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JaY_III
join:2005-08-06
Belleville, ON

JaY_III

Member

[cCable] When are the New 2015 packages coming out?

Just wondering when we are going to get the updated packages or any info on them?

HiVolt
Premium Member
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON

HiVolt

Premium Member

I doubt you'll see anything until the Wholesale CBB rates are reduced and the new 24x8 modems are out, there seems to be some considerable delay with them.

Whoops, i just realized you posted with the cCable tag, not sure if the modem part applies to cCable, but on rCable it certainly does.
docbg
join:2004-03-10
Ancaster, ON

docbg to JaY_III

Member

to JaY_III
I think Rocca is really wrestling with sustainable rates for cCable, particularly for 120Mbit. He originally said we'd see something by end of November, then it was a couple of weeks into December (to allow for digestion of CBB hearings) and now it seems to be some time in January (maybe).

I'm hoping we hear something definitive in the next couple of weeks.

Davesnothere
Change is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada

Davesnothere to JaY_III

Premium Member

to JaY_III
 
Duh, I dunno, maybe sometime during 2015 ?

But seriously, and interestingly enough, I discovered the other day over in CBB forum (Direct Permalink) »Re: CIKTEL's new policy that GOUGEco had vewwwwy quietwy weeduced their CBB rate from $2,556/100Mb of bandwidth to $1,673.63 , in a voluntary interim move.

Details (choose the Cogeco tab after you get there) :

»docs.google.com/spreadsh ··· ng#gid=0

[Thanks, Resa]

Well, it was voluntary insofar as that Cogeco at $2,556 had been the highest of all CBB rates at the time, and now is only the 2nd highest.

But methinks that they knew damned well that they were wearing a target on their corporate back at $2,556 !

(They might still be now.)
docbg
join:2004-03-10
Ancaster, ON

docbg

Member

said by Davesnothere:

 
But seriously, and interestingly enough, I discovered the other day over in CBB forum (Direct Permalink) »Re: CIKTEL's new policy that GOUGEco had vewwwwy quietwy weeduced their CBB rate from $2,556/100Mb of bandwidth to $1,673.63 , in a voluntary interim move.

Well, it was voluntary insofar as that Cogeco at $2,556 had been the highest of all CBB rates at the time, and now is only the 2nd highest.

But methinks that they knew damned well that they were wearing a target on their corporate back at $2,556 !

(They might still be now.)

Well that is great news. If that is true, we should finally see some sanity in Cogecoland. Let's hope we find out in the next few weeks.

Davesnothere
Change is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada

Davesnothere

Premium Member

said by docbg:

Well that is great news. If that is true, we should finally see some sanity in Cogecoland. Let's hope we find out in the next few weeks.

 
In theory it is good.

I don't mean to bring anyone down on so festive a day, but it still leaves GOUGEco at a higher CBB rate than Robbers.

Also, I would suggest that the 3 IISPs who already offer TPIA in Cogeco-Land have factored in what they thought would be happening (including such a change as that one, prior to it happening), and there might not be that much wiggle room left unless a sizable FURTHER drop in CBB happens, or is forced by the CRTC.

Cogeco likely figures that they have bent enough already.

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone

Premium Member

Circuit rates are also a big problem with Cogeco. They charge nearly twice as much for a 120mbit circuit as Rogers does for 150. That makes it real hard to make any money once you factor in CBB.
JaY_III
join:2005-08-06
Belleville, ON

JaY_III

Member

Interesting info guys.

Do you think anything more competitive will be coming on the 50 plan? As right now cCables 55 plan could be argued as the better value.

Normally the Indy's are the greater value just like on the current 20 plan. But am not seeing that on the 50 unless you need unlimited.

Davesnothere
Change is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada

Davesnothere

Premium Member

said by JaY_III:

Normally the Indy's are the greater value just like on the current 20 plan.

But am not seeing that on the 50 unless you need unlimited.

 
GOUGEco counts and charges for ALL of your usage, in both directions, for ALL of the hours of the day and the night.

