VLAN tag is applied to incoming, untagged frames on a particular port. For your own non-VLAN-aware router to work, you want the switch to tag each frame from the router with vid35. The packets will then get sent to the ONT with the correct tag to be compatible with Bell's Fibe VLAN35 infrastructure).

Connectivity is as described by JAMESMTL above, and illustrated here:
»ngpixel.com/assets/image ··· hema.jpg
- port 1 to the ONT's LAN port.
- port 2 to the Sagem/HomeHub WAN port.
- port 3 to the WAN port of your Netgear/DLink/Linksys/Cisco/whatever router.

Optional:
Use the System Settings menu to configure the DGS-1100 mgmt interface to live on your router's LAN subnet, which is probably 192.168.x.0
- Static addressing
- IP = 192.168.1.254 (for example. Use an IP which is not part of your router's DHCP scope)
- Subnet = 255.255.255.0
- Gateway = 192.168.1.1 (for example.)
Then connect port 4 of the switch to an used LAN port on your router. This will let you admin the switch from any client on your LAN. You can also use the other ports on the switch (5-16) as additional LAN ports. These ports are all part of VLAN1, and completely independent of ports 1-3.

Thanks to James & ngpixel for the insights that enabled me to get this working.