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linuxweenie1
Premium Member
join:2014-10-21
Springfield, VA

linuxweenie1

Premium Member

[Networking] What level of activity triggers FIOS automatic throttling?

My Situation: I have a personal weather station (PWS) as a hobby. The station consists of a Davis Instruments Vantage Vue which is connected to a Raspberry Pi running Weewx software (python based). This in turn is connected into my network at home then through the Verizon MI424WR and out; this in turn updates Weather Underground, the Citizens Weather Observation Post (CWOP; goes to NOAA), and the WeatherBug network. Right now I have had to internally throttle the output from this setup to a 512K stream to keep from being throttled by FIOS to 1.5MBps on downlink/uplink. My service is at the 25/25 level.

For the last couple of weeks I have had the throttling at a 1024K stream rate, but this morning I woke up to a 1.72/0.48 speed. Last night I noticed that it was being curtailed in the downlink side of things, falling from 3.1 to 2.24. The uplink side was still in the 24 range when I went to bed. I adjusted the QOS on the managed switch that my setup is plugged into back to a 512K level and within 5 minutes the downlink/uplink speeds went back to 30.20/24.08. This is the second time within the last month that I have done this little exercise, so I am pretty sure that I am being throttled externally.

My Question: Is the throttling that FIOS places (probably an anti-spam throttle) based on just the bandwith usage, or is it a combination of bandwith usage and data usage? Can anyone enlighten me?

LW
(post is from work, not home)

Smith6612
MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY
·Charter
Ubee EU2251
Ubiquiti UAP-IW-HD
Ubiquiti UniFi AP-AC-HD

Smith6612

MVM

This is weird.

Have you been seeing anything like packet loss on the service, or high latency when the bandwidth is choked down like this? Have you tried rebooting the ONT?

Haven't seen anything on Throttling on FiOS yet. Congestion? Definitely. Bad PONs and ONTs? Yes.
linuxweenie1
Premium Member
join:2014-10-21
Springfield, VA

linuxweenie1

Premium Member

It doesn't seem like packet loss (looking at the error listings on the MI424WR, I see 0 receive errors and 0 receive drops on the traffic monitoring page). I haven't tried rebooting the ONT yet (Lord knows I've rebooted everything else). I will try that when I get home.

Do you think it would help to switch out the MI424WR with my own router (Cisco RV220W); putting the MI424WR on a DMZ behind my router so that the COAX MOCA and the open FIOS ports will still work? (Yes, my network is protected by a couple more routers behind the MI424WR - don't trust the open ports that I cannot control)

LW
(post is from work, not home)
linuxweenie1

linuxweenie1 to Smith6612

Premium Member

to Smith6612
I did notice a "LAN Coax Link Low Rate" in the MI424WR system log from this morning. TX 88Mbps/RX 110Mbps at 06:39 and TX 0Mbps/RX 108Mbps at 6:44 this morning.
noebl1
join:2003-01-03
MA, USA

noebl1 to linuxweenie1

Member

to linuxweenie1
I've been running Weewx to Wunderground for months without a problem at a 5min update interval on a Beagle Bone Black. Before I was using that, I was using a Dallas 1 Wire Weather station feeding Wunderground every minute thru a custom script I had on my Homeseer home automation software (did that for 1.5 years on FIOS without a problem and like 8 years via Comcast). The submittal to Wunderground for example is literally an http post for example... pretty much nothing traffic wise as well. Think as other's have said you've got something else going on

-Mike
ScrawnyB
join:2004-05-18
Mechanicsburg, PA

ScrawnyB to linuxweenie1

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to linuxweenie1
So it sounds like you are running via COAX/MOCA... If this is indeed the case, have you tried to get switched over to Ethernet and see if the same scenario pops up there?
brianiscool
join:2000-08-16
Tampa, FL

brianiscool to linuxweenie1

Member

to linuxweenie1
Reset your router to factory default.

More Fiber
MVM
join:2005-09-26
Cape Coral, FL

More Fiber to linuxweenie1

MVM

to linuxweenie1
said by linuxweenie1:

I did notice a "LAN Coax Link Low Rate"

If you're seeing low link rate, you have a coax or splitter issue.
Any MOCA link rate under 180Mbps is unsatisfactory.
»Verizon FiOS FAQ »How do I check MOCA stats?