Their unlimited plans require a bundle, so you must spend other money for other services which you may not need.

Still think Cogeco is better value ?
Davesnothere

Davesnothere to Gone

Premium Member

to Gone
said by Gone:

Circuit rates are also a big problem with Cogeco.

They charge nearly twice as much [to the IISPs] for a 120mbit circuit as Rogers does for 150.

That makes it real hard to make any money once you factor in CBB.

 
Double Whammy !

It's not easy, making green ! [Sorry, Kermit]

OY !

rocca
Start.ca
Premium Member
join:2008-11-16
London, ON

rocca to JaY_III

Premium Member

to JaY_III
We're working on the packages and expect to have more info shortly into the new year. We try to avoid flip-flopping or frequently changing packages so it takes a little longer to make sure all the details are ironed out and plans are sustainable in at least the short term. As for the rate reduction on Cogeco CBB, this isn't an _additional_ drop, ie it was already accounted for months ago when the new cCable plans were released. There are still many issues with the usage sensitive rates that are under review by the CRTC at this time.

In the short term, we're analysing what the impact of any changes will be in terms of adjusting for speed changes available, keeping in mind that we're trying to avoid a price increase next month like Cogeco has accompanying their speed updates. Ie, this is far from a 'free' upgrade for their retail customers, and also a pretty significant cost impact to us if we were just to flow along the speed update without a similar increase.

Hope that helps in the mean-time, but rest assured it's something being looked at seriously.
HKPolice
join:2002-08-09
Scarborough, ON

HKPolice

Member

"shortly into the new year" as in within January?

rocca
Start.ca
Premium Member
join:2008-11-16
London, ON

rocca

Premium Member

Mostly likely.
lbonnell
join:2013-02-21

lbonnell

Member

I know this is for cCable but any new packages expected for rCable?

rocca
Start.ca
Premium Member
join:2008-11-16
London, ON

rocca

Premium Member

Not until the 24x8 modems are available, or we get an early decision on many of the filings in front of the CRTC.

jasmo34
join:2008-03-20
~ London ~

jasmo34

Member

So... How big is that "Rogers TN33 Payable" liability account getting?

What was the potential retro-active date... back to November 2013?



edit1: Sorry OP... I too just realized you posted about cCable, not rCable.
Expand your moderator at work

SirGumby
join:2014-12-22
Fergus, ON

SirGumby to JaY_III

Member

to JaY_III

Re: [cCable] When are the New 2015 packages coming out?

Hello

Just wondering how long between when you post new package info and rates till the go into effect? Just wondering as I'm thinking of upgrading to the Cable 50 (currently have 30 Grandfathered). If I were to switch to the Cable 50 and that package no longer exists in your new offers would that also get Grandfathered as well at the current rate?

rocca
Start.ca
Premium Member
join:2008-11-16
London, ON

rocca

Premium Member

It depends, if we send out a pre-announcement then usually that's a week out but in most cases they happen as announced - this change will likely be in that later category. So, if you like one of the existing packages it'd generally be a good idea to get it while it exists, if something with the new plans comes up that you like better you can always change again after.
geokilla
join:2010-10-04
North York, ON

geokilla

Member

Teksavvy is increasing its prices for all of its current packages. Safe to assume that Start will follow suit?
docbg
join:2004-03-10
Ancaster, ON

docbg to JaY_III

Member

to JaY_III
TekSavvy has posted their new packages across the board, including those for cCable:

6/2 mbps (upload was 1.5 and is now 2)
Lite(150) - $26.95 (Rate: +$2, Cap: 75 to 150)
Pro(400) - $38.95 (ZtC - 3) (Rate: +$3, Cap: 300 to 400)
Unlimited - $45.95 (Rate: +$2)
Note: Cogeco has grandfathered the 6/2 mbps speed, so it is no longer available for new sign-ups, speed changes, or moves. However, anybody on older 1, 3 and 5 Mbps packages were moved to this speed.

