lujohnson
N 0 E Q P
join:2002-08-08
Agoura Hills, CA
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
|  Such Thin-Skinned Crybabies!
Jeez, I find it hard to believe that a little parody or satire could actually 'hurt' a big company like Dow. I'd like to see their legal 'theory'.
I sure hope that The Thing fights this.... it smacks of censorship and IMO violates their (and the ISP subscriber's) protected freedom of speech. |
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micl
Visit Lovely Downtown Port Starboard
Premium
join:2001-10-25
Silver Spring, MD
| It would be interesting to see what The Thing's service contract is with Verio. Perhaps The Thing might be able to go after Verio for shutting down their WHOLE DAMN SERVICE!
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If I don't see you in the future, I'll see you in the pasture |
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onsitede
Hot Hot Hot
join:2000-11-24
Broad Brook, CT
clubs:
 ·Comcast
|  reply to lujohnson
Did you even read the "press release"? I'm all for free speech and all, but come on. That was pure defamation of character. I believe The Things provider has basically had enough, as the article states this is not the first problem that The Thing has been involved in. |
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Qumahlin
Never Enough Time
Premium,MVM
join:2001-10-05
united state
| reply to lujohnson
I think what Verio did was horrible...But as for Dow...
If you research the matter this company didn't simply set up a "parody" site. They sent out emails to various agencies, people, etc claiming to ACTUALLY BE Dow...They then directed people who received the emails to goto www.dow-chemical.com for further info. And that site was made to look official.
They didn't merely "parody" a site...they set up a smear campaign against dow. This is the equivalent of those people that set up mimic sites for banks and then emailed people to "update" their account info and sent them to the link to the fake site where they gave up their personal info and got ripped off. Sure this isn't nearly as extreme, but it's along the same lines of impersonating a company for your own personal goal
What verio did to the thing is awful, but what the "yes men" tried to do to Dow is clearly illegal
If you want to make a site to bash a company..fine there are plenty of them. But going around pretending to be that company and creating a website to further lie and make people believe you are that company is illegal
[text was edited by author 2002-12-31 12:47:43] |
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yourmama
@198.3.x.x | reply to onsitede
I believe by 'pure defamation of character' you meant PARODY.
Which, last I saw, was protected speech. But with the loss of other rights, privacy and miscellaneous freedoms, I may have overlooked that one. |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | reply to Qumahlin
So the fault then, falls with the "yes men" and not the ISP....that should be made clear.
Shutting down ISP's because of the actions of some of the subscribers is a road we shouldn't be going down..... |
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lujohnson
N 0 E Q P
join:2002-08-08
Agoura Hills, CA
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| reply to onsitede
__________________________________________________________
**Did you even read the "press release"? I'm all for free speech and all, but come on. That was pure defamation of character. I believe The Things provider has basically had enough, as the article states this is not the first problem that The Thing has been involved in.**
__________________________________________________________
Actually, I did. I also visited the site. It will be interesting to see if the 'defamation' thing would actually hold up in court. I mean, I have seen MUCH worse on the web. I left the site in question feeling as if it was simply his scalding opinion on Dow.... nothing more.
BTW, I am not 'siding' with any of the participants in this confilict... I could care less, and don't even agree with some opinions expressed on the site ...some are simply inaccurate. But what I am concerned about is the damage caused to the individual or small business by the 'over-reactionism' and 'knee-jerk' sanctions in this particular and other similar situations.
It deserves watching methinks. |
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micl
Visit Lovely Downtown Port Starboard
Premium
join:2001-10-25
Silver Spring, MD
| reply to onsitede
From Dow's press release:
quote:
The provider, Verio, graciously complied with our letter citing the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). Not only did they shut down Dow-Chemical.com, but as a good corporate citizen, they agreed to shut down an entire network (Thing.net) of websites many of which, while unrelated to dow-chemical.com, appear to serve no commercial purpose, being dedicated to the unproductive analysis and critique of society and corporate behaviour.
I think this paragraph from Dow's press release says it all when it lauds the fact that Verio shut down not only the sites that may (or may not) have infringed on Dow's copyright, but other sites as well. Dow shows its true character here and it also shows how both it and Verio would rather swat the fly with the proverbial shotgun.
[edit] And BTW: who the hell is Dow to determine what is and is not productive "analysis and critique of society and corporate behavior," beyond what may have affected them and their copyrights??? [end edit]
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If I don't see you in the future, I'll see you in the pasture
[text was edited by author 2002-12-31 13:01:38] |
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JPuppy
Java Heathen
Premium
join:2002-11-24
Honesdale, PA
clubs:
| reply to Qumahlin
At first glance, I'd have to agree. I checked out the mirror site, and it's not obvious that it's a parody site. It looks real, and it even has a dow copyright on the bottom of the page. One important aspect for a "parody" to be protected speech is that it must be obvious that it's not the original.
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-Jaded doesn't begin to describe it |
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slim
Premium
join:2001-02-13
Arlington, VA | reply to micl
Re: uhhh
You do realize that you are reading from the PARODY website, right?
