Hickerx2
God Bless The U.S. Military
join:2001-03-04
Franklinville, NY
| Adelphia latency vs. 56k latency....hmmmm
Here are two traces, done at the same time. The first is from a local dial-up account, LTWinmodem, connected at 23k.
The second is from, you guessed it! a PowerStink connection...LMAO....just pathetic. 50% higher latency and 110% more hops from "your link to everything"....LMAO
1 137 ms 140 ms 140 ms roc-pm2.wzrd.com [66.153.27.4]
2 140 ms 140 ms 140 ms roc-router.wzrd.com [66.153.27.1]
3 156 ms 155 ms 140 ms ag-wizardco-serial4-1-1-23-23.rocny01.paetec.net [64.80.58.161]
4 140 ms 140 ms 140 ms bb-pnrocag-fastethernet2-0.rocny01.paetec.net [64.80.254.66]
5 156 ms 155 ms 156 ms 500.POS3-2.GW2.BOS4.ALTER.NET [65.217.197.5]
6 156 ms 155 ms 155 ms 168.at-5-0-0.XR1.BOS4.ALTER.NET [152.63.16.250]
7 156 ms 187 ms 155 ms 0.so-7-0-0.WR1.BOS6.ALTER.NET [152.63.29.217]
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 156 ms 155 ms 155 ms 208.254.32.18
10 156 ms 155 ms 155 ms 208.254.35.79
1 14 ms 19 ms 11 ms 10.7.24.1
2 19 ms 20 ms 19 ms 24.48.8.125
3 24 ms 22 ms 32 ms 68.65.14.161
4 20 ms 18 ms 18 ms 64.8.1.206
5 126 ms 124 ms 122 ms g1-02-00-00.r0.buf00.adelphiacom.net [66.109.11.129]
6 156 ms 160 ms 154 ms p3-02-00-00.n0.dca00.adelphiacom.net [66.109.0.69]
7 157 ms 159 ms 160 ms p3-00-00-00.r0.dca00.adelphiacom.net [66.109.0.142]
8 161 ms 154 ms 150 ms p3-00-00-00.p0.dca90.adelphiacom.net [66.109.6.150]
9 187 ms 261 ms 182 ms gigabitethernet1-0.ipcolo2.Washington1.Level3.net [63.215.136.209]
10 191 ms 188 ms 190 ms ae0-54.mp2.Washington1.Level3.net [64.159.18.98]
11 207 ms 206 ms 209 ms so-3-0-0.mp1.Chicago1.Level3.net [64.159.1.33]
12 200 ms 197 ms 201 ms so-6-0-0.edge1.Chicago1.Level3.net [209.244.8.10]
13 196 ms 198 ms 197 ms POS1-2.BR1.CHI13.ALTER.NET [209.0.225.42]
14 203 ms 238 ms 195 ms 0.so-5-0-0.XL2.CHI13.ALTER.NET [152.63.73.21]
15 197 ms 202 ms 196 ms 0.so-1-0-0.TL2.CHI2.ALTER.NET [152.63.67.121]
16 217 ms 237 ms 212 ms 0.so-2-3-0.TL2.NYC8.ALTER.NET [152.63.1.177]
17 210 ms 211 ms 219 ms 0.so-6-1-0.XL2.BOS4.ALTER.NET [152.63.21.73]
18 218 ms 219 ms 216 ms 0.so-7-0-0.XR2.BOS4.ALTER.NET [152.63.16.134]
19 222 ms 224 ms 226 ms 0.so-7-0-0.WR2.BOS6.ALTER.NET [152.63.29.221]
20 * * * Request timed out.
21 126 ms 134 ms 133 ms 208.254.32.18
22 225 ms 233 ms 225 ms 208.254.35.79
--
Don't Ask Me, You Might Not Like My Answer |
|
hellothere6
join:2003-01-12
New Hartford, NY | i hate paying $50/mo for dial-up =[ |
|
Kaori Masako
Kaori Masako
join:2001-05-24
Westminster, MD
| hmmm. Had I a regular modem still in this computer, I would be interested in doing this myself from my area to see what my results are (pretty similar I would guess.)
$50 a month for dial up. hahahah that was good. 
I don't mind... so much as they keep giving me PL for free, or until they fix it.
--
- What's Broadband?- If you won't rescue, don't breed. |
|
JacksGhost
Got Bottle?
join:2002-12-29
Buffalo, NY
| reply to Hickerx2
I ran a route to the same IP Hick...