Although a low MOCA LAN link rate indicates a problem between the router and your STBs, you may also have a low MOCA WAN link rate.
linuxweenie1
Premium Member
join:2014-10-21
Springfield, VA

linuxweenie1 to ScrawnyB

Premium Member

to ScrawnyB
No, actually the Verizon router is hooked via Ethernet to the ONT. But I did encounter the Verizon router going to its knees when I was using Rapidfire on Weather Underground. I have since backed off from the update every 2 seconds to once every 2 minutes. Still the MOCA LAN rate occurred about the same time as I measured the drop in internet downlink/uplink speeds this morning.

houkouonchi
join:2002-07-22
Ontario, CA

houkouonchi to linuxweenie1

Member

to linuxweenie1
I never saw any kind of throttling on my FIOS connection even when I was averaging 40TB of traffic per month so another +1 that something else is at play here. I seriously doubt it is throttling.

If you just do a wget between the remote server and your house do you see the same throttle issue? what does a traceroute look like between the two when speed goes to crap?
ScrawnyB
join:2004-05-18
Mechanicsburg, PA

ScrawnyB to linuxweenie1

Member

to linuxweenie1
I wonder if your issue is similar to my old ONT issue. Severe traffic over torrents would cripple my ONT (not my Actiontec or my other router.... only an ONT reboot would fix it!). Do you happen to have a Motorola BPON (something like ONT-1000M3 ?)
linuxweenie1
Premium Member
join:2014-10-21
Springfield, VA

linuxweenie1 to More Fiber

Premium Member

to More Fiber
At the present time (10:14 EST), it registers 1150 MHz on the Coax channel. Last night starting at around 6 pm, I started having trouble with the download/upload speeds. I verified that there was no correlation with my PWS output. Removing all my internal connections and resetting the router did nothing for the download/upload speeds. Everything came back up this morning around 7 am. I will check again tonight and if I see the speeds drop after 6 pm I will call in a service ticket. I was not successful in resetting the ONT last night (bumbling fingers couldn't get the stupid battery out of the BBU!). BTW, thanks to everyone here for their words of wisdom and suggestions of things to try.
linuxweenie1

linuxweenie1

Premium Member

Oh, one odd thing - the system log seems to be missing yesterday's entries. There are three entries for Dec 14, 2007 in its place. Could I have been hacked?

More Fiber
MVM
join:2005-09-26
Cape Coral, FL

More Fiber

MVM

said by linuxweenie1:

Could I have been hacked?

Unlikely. Did you do a reset of the router? That will clear the log.

The Dec. 2007 timestamps are nothing to worry about. THose occur when the router comes up but has not yet synchronized with a NTP server.

tito79
join:2010-03-14
Port Saint Lucie, FL

tito79

Member

I my self had same issues he is describing . A Verizon rep told me the limit on the router is only 5 devices that's what causing the slow down.

just lou
join:2008-05-16
Staten Island, NY
Arcadyan FiOS-G3100

just lou

Member

said by tito79:

I my self had same issues he is describing . A Verizon rep told me the limit on the router is only 5 devices that's what causing the slow down.

I have up to 10 devices connected to my network at once and never have a slow down.

tito79
join:2010-03-14
Port Saint Lucie, FL

tito79

Member

Maybe that`s how they throttle by limiting devices depends on capaicity?
Shady Bimmer
Premium Member
join:2001-12-03

Shady Bimmer

Premium Member

What makes you think they are throttling?

I have 35/35 with far more than 4 devices and have no issues. There is no device limit on FiOS.

I too have a weather station with multiple regular updates occurring, including a 9-second rapid-fire to weather underground in addition to multiple similar "rapid" updates to other sites (including my own externally hosted)

There is something else wrong with the OP's environment that needs to be identified.
PJL
join:2008-07-24
Long Beach, CA

PJL to tito79

Member

to tito79
said by tito79:

Maybe that`s how they throttle by limiting devices depends on capaicity?