I guess it is hard to tell the difference...
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si hoc legere scis nimium eruditiones habes! |
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uniquecp
Where'D It Go
Premium
join:2001-08-07
Scottsdale, AZ
| reply to onsitede
Re: Such Thin-Skinned Crybabies!
said by onsitede  :
Did you even read the "press release"? I'm all for free speech and all, but come on. That was pure defamation of character. I believe The Things provider has basically had enough, as the article states this is not the first problem that The Thing has been involved in.
Have you ever read some of the posts on this forum, in fact I find your opinion a true defamation of character, the character of the Constitution, so what do I do now tell Justin if he does not pull your account I will sue him until he bleeds out of every legal hole he has.
and I can
Good thing I believe in free speech huh.
Clif
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I crunch therefore I am |
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cmcgilton
join:2001-03-14
Stow, OH
| reply to JPuppy
Why couldn't it be a simple as the ISP being ordered to shut down the offending website? Or did the ISP not cooperate? Were they even informed?
In any case after reading the parody website (which there was not one indication it was a parody site) and Dow's real website I have a hard time seeing how there is a defamation of character or libel here, since the information in the website is not directed at one individual specifically.
I'm not sure if The Thing can fight this in court due to money issues. True, there is a copyright violation and the remedy is to eliminate the violator's material and penalize the violator. To completely eliminate service to the ISP itself because of one violator's infringement is wrong. |
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jhudson2
Copyright Martyr
join:2000-11-07
San Marcos, CA
| reply to Qumahlin
It's pretty obvious to me that the site is a parody. Is it really not obvious to you?
If it was not obvious then I suggest that your lack of appreciation of ironic humor probably doesn't make you the best judge of what is or is not parody. Conversely, if it IS obvious to you that this site is parody then it is equally obvious to me that your complaint about the site is not that someone may have been fooled but that Dow Chemical was made the butt of a pointed, but ultimately harmless joke.
Sounds to me like your issue is that you don't like corporation bashing. Sorry, thats protected speech in the US.
Of course if Dow could show evidence that the parody site was created in a deliberate attempt to cause a decrease in the sales of their popular line of "Industrial Strength Indian Killing Poison Gases" then they would probably have a case.
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When a dog howls at the moon, we call it religion. When he barks at strangers, we call it patriotism. - Edward Abbey |
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onsitede
Hot Hot Hot
join:2000-11-24
Broad Brook, CT
clubs: | reply to cmcgilton
The article states that it was after hours and the ISP was unable to be contacted. |
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jhudson2
Copyright Martyr
join:2000-11-07
San Marcos, CA
| That's a good point.
Of course, they could have just used poison gas on the ISP. Then they wouldn't have even had to contact them at all.
That would have solved the problem too.
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When a dog howls at the moon, we call it religion. When he barks at strangers, we call it patriotism. - Edward Abbey |
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nonymous
@rocketinternet.net
 from:
bear73
| reply to yourmama
I think he crossed the line of parody. He used the dow chemical name for the site and then posted a letter that looked like it came from Dow Chemical. You would have to read several of the articles to realize this is a parody and not an actual dow chemical website. |
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micl
Visit Lovely Downtown Port Starboard
Premium
join:2001-10-25
Silver Spring, MD
| reply to slim
Re: uhhh
said by slim :
You do realize that you are reading from the PARODY website, right?
I guess it is hard to tell the difference...
Duho!
...
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If I don't see you in the future, I'll see you in the pasture |
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pupowski
Premium
join:2002-03-22
Vancouver, WA
·Cricket Broadband
·Clearwire Wireless
·Comcast Formerly ..
| reply to Karl Bode
Re: Such Thin-Skinned Crybabies!
said by Karl Bode :
Shutting down ISP's because of the actions of some of the subscribers is a road we shouldn't be going down.....
Free speech, due process, and principles of justice are early casualties in the war against Democracy. First ISP's were shutting off customers without due process, now ISP's are shut off without due process............ The DMCA is being used for reason's beyond piracy, and fascism is on the rise. Concentration camps, torture, secret detentions, citizens held indefinitely without charges or judicial oversight... We're already too far down that road for my liking.
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The wealth of great nations is spiritual, not material. |
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XBL2009
------
join:2001-01-03
Chicago, IL | reply to lujohnson
There wouldn't have been a problem if they had clearly marked that the site was indeed a parody.
The Onion is pretty clear that it is parody that's why they haven't had any problems.
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JPuppy
Java Heathen
Premium
join:2002-11-24
Honesdale, PA
clubs:
| reply to jhudson2
said by jhudson2 :
Sounds to me like your issue is that you don't like corporation bashing. Sorry, thats protected speech in the US.
FU buddy. If you'll re-read my post, you'll see that nowhere did I give any opinion as to the actions of Dow, The Thing, or Verio. I was simply stating that I believe to fall under protected speech, it must be obvious to the average person that this is in fact a parody site.
Do you find the dow copyright on the bottom of the page to be acceptable?
And please, take your elitism somewhere else, it's not appreciated here.
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-Jaded doesn't begin to describe it |
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