1 10 ms 16 ms 15 ms 10.1.208.1
2 10 ms 16 ms 15 ms 68.65.14.157
3 10 ms 16 ms 10 ms 64.8.1.206
4 10 ms 16 ms 15 ms g1-02-00-00.r0.buf00.adelphiacom.net [66.109.11.129]
5 31 ms 47 ms 31 ms p3-02-00-00.n0.dca00.adelphiacom.net [66.109.0.69]
6 31 ms 47 ms 47 ms p3-00-00-00.r0.dca00.adelphiacom.net [66.109.0.142]
7 31 ms 47 ms 31 ms p3-00-00-00.p0.dca90.adelphiacom.net [66.109.6.150]
8 94 ms 78 ms 94 ms gigabitethernet1-0.ipcolo2.Washington1.Level3.net [63
.215.136.209]
9 78 ms 94 ms 78 ms ae0-51.mp1.Washington1.Level3.net [64.159.18.1]
10 78 ms 94 ms 94 ms so-2-0-0.mp2.NewYork1.Level3.net [64.159.1.85]
11 78 ms 94 ms 93 ms so-7-0-0.gar2.NewYork1.Level3.net [64.159.1.186]
12 94 ms 78 ms 110 ms so-4-2-0.edge1.NewYork1.Level3.net [209.244.17.82]
13 78 ms 94 ms 94 ms uunet-level3-oc48.NewYork1.Level3.net [209.244.160.18
2]
14 78 ms 94 ms 94 ms 0.so-6-0-0.XL2.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.21.82]
15 93 ms 110 ms 94 ms 0.so-6-1-0.XL2.BOS4.ALTER.NET [152.63.21.73]
16 93 ms 94 ms 109 ms 0.so-7-0-0.XR2.BOS4.ALTER.NET [152.63.16.134]
17 94 ms 110 ms 93 ms 0.so-7-0-0.WR2.BOS6.ALTER.NET [152.63.29.221]
18 * * * Request timed out.
19 94 ms 109 ms 94 ms 208.254.32.18
20 93 ms 94 ms 94 ms 208.254.35.79
We hit a different interface in Buffalo . That interfacing makes the difference.
Jack
[text was edited by author 2003-01-14 03:57:59] |
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forn1x
Lag Is Fun
join:2002-05-08
Richmond, KY
| reply to Hickerx2
From 6pm-12pm i ping better with my earthlink 56k rather than adelphia. Sad part is my earthlink 566 is 28.8k. So basically in that time frame im paying for a 10 year old internet connection. I have a friend applying for a job at adelphia this week, maybe hell get it and route us thri buffalo :|
--
Wewt! 28.8k what!? |
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carp
join:2002-10-30
clubs: | reply to Hickerx2
Congestion on the upstream can cause this. To me a 128K cap upstream makes no sense. and I think total available bandwidth on the upstream is less than downstream. |
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hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
clubs:
| reply to Hickerx2
Hicker decided to try a different complaining route saying
"The second is from, you guessed it! a PowerStink connection...LMAO....just pathetic. 50% higher latency and 110% more hops from "your link to everything"....LMAO"
Impressive and very clever Hick. I guess if you trace long enough you will find a router acting slow to ping requests and then that would be the ideal trace to use in a "complaint" post.
Here is a trace you posted the other day. Granted its not perfect but still better than the one you used.
1 9 ms 9 ms 12 ms 10.7.24.1
2 18 ms 17 ms 18 ms 24.48.8.125
3 17 ms 17 ms 17 ms 68.65.14.161
4 18 ms 21 ms 18 ms 64.8.1.206
5 17 ms 18 ms 20 ms g1-02-00-00.r0.buf00.adelphiacom.net [66.109.11.129]
6 48 ms 47 ms 56 ms p3-02-00-00.n0.dca00.adelphiacom.net [66.109.0.69]
7 47 ms 49 ms 48 ms p3-00-00-00.r0.dca00.adelphiacom.net [66.109.0.142]
8 49 ms 48 ms 49 ms p3-00-00-00.p0.dca90.adelphiacom.net [66.109.6.150]
9 91 ms 93 ms 91 ms gigabitethernet1-0.ipcolo2.Washington1.Level3.net [63.215.136.209]
10 91 ms 92 ms 92 ms ae0-54.mp2.Washington1.Level3.net [64.159.18.98]
11 102 ms 101 ms 102 ms so-3-0-0.mp1.Chicago1.Level3.net [64.159.1.33]
12 101 ms 102 ms 101 ms so-6-0-0.edge1.Chicago1.Level3.net [209.244.8.10]
13 98 ms 94 ms 96 ms POS1-2.BR1.CHI13.ALTER.NET [209.0.225.42]
14 96 ms 95 ms 95 ms 0.so-5-0-0.XL1.CHI13.ALTER.NET [152.63.73.17]
15 98 ms 100 ms 95 ms 0.so-2-0-0.TL1.CHI2.ALTER.NET [152.63.67.125]
16 112 ms 112 ms 111 ms 0.so-2-3-0.TL1.NYC8.ALTER.NET [152.63.1.130]
17 115 ms 116 ms 115 ms 0.so-7-0-0.XL1.BOS4.ALTER.NET [152.63.0.209]
18 114 ms 115 ms 124 ms 0.so-7-0-0.XR1.BOS4.ALTER.NET [152.63.16.122]
19 117 ms 117 ms 118 ms 0.so-7-0-0.WR1.BOS6.ALTER.NET [152.63.29.217]
20 * * * Request timed out.
