lagoleer
join:2002-01-04
Millville, NJ
| reply to dsmey
Re: Well deyamn...
said by dsmey:
Frankly, I think you guys are being dense. Would you walk out of Tower records with a stack of 250 CDs? No, that would be stupid -- you would buy some, listen to them, and then buy some more. Obviously, this is what EMusic is asking you to do.
First of all, yes, the TOS do not specifically put caps on downloads, and their advertising does not state a limit. In actuality, they specifically state the unlimited nature of the service. We can all see and agree to that. This means a response of, "Well, they didn't say.....blah blah blah" is not needed.
Secondly, I agree. There is a segment of users obviously evoking their, "Affirmative Action," clause here and going slap happy with the service for perceived deserved reparations for years of expensive music (never mind the fact that it was always about choice. If you think it is too expensive, then simply do NOT buy it. No one forced you to buy the music. Obviously if everyone stopped buying music due to pricing structures, the companies would either have to change their pricing strategy/package deals or go out of business. Of course intangibly electronic media makes stealing that much easier for those who feel stealing is an ok reaction to what they deem unreasonable pricing). There is also that segment that is just plain greedy. Those are the types that see a plate in a store that says, "need some cents? Pick them up!" They then go to the counter with a .89 cent soda, fish around in their pocket, find .13 cents, and take the required .76 cents from the dish and when someone slaps their wrist, they say, "hey, it didn't tell me how MUCH I could take! I've tossed pennies in various dishes over the years, so what's your problem?!?!" It is odd how common sense only seems to work FOR the supposed thinker. ;-P Would someone really go into a store and purchase 200 albums in 3 days? No, but when armed with the ability to effective get music for a steal, their discriminating tastes suddenly aren't as discriminating, and they go hog wild downloading everything that even looks REMOTELY interesting. In the real, physical world, they would probably pass on these CDs because of content, cost, or both. But because it is basically a, "all you can eat," they are eating themselves sick, even when the food no longer tastes that good. Speaking of which, there are numerous cases of people being banned from these establishments because they eat well above what common sense and what an average person would deem, "all you can eat." I suppose some of these users are the same ones that cry wolf when an item online or in a retail store is accidentally marked, "$10" instead of, "$1000," and they expect to get it for that price when common sense should clearly tell them it is erroneously priced. And yet again, I am reminded of the users that took 24hr ISP service to heart years ago and kept their dial-up connections connected 24/7, then flipped out when the ISPs started imposing limits and disconnecting them. Even when idle, these users would run programs that would keep some type of activity running to keep themselves connected.
said by dsmey:
Otherwise, you are claiming it is fair to pay them, let's say, $45 (for the 3-month deal) and take hundreds of CDs (or thousands of retail dollars) worth of music. Figure it at about $.50 a disk in mechanical repro royalties (which is around what EMusic claims they pay) and then figure out how much you are looting from them.
Exactly. What is good for the goose is rarely good for the gander. Users whine and moan about the package deal nature of expensive CDs, but when given the chance to go slap happy, they do. I am sure none of these users stopped and said, 'wait, if I download 200 albums at ~15 songs per album, then that is 3000 songs at $10. That's .0034 per song. Wow, is the company taking a loss? What about the artists? How much are they paying in royalties? Bandwidth? Infrastructure costs?' Of course not. It is simply a free for all. No, they do not. Instead they think, 'big, bad, evil company makes more than enough $$$.'
said by dsmey:
Granted, they need to change their policy, but I can see why they decided to cut off all of you jerks first.
What other recourse do they have? They obviously will have to implement a new set of rules to counter-act greedy users lacking in common sense and a sense of decency. Actions like this really disgust me. Like adults that stumble upon a candy dish, and if it doesn't say, "1 per customer, please," they snatch handfuls of the candy then look around stupidly when the management looks at them in a not so friendly way or they simply don't care.
--
Real computer users use Unix. Real mobile warriors use Tadpole-RDI equipment.Knowing more about me than is desired: »home.earthlink.net/~electrosoft/ |
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some guy$
Mommy What's Irony?
join:2002-11-08
Manitowoc, WI | reply to x
it says in the TOS that they can if they want to |
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x
@Dial1.New
| reply to some guy$
"but there are new customers who got booted after 4 albums and charged the full year's rate--do you think 4 low quality cd rips are worth 120 bucks?"
This claim is totally false. (I mean, really, what's WRONG with you?) First of all, from all real-life accounts that I've read, when you get booted they stop charging you. (Some people were apparently charged for the next month but then refunded. I mean, what, you think they would keep charging you for a "subscription" that they canceled?) So, if you were booted in the first month, you'd have paid $10 bucks, and that's it.
And I'd bet my mammy's maxipad that nobody was booted for downloading 4 albums. That's just ridiculous. The only people I've seen who actually estimated what they were downloading admit to getting HUNDREDS of albums. |
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Aramis604
I Represent Nobody But Myself.