15/2 mbps
Lite(150) - $39.95
Pro(400) - $49.95 (ZtC - 6)
Unlimited - $69.95

30/10 mbps or 30/2 mbps depending on availability
Lite(150) - $44.95
Pro(400) - $57.95 (ZtC - 12)
Unlimited - $79.95

55/10 mbps or 55/2 mbps depending on availability
Lite(150) - $59.95
Pro(400 - $74.95 (ZtC - 15)
Unlimited - $94.95

Well these really thicken the plot. My grandfathered 30/10/400GB @ $60 with Start is no longer the best value. The above 30/10/400 plan is actually $2 cheaper with a Zap the Cap option (unlimited usage with speed cut to 12Mbps between 8pm-12am). Even more interesting is the 55/10/400GB plan for $75, which offers 5 Mbps more speed and 100GB (!!) more usage than Start's 50/10/300GB plan at the SAME PRICE. The 55 plan is essentially the plan I was waiting for when Start introduced new packages months ago but alas, it was not to be.

Of course, what is missing from the above is 120 and if Rocca can deliver in that regard, it will definitely be a game changer. However, as of this moment, the Tek plans are far, far more competitive than Start's. Start has been rock solid for me and I would love nothing more than to stay put but if nothing competitive materializes by the end of the month, it will be time to move on. Fingers crossed.

Davesnothere
Change is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada

1 edit

Davesnothere

Premium Member

said by docbg:

....However, as of this moment, the Tek plans are far, far more competitive than Start's....

 
This is mainly true only IF you think that you can tolerate an actually globally throttled prime time speed like TSI does with ZTC.

As you seem to be a person who is salivating over the idea of a 120Mbps plan, I sincerely doubt that you would like TSI's ZTC for very long.

START's way of reducing priority of temporarily heavy users on their unlimited plans has a much less likely chance of impacting performance noticeably, and it resets every day.

= = = = =

As a person who is grampa'd to a 20/10/150 plan with 2AM-8AM FREE period, I will be examining mostly what will be offered for cCable in the speeds on both sides of that, IOW at 15 and 30Mbps.

rocca
Start.ca
Premium Member
join:2008-11-16
London, ON

rocca to docbg

Premium Member

to docbg
We don't base our prices off of what other ISP's are doing, instead we base them off our costs and projections. And, we've been pretty good at doing that with no pricing adjustments other than when substantially new products are launched.

As for the specific price post, I'm certainly not going to get into dissecting another ISP's pricing. The fact is that Start isn't the same company as Teksavvy and so we don't use the same models/assumptions nor do we have the exact same underlying costs. We may be the lowest price on some plans, others we might be a few dollars more. We've never aspired to be the cheapest at all costs and instead we focus on delivering the highest quality service and support we can at a price that is still exceptionally competitive.

That said, I understand if $2 is enough for some people to switch and see if the grass is greener on the other side. For others who value the experience and service they have then hopefully they'll stick with us and maybe next round of increases we'll be cheaper again on their specific plan.

Marc said he was taking a loss and had to adjust, that's just a reality that sometimes happens when costs are increasing. We too are waiting for the same good news from the CRTC but I feel we still have the prices right at this time, so we're not expecting any rate increases right now on any of our platforms.

This is the reason we've been taking a while on the 15Mbps and 30Mbps speeds that Cogeco launched. If we just matched those speeds the price would have to go up, and that's really not something we want to do especially at the Basic tier, ie we want to be able to still offer a great product at $35 and the 10Mbps seems to be filling that need well. We have the technology to be able to differentiate our speeds from the incumbents so it's unlikely 15Mbps will be replacing Basic, and we're still working internally whether we want to keep the Standard at 20Mbps or if we do increase it what the cost for that would be.

Lastly about the 120Mbps, we're really struggling with this one and it doesn't seem possible to do at a rate that is competitive with Cogeco. If we have to sell the product above the Cogeco retail price we're not going to get much of a take up on it, which is probably why you don't see that plan with any other IISP as well. We've invested so much time and money into our efforts with the CRTC and wholesale hearing and hopefully we'll see some positive change in the next couple months that will enable us to be competitive on that plan. Until then, Cogeco is probably your cheapest option for 120Mbps.