21 117 ms 120 ms 120 ms 208.254.32.18
22 117 ms 116 ms 117 ms 208.254.35.79
You will of course notice that it reaches its destination in less time than the first hop of your dial up trace. I just point this out in case others may get the wrong impression from your posts.
Could you post a comparison speed test for us as well to enable us to see the full picture. Thanks.
Hob
--
"Consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." - Ralph Waldo Emerson |
|
Hickerx2
God Bless The U.S. Military
join:2001-03-04
Franklinville, NY
| reply to forn1x
said by forn1x  :
From 6pm-12pm i ping better with my earthlink 56k rather than adelphia. Sad part is my earthlink 566 is 28.8k. So basically in that time frame im paying for a 10 year old internet connection. I have a friend applying for a job at adelphia this week, maybe hell get it and route us thri buffalo :|
Ahhh, you'd think that getting routed through Buffalo would be the ticket, wouldn't you?
The fact is, that if you're in a "second class" area like mine, all of your traffic is routed out of Buffalo into DFW. Adelphia has the router configured so that it doesn't show DFW on the traces. That way they can try to trick people into thinking they are off the FW cloud.
The way it works, is that Level3 sends "certain" Adelphia traffic down to FW(Adelphia routers), at which point it is sent back to the same Level3 router. The FW routers are configured as a "bridge", thus, they don't show in the trace. Adelphia is then able to blame Level3 for all the latency, claiming "it's outside our network", as the Adelphia routers don't show in the trace.
Another example of intentionally misleading it's customers.
And yes Hob, I have the proof
The hysterical part is that they don't think their customers are smart enough to find this out 
Level3 NOC takes exception at having it's first tier network cited as the cause of Adelphia's problems. As a matter of fact, they hate it so much that they are more than willing to provide the documentation
--
Don't Ask Me, You Might Not Like My Answer |
|
MacLeech
The one and only
Premium
join:2001-07-14
SoCal
| said by Hickerx2 :
The way it works, is that Level3 sends "certain" Adelphia traffic down to FW(Adelphia routers), at which point it is sent back to the same Level3 router. The FW routers are configured as a "bridge", thus, they don't show in the trace. Adelphia is then able to blame Level3 for all the latency, claiming "it's outside our network", as the Adelphia routers don't show in the trace.
Huh?
So instead of sending data traffic on a direct link from Adelphia's routers in Washington DC to Level3's routers in Washington DC (where there is obviously a direct link), Level3 is sending the traffic down to Ft. Worth then back to Washington DC?
So its like this?
Adelphia.WDC --- Level3.WDC1 (hidden) --- Adelphia.DFW (hidden) --- Level3.WDC2
When this route is actually possible (and commonly used)?
Adelphia.WDC --- Level3.WDC1 (hidden) --- Level3.WDC2
1. How in any way would this relieve any traffic congestion for Level3 or Adelphia?
2. Who is doing the "secret" routing? Level3 or Adelphia?
--
Useful links: Cable modem manual (PDF), TFC Coax Specs, SCTE Specs
[text was edited by author 2003-01-14 12:09:07] |
|
hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
clubs:
| reply to Hickerx2
Hicker made absolutely no sense posting
"The fact is, that if you're in a "second class" area like mine, all of your traffic is routed out of Buffalo into DFW."
Ok...I understand so far
"Adelphia has the router configured so that it doesn't show DFW on the traces."
Which router on your traces is the offending one.