Premium
join:2000-12-15
Poway, CA
clubs:
| reply to lurker93
hmm... a single player can play for up to 1,440 minutes in a day. **ponders** I have 3 PC, two stereos, one MP3 player, three cars with CD players, and two DvD players that can play CDA format. **ponders**
Now considering that I'm not playing the same tracks on different players, or if I am, I've purchased multiple copies of the song, I can play up to 15,840 minutes of music in a day..... As I've asked before, who's to say how much music I can listen to in a day? Maybe I like to listen to 11 different songs all at the same time.
ok, so I went off of the deep end a bit, but seriously, it isn't their place to determine what I can use in a day/month/etc. If I've paid for what I have according to the TOS, where do they have any ground to stand on? |
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morph
join:2001-08-19
Canada | reply to some guy
true, true, but they could easily just put a limit on the speed of the servers to individual connections... set it to 5 k/s , same as dial-up |
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BIGHUSKER
join:2002-01-20
Minneapolis, MN
| reply to sherpaboy
Wow, that's clever. You disagree with what I say, so you turn it around and call me a woman beater and make me out to look like an idiot. I can't beleive someone actually took the time to take that "kick the crap out of him" part seriously. I never meant it to be taken literally, and didn't think anyone would actually do so.
But my point still stands. I refuse to be disrepected by any company that I am a customer of if I'm not in violation of their terms of service. If you're the type of person that likes to get screwed by big business, then more power to you. I, OTOH, refuse to just lube up and bend over.
[text was edited by author 2002-11-10 20:12:33] |
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some guy$
Mommy What's Irony?
join:2002-11-08
Manitowoc, WI
| reply to lurker93
said by lurker93  :
And I don't feel too sorry for a bunch of losers who sit in
front of their monitor 20 hours a day in order to click
one new link every couple minutes!
actually they have a program (emusic downloader) that does it for you--line up 200 or so albums (yes albums) (takes about 10 minutes to line them up) then walk away--the program even names them to your specifications and puts them in album/artist folders--in fact it's too convenient, because that's where all their troubles began (when they introduced it) |
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lurker93
Premium
join:2000-06-19
Houston, TX
| reply to dsmey
said by dsmey:
Oh, I understand now. Clearly all you guys have been really badly ripped off. You ONLY got hundreds of albums for virtually nothing. I can see why you want to sue for your $10 back, since you were so badly deceived and abused.
Hehe, gotta agree with you ... finding myself this time on
"the other side" of the argument, than I'd usually be.
And I don't feel too sorry for a bunch of losers who sit in
front of their monitor 20 hours a day in order to click
one new link every couple minutes! |
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lurker93
Premium
join:2000-06-19
Houston, TX
| reply to some guy
said by some guy$ :
i'll save that for when i get booted--i'm going to queue up 200 more albums (discriminately of course) and see what the magic number is
I'll bet you that the magic number is when a daily moving
average starts exceeding 1440 minutes of music to listen to.
The spirit of the wording seems to indicate that actually
*listening* to what you download is the point of it all.
There are only so many seconds/minutes/hours in a day ... |
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lurker93
Premium
join:2000-06-19
Houston, TX
| reply to BIGHUSKER
said by BIGHUSKER :
If I was paying $10 a month for a service and got talked to like that, I would cancel my account in a second.
Well, duh! That is what they want from the hogs.
You can double your userbase with no changes, if you only
lose the 5% who use half the resources.
Some people just don't understand not-so-subtle hints
and get booted. Check out closing time at the local bar... |
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some guy$
Mommy What's Irony?
join:2002-11-08
Manitowoc, WI | reply to dsmey
well what did they expect? i'm not bitching because i got lots of stuff--but there are new customers who got booted after 4 albums and charged the full year's rate--do you think 4 low quality cd rips are worth 120 bucks? |
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dsmey
@Dial1.NewY
| reply to some guy$
Oh, I understand now. Clearly all you guys have been really badly ripped off. You ONLY got hundreds of albums for virtually nothing. I can see why you want to sue for your $10 back, since you were so badly deceived and abused.
What a terrible, terrible deal this EMusic thing turned out to be.
I mean really, the worst thing that happened is that they were rude about it. They aren't "threatening" anybody, they are basically just saying they don't want to play with you anymore. You get to walk away with armloads of stuff, and you don't even have to pay for a whole year (or 3 month) commitment. |
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clamp
join:2002-09-24
San Jose, CA
|  reply to some guy
Who decides whether I can listen to 200 CDs a month or not? Why does eMusic has the right to tell me "well, please do not listen to CDs too much, 200 CDs are going to hurt you." Who cares, and why should eMusic care? They either remove the "unlimited" word or we will just won't join them and......hate to say, keep doing P2P. |
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some guy$
Mommy What's Irony?
join:2002-11-08
Manitowoc, WI
| reply to dsmey
I paid for the 250 albums--thats the whole point
I don't give a rat's anterior cruciate ligament if they make money or artists make money or what have you--I paid for unlimited downloads, and that is what I'm going to get.