Verizon does not throttle, as indicated in prior posts...
linuxweenie1
Premium Member
join:2014-10-21
Springfield, VA

linuxweenie1 to More Fiber

Premium Member

to More Fiber
said by More Fiber:

The Dec. 2007 timestamps are nothing to worry about. THose occur when the router comes up but has not yet synchronized with a NTP server.

I was mostly concerned re the log because an entire day's worth of data was not shown. Later, I discovered that after I downloaded the system log, the missing date's data was there.
linuxweenie1

linuxweenie1 to Shady Bimmer

Premium Member

to Shady Bimmer
said by Shady Bimmer:

I have 35/35 with far more than 4 devices and have no issues. There is no device limit on FiOS.

said by Shady Bimmer:

There is something else wrong with the OP's environment that needs to be identified.

I am trying to eliminate my environment as being an issue. I have reset the MI424RW, I also rebooted the ONT, went around and tightened all COAX connections, checked the ethernet connections, checked managed switch settings, etc. I did discover that I had a circular VLAN crossover within my network that was eliminated. I also removed two connections coming into the router so that there are only 4 devices connected to the MI424RW. All this and I found the following:

I did reset the ONT and the router, that seemed to help for a while. There was a definite difference at first, but I did measure the download/upload drop to 0.10/0.27 around 8:50pm. Most of the time the upload held steady at ~20-25, the drop on downlink going down to 2.29, 1.08, and finally 0.10. I am starting to think it may be a clog point in the FIOS network. Don't know, its a mystery, it just popped up this week - I'm about ready to dump FIOS and switch to Cox. But I'm still trying to figure out what the issue is caused by.

bluepoint
join:2001-03-24

2 edits

bluepoint to linuxweenie1

Member

to linuxweenie1
said by linuxweenie1:

Right now I have had to internally throttle the output from this setup to a 512K stream to keep from being throttled by FIOS to

Have you tried not throttling the output? It seems like there is something misconfigured?
Also, don't get confuse with the LAN COAX speeds the log shows, what it's telling you is, the link speed of your LAN MOCA, which indicates problem with your internal coax wirings. Your internet runs through the Ethernet. The way I look at it, you have two problems.
a. internal coax/splitters
b. mis-configured hardware/s or Verizon

tito79
join:2010-03-14
Port Saint Lucie, FL

tito79 to linuxweenie1

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to linuxweenie1
Why did the verizon rep tell me limit was 5 devices ?
linuxweenie1
Premium Member
join:2014-10-21
Springfield, VA

linuxweenie1 to bluepoint

Premium Member

to bluepoint
I hadn't thought of that for a test. Originally the output brought the MI424WR to its knees - couldn't update my STB and DVR menu until I disconnected everything. I will try that over the weekend. Thanks for the suggestion.
linuxweenie1

linuxweenie1 to PJL

Premium Member

to PJL
said by PJL:

Verizon does not throttle, as indicated in prior posts...

I'm starting to see that this might not be a throttling thing. Maybe just a choke point in their network that suddenly cropped up. I want to eliminate anything that I am doing rather than push at Verizon. The question on throttle was based on trying to understand if I was doing something that would cause these slowdowns. So far, it doesn't seem so.
linuxweenie1

linuxweenie1 to tito79

Premium Member

to tito79
said by tito79:

Why did the verizon rep tell me limit was 5 devices ?

I'm not sure, but he may have been specifying a rule of thumb for the router to avoid overrunning it. I'm not really impressed with my MI424RW Rev. F and it's capabilities.

bluepoint
join:2001-03-24

bluepoint to linuxweenie1

Member

to linuxweenie1
said by linuxweenie1:

Originally the output brought the MI424WR to its knees - couldn't update my STB and DVR menu until I disconnected everything.