"The way it works, is that Level3 sends "certain" Adelphia traffic down to FW(Adelphia routers), at which point it is sent back to the same Level3 router. The FW routers are configured as a "bridge", thus, they don't show in the trace."
Now this does not make sense. You just told us that the traffic from Buffalo "is routed out of Buffalo into DFW."
Now you are telling us that ONCE it hits the level 3 router its rerouted BACK to FW and then sent back to Level 3? Am I understanding this correctly, please tell me if I am not.
So your packets go like this
Buf (a)
DFW (a)
Washington (a)
Level 3 Washington
DFW (a)
Level 3 Washington
intended destination.
This is different to what you told us only a few days ago. I would like some clarification.
"Another example of intentionally misleading it's customers."
If you say so. I think it falls under network management that is not something you need to consult every individual customer about. Can you explain WHY Adelphia would do this...?
Hob
--
"Consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." - Ralph Waldo Emerson |
|
hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
clubs:
| reply to MacLeech
Mac speculated
"So its like this?
Adelphia.WDC --- Level3.WDC1 (hidden) --- Adelphia.DFW (hidden) --- Level3.WDC2"
Actually he could have meant that too instead of the way I read it...I am very confused.
Also I guess that the secret FW router is not plauged by the continual latency issue that others are seeing.
Oh Hicker BTW is this happening on just the outbound route or the return route as well.
Hob
--
"Consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." - Ralph Waldo Emerson |
|
ip_vic
join:2002-02-18
Boston, MA
| reply to Hickerx2
said by Hickerx2 :
The way it works, is that Level3 sends "certain" Adelphia traffic down to FW(Adelphia routers), at which point it is sent back to the same Level3 router. The FW routers are configured as a "bridge", thus, they don't show in the trace. Adelphia is then able to blame Level3 for all the latency, claiming "it's outside our network", as the Adelphia routers don't show in the trace.
This make no sense. If a level3 router sends traffic to an adelphia router, and the adelphia router sends back to level3 you would get a loop that would end when the packet's TTL (time to live) expires. In fact, instead of guessing, just go to the level3 looking glass and look to see what level3 does with adelphia traffic. It's not hidden. A router will make it's decision and forward the traffic based on a set of attributes that are clearly shown in the output of a BGP table lookup on a looking glass. This is why I post the links to those sites.
regards
-V |
|
JacksGhost
Got Bottle?
join:2002-12-29
Buffalo, NY
| reply to Hickerx2
Mac.. I *personally* don't think he's too far off in what he claims, tho he worded it a bit wrong... Its wierd to explain..
Ok.. if what Hick is saying is true, That the return path differs from the outgoing path, how would a trace route even complete its tasking? It would be impossible...
But what if .. say... I ran a reverse trace and EVERYTHING came back thru FtWorse? but it all left thru DClvl3?
Different tiering or routing from other services? Could be neighbor tables differ between different providers? Plain ole OSPF having a better way of doing things?
I KNOW its possible... I saw it when I worked for verizons.. I forgot what caused it tho.
The stuff we forget when we don't apply it for a LONG time LOL! |
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MacLeech
The one and only
Premium
join:2001-07-14
SoCal | Yeah I get whats being said now, its the asymetric nature of IP routing, the outbound path is not the same as the inbound path.
All outbound traffic is going out Washington DC and return traffic is going through Ft. Worth. |
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ip_vic
join:2002-02-18
Boston, MA
| reply to JacksGhost
said by JacksGhost :
Ok.. if what Hick is saying is true, That the return path differs from the outgoing path, how would a trace route even complete its tasking? It would be impossible...
Return paths differ all the time. If a packet sourced in Adelphia in NYC and heads to a destination on ATT's network in LAX, you will probably get a forward path that jumps on ATT in NYC and travels the country on ATTs network. Then the return path is probably ATT sending to Adelphia on the west coast and traveling across the country on Adelphia's network. It's called hot potato routing. Get the traffic onto the destination's network as soon as possible. Rationale being that the destination's upstream will do right by their customer and provide the best service to them will usually equates to the best route.
regards
-V |
|
MacLeech
The one and only
Premium
join:2001-07-14
SoCal
| reply to JacksGhost
said by JacksGhost :
But what if .. say... I ran a reverse trace and EVERYTHING came back thru FtWorse? but it all left thru DClvl3?
