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garagerock
Premium
join:2002-06-14
Louisville, KY
| reply to boogie74
Re: understand what your asking for folks.
when, exactly did I suppose the point that you put in such a glib fashion:
CLEC's that offer high end business services ARE putting out their own networks. It's not an issue of what the law says. It's an issue of "INVEST IN YOUR BUSINESS."
All I'm saying, and anyone else who's ever had to put up with ILEC foot dragging, is allow unfettered access to the last mile. Period. Any CLEC network interfaces with the last mile, which your beloved employer controls. The law says give up access, not build a new national infrastructure. My point still is that I and every other employee I had contact with during my stint with a CLEC could testify to endless delays to repair, to circuit ID, and to practically every other issue that involved the ILEC in any region of the country.
For some bizarre reason, you keep putting words in my mouth. I never said anything about subsidizing the CLEC's, just give them unfettered access to the last mile without the anti-competitive bullsh*t you and I both know happens. (well, you're not willing to admit it, but hey, that's your crutch)
I specifically said that such delays are NOT unique to CLEC orders- that MANY orders for ILEC customers actually have delays as well
Like I said before, I saw ILEC customers get repaired and/or turned up in the same building as CLEC customers, on several occasions. Sooooooooo, from my puny personal experience (not to mention various other customers' experiences) I have to suppose that there were bullsh*t delays occurring. I think I'm smart enough to see a pattern developing.
obviously we disagree. i give up trying to convince anyone on this issue, including you, but you could check the lawsuit being filed by Covad-I bet they'd agree.
[text was edited by author 2002-08-05 10:15:33]
[text was edited by author 2002-08-05 10:17:12] | |
boogie74
join:2001-06-19
Neenah, WI
clubs: | When did you work for a CLEC? | |
garagerock
Premium
join:2002-06-14
Louisville, KY | why do you ask? | |
boogie74
join:2001-06-19
Neenah, WI
clubs:
| said by garagerock:
why do you ask?
Because you stated that you don't work in telecom but you used to. You then state that there is currently an average wait of 6 months or more to provision circuits to CLEC's.
So, that being said, I feel that the time period (and CLEC for that matter) that you worked there might have some relevance to your point of view.
For instance, if you worked there from 1996-1998, there are HUGE leaps in improvement since then that you would not be aware of.
Boogie | |
garagerock
Premium
join:2002-06-14
Louisville, KY
|  Oh, I see. The third degree on my background, eh? which evil master do you serve, Boogie? Do you have any evidence to suggest Ma Bell doesn't drag her feet???
I served Covad faithfully from 2000 to the demise of Bluestar, so I really have two companies perspectives on ILEC provisioning and delays. The six months I was citing was information I had access to as a regional engineer, in my desperate attempt to get as many customers turned up in a timely manner. There were many projects that never were completed, and there were many circuits in Ameritech territory that had a six month average to installation. Sorry, didn't get to keep any documents that prove this, just my foggy memory.
So yeah, in the 18 months I was there, there were several customers in Ohio, Indiana, and Michigan that never got turned up. We would call, check status, and get the same bullshit story-no facilities, no facilities, no facilities. Never mind that many other customers were getting Ameritech DSL from the same c.o.'s
I never said there was a current average, my information is outdated, obviously...so you got me there, I guess.
But, my points are still valid. The lawsuit news today with BellSouth is just the beginning. And no one in your shoes has any credible story to explain all of this away.
--
My attitude sucks. I know it, and I don't care anymore. Age has that effect on you.
[text was edited by author 2002-08-05 19:36:07] | |
boogie74
join:2001-06-19
Neenah, WI
clubs:
| said by garagerock:
Oh, I see. The third degree on my background, eh? which evil master do you serve, Boogie? Do you have any evidence to suggest Ma Bell doesn't drag her feet???
You are the one making the claim that the ILEC's are dragging their feet all the time- based on the concept that no one is going very far to disprove it? I am not making the claim, you are- I'm asking you to support it.
quote:
I served Covad faithfully from 2000 to the demise of Bluestar, so I really have two companies perspectives on ILEC provisioning and delays. The six months I was citing was information I had access to as a regional engineer, in my desperate attempt to get as many customers turned up in a timely manner. There were many projects that never were completed, and there were many circuits in Ameritech territory that had a six month average to installation. Sorry, didn't get to keep any documents that prove this, just my foggy memory.
So yeah, in the 18 months I was there, there were several customers in Ohio, Indiana, and Michigan that never got turned up. We would call, check status, and get the same bullshit story-no facilities, no facilities, no facilities. Never mind that many other customers were getting Ameritech DSL from the same c.o.'s
So your job was to handle ILEC delays? In other words, you have no data on how many jobs were turned over in a TIMELY manner, only that ALL the jobs you saw were turned over with delays.
The CO has nothing to do with "no facilities" delays. If a CLEC orders a pair for ANYTHING and no good pair to the location is available, the answer will be, "No facilities" for a number of reasons- none of which have to do with whether the order is CLEC or ILEC. You can bet your booty that if the same customer (not same CO, same customer) were to order service with the ILEC, the same delay would occur. It is ONLY YOU that has come to the conclusion that the delay is because it is a CLEC order.
quote:
I never said there was a current average, my information is outdated, obviously...so you got me there, I guess.
But, my points are still valid. The lawsuit news today with BellSouth is just the beginning. And no one in your shoes has any credible story to explain all of this away.
Your points are using outdated information. I have no comment on the Bellsouth lawsuit, as I have no information on it. In 2000, Ameritech had BIG TIME delays in service for its OWN customers- it had nothing to do with whether the lines were with a CLEC or not. My point is simply that.
Also, there is something smelling rotten in Denmark when the same company continues to sue ALL the ILEC's for the same thing- as though the ILEC's are calling each other up to say, "Let's get Covad!"
Boogie | |
garagerock
Premium
join:2002-06-14
Louisville, KY
| well, this debate is tiresome at this point.
keep making excuses for ma bell, although i don't see a reason as to why.
as to data on timely installs, i'd venture a percentage guess of 50%, which is horrible in any industry. any retail establishment worth their salt doesn't wait on the wholesaler like any CLEC waits on the ILEC. perhaps your company just isn't ready or willing to be a wholesaler.
like i said before, i'm highly suspicious of the "no facilities" bullshit excuse, you can say what you like but I've seen what happens, and it happens with so much frequency it just can't be justified with the excuses you cite.
(yawn) yeah, yeah....all ILEC's had delays in 2000, no kidding. but i really doubt 100% of those delays were just coincidence in regards to CLEC's.
i'll just let the lawyers do the talking at this point. you can choose to continue this, but you'll be talking to yourself. i'm just one guy, hundreds of others in my shoes experienced the same things i did. and all you have is a pile of the same old excuses, and apologies for ma bell.
i say "bah"
--
My attitude sucks. I know it, and I don't care anymore. Age has that effect on you. | |
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