Try that and if it brought the router to its knees again, just temporarily remove all weather station hardwares for couple of days if possible just to see if the internet slows down without it. Usually when your having trouble with your service, Verizon will replace your F router, have them do that, they might give you the Rev I.

birdfeedr
MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI

birdfeedr to linuxweenie1

MVM

to linuxweenie1
said by linuxweenie1:

Davis Instruments Vantage Vue which is connected to a Raspberry Pi running Weewx software (python based). This in turn is connected into my network at home then through the Verizon MI424WR and out

Describe each device between the RPi and the ONT. Maybe something like:
ONT (coax) --> Actiontec (ethernet) --> managed switch (ethernet) --> RPi.
How do you throttle down to 512K?
Are you streaming a webcam?
Even with Wunderground, CWOP and WeatherBug, there shouldn't be such a bandwidth problem.

All routers that I've seen that used built-in QoS settings enabled by default had problems until it was disabled.

My suggestion (for diagnostic purposes) is to connect RPi output directly to Actiontec or whatever your primary router is. That data stream should be relatively insignificant on a 25/25 line, that if you need to manage QoS for something else, go ahead and do that with the managed switch. But you shouldn't really need it unless you're running something heavy all the time.
linuxweenie1
Premium Member
join:2014-10-21
Springfield, VA

linuxweenie1

Premium Member

PROBLEM RESOLVED (I THINK!)

First of all, let me thank each and every one of you for your words of advice. I pretty much tried each suggestion. Sorry for the long post.

I did contact Verizon over the weekend, noticing that my speeds were back up to where they were supposed to be. The Verizon rep had me reset the router back to defaults and then proceeded to check the lines and all things concerned. I had stopped my PWS at about 10:30 pm the night before to see if the rates would come back up. The Verizon rep asked me a couple of questions about what I was experiencing and then asked me to use only Ethernet connections to the speed tests (CLUE #1). I had been using apps on my iPhone and iPad through wireless to get the speed values. I figured this was a reasonable request since wireless is known to vary over time. The values coming back from Ookla's Speedtest.net were now rock solid. The Verizon rep assured me that some network people would be getting back to me that evening since most of my problems were showing up after 6:00 pm. I left the IM session and about 30 minutes later booted my PWS back up. I kept checking the speeds (using Speedtest from a PC plugged into my upstairs router and from a Mac Mini plugged into one of my managed switches in the basement). I use the managed switch to set the QOS level on my PWS output. So at this point I have two connections to the Verizon router: my Cisco router and the PWS. Along about 3:30 pm I decide to look at the system logs to see if there were any issues. When I logged into the router, the system logs indicated that the router was being tweeked and I also found that some of the Administrative functions were disabled. Along about 3:40 pm all of the Administrative functions came back. This indicated to me that whomever was working on the router had completed their task. Since then, I have had no further issues with the speeds. However, when I went back to using the Speedtest from either my iPhone or iPad, I had the same slowdown issues (CLUE #2). In fact, it didn't matter which of the wireless signals I used (1 from the Cisco, 1 from a Buffalo router used as a WAP, and 1 on the Verizon router), I still had the slowdown issue (CLUE #3). The problem appears to be more concentrated in the fact that I am using my iPhone/iPad through wireless to check the speeds. I recently updated my iOS to version 8.1 on both devices and from some external posts I have been seeing lately, some devices have slowdown issues on wireless. This appears to be the primary source of these terrible slowdown speeds.

What have I learned from this?
(1) Verizon is not throttling my connection (the data rate from the PWS is not enough to warrant such action)
(2) I need to test out all possibilities before jumping to conclusions
(3) This board is an incredible place to get advice on connection issues.

Many thanks to everyone. No, I am sticking with my current Apple products for now.
linuxweenie1

linuxweenie1 to birdfeedr

Premium Member

to birdfeedr
said by birdfeedr:

Describe each device between the RPi and the ONT. Maybe something like:
ONT (coax) --> Actiontec (ethernet) --> managed switch (ethernet) --> RPi.
How do you throttle down to 512K?
Are you streaming a webcam?
Even with Wunderground, CWOP and WeatherBug, there shouldn't be such a bandwidth problem.

I have four Netgear GS108T managed switches in the house due to several VLANs in use. The GS108T allows for QOS settings. The RPi in question is upstairs, connected through 2 GS108Ts and a trunk line using a "patch" VLAN directly into the Verizon router, essentially isolating it from my home network which is behind the Cisco router.