Level3 routes return paths back to Hicker's example subnet thorugh Washinton DC just fine: said by Level3:
(from Philiadelphia, PA)
Tracing the route to 24.48.8.125
1 ge-6-2-0.mp1.Philadelphia1.level3.net (209.247.9.25) 8 msec
ge-6-1-0.mp1.Philadelphia1.level3.net (64.159.3.21) 8 msec
ge-6-0-0.mp1.Philadelphia1.level3.net (64.159.0.145) 0 msec
2 so-4-3-0.mp1.Washington1.Level3.net (209.247.8.70) 224 msec
so-3-0-0.mp2.Washington1.Level3.net (64.159.0.230) 212 msec 4 msec
3 gige7-0.ipcolo2.Washington1.Level3.net (64.159.18.4) 200 msec
gige9-0.ipcolo2.Washington1.Level3.net (64.159.18.36) 4 msec 204 msec
4 unknown.Level3.net (63.215.136.210) 80 msec 220 msec 12 msec
5 p3-00-02-00.r0.dca00.adelphiacom.net (66.109.6.149) [AS 19548 {ABS}] 168 msec 196 msec 224 msec
6 p3-00-00-00.n0.dca00.adelphiacom.net (66.109.0.141) [AS 19548 {ABS}] 28 msec 4 msec 8 msec
7 p3-01-00-00.r0.buf00.adelphiacom.net (66.109.0.70) [AS 19548 {ABS}] 36 msec 36 msec 36 msec
8 g1-00-02-00.a0.buf00.adelphiacom.net (66.109.11.130) [AS 19548 {ABS}] 36 msec 36 msec 36 msec
9 64.8.1.205 [AS 7843 {ADELPHIA}] 36 msec 36 msec 36 msec
10 68.65.14.162 [AS 7843 {ADELPHIA}] 36 msec * 36 msec
Exiting.
(from Richmond, VA Level3)
Tracing the route to 24.48.8.125
1 ge-7-0-0.mpls1.Richmond1.Level3.net (209.244.22.1) 0 msec 0 msec 0 msec
2 so-4-2-1.mp1.Washington1.level3.net (209.247.11.90) 4 msec 4 msec 0 msec
3 gige7-1.ipcolo2.Washington1.Level3.net (64.159.18.68) 4 msec 4 msec 4 msec
4 unknown.Level3.net (63.215.136.210) 4 msec 4 msec 4 msec
5 p3-00-02-00.r0.dca00.adelphiacom.net (66.109.6.149) [AS 19548 {ABS}] 4 msec 4 msec 4 msec
6 p3-00-00-00.n0.dca00.adelphiacom.net (66.109.0.141) [AS 19548 {ABS}] 4 msec 4 msec 4 msec
7 p3-01-00-00.r0.buf00.adelphiacom.net (66.109.0.70) [AS 19548 {ABS}] 32 msec 32 msec 36 msec
8 g1-00-02-00.a0.buf00.adelphiacom.net (66.109.11.130) [AS 19548 {ABS}] 36 msec 36 msec 32 msec
9 64.8.1.205 [AS 7843 {ADELPHIA}] 36 msec 36 msec 32 msec
10 68.65.14.162 [AS 7843 {ADELPHIA}] 36 msec * 32 msec
Exiting.
(from Chicago, IL Level3)
Tracing the route to 24.48.8.125
1 so-4-0-0.mp2.Chicago1.Level3.net (209.247.10.169) 0 msec 0 msec 0 msec
2 so-1-0-0.mp2.Washington1.Level3.net (209.247.10.130) 16 msec 16 msec 16 msec
3 gige9-0.ipcolo2.Washington1.Level3.net (64.159.18.36) 16 msec 16 msec 16 msec
4 unknown.Level3.net (63.215.136.210) 16 msec 16 msec 16 msec
5 p3-00-02-00.r0.dca00.adelphiacom.net (66.109.6.149) [AS 19548 {ABS}] 16 msec 16 msec 20 msec
6 p3-00-00-00.n0.dca00.adelphiacom.net (66.109.0.141) [AS 19548 {ABS}] 16 msec 16 msec 20 msec
7 p3-01-00-00.r0.buf00.adelphiacom.net (66.109.0.70) [AS 19548 {ABS}] 48 msec 48 msec 48 msec
8 g1-00-02-00.a0.buf00.adelphiacom.net (66.109.11.130) [AS 19548 {ABS}] 48 msec 52 msec 48 msec
9 64.8.1.205 [AS 7843 {ADELPHIA}] 48 msec 48 msec 48 msec
10 68.65.14.162 [AS 7843 {ADELPHIA}] 52 msec * 48 msec
Exiting.
