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jims2321
join:2000-04-05
Suwanee, GA
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jims2321

Member

The Real low down on AP's and connection limits!?!

Well, it all comes back to the Access Points. Whether or not an ISP who's primary market is residential, can make a buck, or is pissing into the wind.

I think we have all seen bantered about in various threads the limit to the number of connections per AP; Some say anywhere from 25 to 40 other as high as 60. With that and a few phone calls to various wireless vendors, my head is spinning. What I really need is a solid data. I understand that a lot of this is guess work, but if this area remains a black box, then we as potential WISP's will never be able to provide a repeatable formula for deployment and get some sort of standards and practices.

So, without further ado..What is the real number(s) on clients per AP; what are the parameters for figuring out capacity and forecasting growth. These are the numbers that potential investors and money sources are asking.

Jim
skynetaccess
join:2002-01-24
Leesburg, VA

skynetaccess

Member

I think it depends on your equipment. I would certainly never cram 50 customers on an Agere AP-200 or Linksys WAP11, but we think we can get up to 45-50 customers on our AP-1000's flashed to Central Outdoor Router's.

YMMV, particularly with respect to non-Agere equipment. :-D
cmaenginsb1
Premium Member
join:2001-03-19
Palmdale, CA

cmaenginsb1 to jims2321

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There are not any hard and fast numbers and never will be. There are to many factors and types of equipment for standards as an industry.

We've deployed over 7 major sites with 2 or more APs and things are completely different for even each AP at a site.

For example, at one site we had 3 aps. One of the three was maxed at 25 clients (primarily businesses running 768k or faster) We ended up splitting that into two different sectors.

Another site is sitting pretty with over 30 clients on it.

Other factors beyond per horsepower come into play with APs as well. For example, let's say you want to cover 180 degree area, but there are two different sources of noise at different freqs. Tha means even if you don't get 25 (if that's your magic number)clients to an ap you will still have to put 2 APs up to cover the area. (This is less of an issue with FHSS)

Considering a good AP with antenna and ancillary equipment is not much more than $1000 new focusing on the number of APs seems a little silly since it is probably the smallest cost of the business.

What you really should be worrying about are your bandwidth costs and how many users you can fit on a T-1. After all in general a month of a good T-1 costs as much as your AP.
jims2321
join:2000-04-05
Suwanee, GA

jims2321

Member

Okay, I see the logic. Then maybe my question should be how many users can a T1 support at the following rates

384/384
512/512
768/768
1024/1024

Jim

odnc
Premium Member
join:2002-02-04
Richmond, VA

odnc

Premium Member

Re: The Real low down on AP's and connection limit

capacity planning is an amorpheous beast. More of an art form.
but how about this:

backbone_speed/subscriber_speed X 10 = number_of_subscribers_on each_T1

(1500/256)*10= +-60 customers

you will need to play with your oversubscription ratios for every AP you have

newisp$
join:2001-06-08
Orleans, VT

newisp$

Member

Hey Scott,

That may border on brilliant.
I think I'll just quote it as "the rule of bandwidth,
according to Scott."

akristov
join:2001-01-31
Tampa, FL

akristov to jims2321

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Re: The Real low down on AP's and connection limits!?!

I think that is a rather conservative estimate, I am thinking you can sell easily put 50 clients on 1.5mb connections. You can also do other innovative things like setup transparents proxies - they are cheap - you can do it with Linux & squid. Also you can setup game servers for locals to use so maybe it won't eat up your backbone bandwidth. I think you might want to guarantee 256kb/sec, but let it spike up 1mb/sec when the bandwidth is available.

odnc
Premium Member
join:2002-02-04
Richmond, VA

odnc to jims2321

Premium Member

to jims2321

Re: The Real low down on AP's and connection limit

if you liked the first formula, how about this one

((bandwidth_exp + other_exp)(desired_profit_margin + 1))/monthly_subsriber fee.

so:
given that
bandwidth_exp = $1000 (monthly)
other_exp = $1000 (monthly)
desired_profit_margin = 0.25 (25%)
Monthly_subscriber_fee = $30 (what you bill your customers)

we have:
((1000 + 1000)(1.25))/30
which is:
83 customers!

newisp$
join:2001-06-08
Orleans, VT

newisp$

Member

I like everything but the $30/month part.
Why would I sell this service cheaper than dialup?

superdog
I Need A Drink
MVM
join:2001-07-13
Lebanon, PA

superdog

MVM

Because You can!,And it will really irritate Your competitors!HEHEHEHE!!:)

korym
Go Wisp's

join:1999-12-23
Richmond, VA

korym to jims2321

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Re: The Real low down on AP's and connection limits!?!

Because we can in our market which has much cable and DSL competition. And, also because of the efficient design of our network which allows for minimum downtime and low customer support.
[text was edited by author 2002-06-07 10:39:26]

odnc
Premium Member
join:2002-02-04
Richmond, VA

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Re: The Real low down on AP's and connection limit

the values I used were simply to "exercise" the last formula. Feel free to use your own values and give it a spin.