The tower records thing is completely off the wall, because I PAID for the 250 albums! tower records would put them in a bag and say "Thank you sir!"
"Otherwise, you are claiming it is fair to pay them, let's say, $45 (for the 3-month deal) and take hundreds of CDs (or thousands of retail dollars) worth of music. Figure it at about $.50 a disk in mechanical repro royalties (which is around what EMusic claims they pay) and then figure out how much you are looting from them."
THAT IS WHAT THEY OFFERED! they offered unlimited downloads--they didn't say 2 albums a week, or "hey go easy on us we have nt iis4.0 servers"
if they want limits, fine put them in writing, until then i'm grabbing anything i find even remotely interesting |
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Aramis604
I Represent Nobody But Myself.
Premium
join:2000-12-15
Poway, CA
clubs:
| reply to dsmey
If Tower Records were to advertise something to the effect of
"For just $45 you can have all the CDs you want from our selection of over 200,000 CDs available."
(now, I realize this is never going to happen, but for the sake of argument, let's go with it.)
Yeah, I might very well walk out of there with a stack of 250 CDs. But the point here is that EMusic advertised "Unlimited for as little as $9.99mo." Now I don't claim to ever used their service, and I don't have access to the TOS. There might be something in the quote "fine print" limiting its use. But from the other posts I've read on this topic, I don’t think that is the case.
How can someone be accused of being greedy or overindulging by taking advantage of the service as it was sold to them? What it sounds like to me is that EMusic has had a larger demand for the product then they were prepared, or able to supply for, and now they are trying to back peddle a bit. If they need to change the TOS for their product, well, that's their prerogative. They do however (and I think legally) need to either,
1. Inform all their current customers of the change, and then implement it on a scheduled date.
Or
2. Grandfather all their current customers, and then change the TOS for all 'new' customers.
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The Rogue Wolf
| reply to dsmey
I believe you're missing the point. It's not an issue of if the downloaders were getting more than they were "entitled" to. It's that this company advertises, and explicitly promises, "unlimited" downloads, and then threatens- and terminates- member accounts for doing exactly that, insisting that the users were violating the "spirit" of the agreement. That's like renting a car on an unlimited mileage plan, and then being penalized because you drove it across a few states, instead of just to the supermarket and back.
If they want to limit it, fine. It's their service. But they MUST state up-front, clearly and plainly, what those exact limitations are. Their method, as it stands now, is borderline fraud. |
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sherpaboy
join:2001-07-06
Seattle, WA
| reply to BIGHUSKER
"Kick the crap out him" that's rich. How 'bout "kick the crap out of her" if it was a she? Jesus, get a life, "kick the crap out of him cuz you didn't get no respect!"
GOD DAMMIT! IF I BE PAYIN' 10 FREAKIN DOLLARS A MONTH THEY BEST TREAT ME LIKE I BE DA KING OR I GONNA KICK DARE ASS!
Stick with the "vote with the dollar part". It's what real people do. |
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dsmey
@Dial1.NewY
 from:
neutral
| reply to Aramis604
Frankly, I think you guys are being dense. Would you walk out of Tower records with a stack of 250 CDs? No, that would be stupid -- you would buy some, listen to them, and then buy some more. Obviously, this is what EMusic is asking you to do.
Otherwise, you are claiming it is fair to pay them, let's say, $45 (for the 3-month deal) and take hundreds of CDs (or thousands of retail dollars) worth of music. Figure it at about $.50 a disk in mechanical repro royalties (which is around what EMusic claims they pay) and then figure out how much you are looting from them.
Granted, they need to change their policy, but I can see why they decided to cut off all of you jerks first. |
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archfeld
join:2001-07-29
Concord, CA
| reply to BIGHUSKER
that is a blatant violation of the terms of service. There is NO SUCH THING as the spirit of the agreement, only the ACTUAL words and the interpretation a court puts on them. I'd sue..that is if I was silly enough to actually use a lame service like that. |
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Aramis604
I Represent Nobody But Myself.
Premium
join:2000-12-15
Poway, CA
clubs:
| reply to some guy
I'm interested to know what they consider to be a
quote:
huge numbers of tracks
that they cannot possibly ever listen to
Before the whole p2p thing started, I had about 250 store bought CDs. Average that out to about 11 tracks per CD that's 2,750 songs. Now I'll admit I don't listen to all of these daily, but I do listen to all of them from time to time.
how can they possibly think they can put a limit on the number of tracks someone can "possibly" ever list to? How pompous is that? |
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