Anyway, I hope that helps shed some light on the current situation, where we're going and why we aren't simply mirror copies of some other ISP.

Davesnothere
Change is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada

Davesnothere

Premium Member

 
Heck, in the last round of plans last Spring, only 3 TPIA IISPs offered ANYTHING thru cCable.

The rest didn't bother, even at the lower tiers than 120Mbps.
Anzio
join:2008-11-22

Anzio to rocca

Member

to rocca
We completely agree with the pricing at Start Communications and wouldn't consider anyone else. Even though rocca's response doesn't apply to me, I decided to take the time to read it. I'm so glad I did, as it justifies our reasoning behind choosing Start and really brings them home. Kudos rocca and everyone on the Start team.
docbg
join:2004-03-10
Ancaster, ON

docbg to Davesnothere

Member

to Davesnothere
said by Davesnothere:

said by docbg:

....However, as of this moment, the Tek plans are far, far more competitive than Start's....

 
This is mainly true only IF you think that you can tolerate an actually globally throttled prime time speed like TSI does with ZTC.

As you seem to be a person who is salivating over the idea of a 120Mbps plan, I sincerely doubt that you would like TSI's ZTC for very long.

START's way of reducing priority of temporarily heavy users on their unlimited plans has a much less likely chance of impacting performance noticeably, and it resets every day.

= = = = =

As a person who is grampa'd to a 20/10/150 plan with 2AM-8AM FREE period, I will be examining mostly what will be offered for cCable in the speeds on both sides of that, IOW at 15 and 30Mbps.

You're comparing apples to oranges. ZTC is a voluntary choice the user makes to reduce primetime speed in return for unlimited usage. ZtC can be turned on or off monthly by the customer at will. Start's deprioritizing on unlimited plans is automatic and out of the user's hands. So Start's unlimited plans are essentially a forced ZtC. I do not believe Tek does the same on their "Unlimited" plans.

jmck
formerly 'shaded'
join:2010-10-02
Ottawa, ON

jmck

Member

you don't seem to understand on how TPIA capacity works tho and how specifically TSI has run into a giant wall the last few months with capacity from Rogers and how it's affecting primetime speeds for users (altho not nearly as bad the last 2-3 weeks i think).

TPIAs only have so much capacity and can't get it increased at a moment's notice and can't accommodate unlimited users with speed at peak with ZTC on or off (again, mostly resolved as of a few weeks ago), but it's something that will keep happening until things change with Rogers which is likely not any time soon.

so you choose either being shaped a bit at peak if there's a capacity issue on Start or with other TPIAs (i don't think any of them shape like Start, maybe I'm wrong) or risk no shaping and running into a first come first serve basis.

either way, the choice is yours to come or go, nothing has really changed much other than a few dollars at another provider.
geokilla
join:2010-10-04
North York, ON

geokilla to Davesnothere

Member

to Davesnothere
said by Davesnothere:

said by docbg:

....However, as of this moment, the Tek plans are far, far more competitive than Start's....

 
This is mainly true only IF you think that you can tolerate an actually globally throttled prime time speed like TSI does with ZTC.

As you seem to be a person who is salivating over the idea of a 120Mbps plan, I sincerely doubt that you would like TSI's ZTC for very long.

START's way of reducing priority of temporarily heavy users on their unlimited plans has a much less likely chance of impacting performance noticeably, and it resets every day.

= = = = =

As a person who is grampa'd to a 20/10/150 plan with 2AM-8AM FREE period, I will be examining mostly what will be offered for cCable in the speeds on both sides of that, IOW at 15 and 30Mbps.

Zap the cap is optional. If you enable it, you get unlimited downloads. If you don't, you're capped to the plan (which is 400GB or unlimited).

rocca
Start.ca
Premium Member
join:2008-11-16
London, ON

rocca to Anzio

Premium Member

to Anzio
said by Anzio:

Kudos rocca and everyone on the Start team.

Thanks, much appreciated!