(from Boston, MA Level3)
1 ge-6-0-1.mp1.Boston1.Level3.net (64.159.3.137) 0 msec 0 msec 0 msec
2 so-5-0-0.mp2.Washington1.level3.net (64.159.0.250) 12 msec 12 msec 12 msec
3 gige9-1.ipcolo2.Washington1.Level3.net (64.159.18.100) 12 msec 12 msec 12 msec
4 unknown.Level3.net (63.215.136.210) 12 msec 12 msec 12 msec
5 p3-00-02-00.r0.dca00.adelphiacom.net (66.109.6.149) [AS 19548 {ABS}] 12 msec 12 msec 12 msec
6 p3-00-00-00.n0.dca00.adelphiacom.net (66.109.0.141) [AS 19548 {ABS}] 12 msec 12 msec 12 msec
7 p3-01-00-00.r0.buf00.adelphiacom.net (66.109.0.70) [AS 19548 {ABS}] 44 msec 44 msec 44 msec
8 g1-00-02-00.a0.buf00.adelphiacom.net (66.109.11.130) [AS 19548 {ABS}] 40 msec 44 msec 40 msec
9 64.8.1.205 [AS 7843 {ADELPHIA}] 44 msec 44 msec 44 msec
10 68.65.14.162 [AS 7843 {ADELPHIA}] 44 msec * 40 msec
Exiting.
(from San Antonia, TX Level3)
Tracing the route to 24.48.8.125
1 ge-7-0-0.mpls1.SanAntonio1.Level3.net (209.244.22.193) 4 msec 0 msec 0 msec
2 so-5-1-0.mp1.Dallas1.Level3.net (209.247.11.170) 8 msec 8 msec 12 msec
3 pos8-0.core1.Dallas1.Level3.net (209.247.10.98) 8 msec 8 msec 12 msec
4 gige10-2.ipcolo2.Dallas1.Level3.net (209.244.15.98) 8 msec 8 msec 12 msec
5 unknown.Level3.net (63.209.52.30) 12 msec 8 msec 8 msec
6 g1-00-01-01.r0.dfw00.adelphiacom.net (66.109.12.133) [AS 19548 {ABS}] 16 msec 8 msec 12 msec
7 p3-00-00-00.n0.dfw00.adelphiacom.net (66.109.0.161) [AS 19548 {ABS}] 8 msec 8 msec 12 msec
8 p3-00-02-00.n0.chi00.adelphiacom.net (66.109.0.65) [AS 19548 {ABS}] 40 msec 40 msec 40 msec
9 p3-00-02-00.n0.phl00.adelphiacom.net (66.109.0.58) [AS 19548 {ABS}] 76 msec 72 msec 76 msec
10 p3-00-00-00.r0.buf00.adelphiacom.net (66.109.0.118) [AS 19548 {ABS}] 76 msec 76 msec 72 msec
11 g1-00-02-00.a0.buf00.adelphiacom.net (66.109.11.130) [AS 19548 {ABS}] 76 msec 76 msec 76 msec
12 64.8.1.205 [AS 7843 {ADELPHIA}] 76 msec 76 msec 76 msec
13 68.65.14.162 [AS 7843 {ADELPHIA}] 76 msec * 76 msec
Exiting.
Routing back through Washington DC looks fine to me...
--
Useful links: Cable modem manual (PDF), TFC Coax Specs, SCTE Specs |
|
Hickerx2
God Bless The U.S. Military
join:2001-03-04
Franklinville, NY
| reply to Hickerx2
OK, here goes....pay attention Hob...
In the following trace, the increase I see at Level3 is actually caused by a "hidden" trip to Adelphia's DFW cloud. The traffic hits 2 or 3 routers in FW, then gets sent back to my machine via Atl>>DC>>Buffalo. Of course, you would never know the reason for this "unexplained" 100% jump, unless you had the router logs and config tables from Level3
I'm well aware that IP routing is asymmetrical, but this is far and above typical asymmetric routing. Of course, Adelphia will just keep telling you that "it's beyond our control since it's outside our network",(how many times have you heard that?) when in fact, it is TOTALLY Adelphia's doing. They are doing this intentionally, with deliberate reasoning. I suppose this whole other segment that's routed through FW is in my imagination as well?
Now, a new dilemma... There is no doubt whatsoever, that Adelphia is "hiding" the FW hops, and lying about fixing things (as usual), but what are we to believe?
Do we believe that TAC knows nothing and they are "lying" to us in good faith because they aren't being informed?
Or do we believe that TAC is lying about the whole thing?
Personally, I believe that TAC has no idea of the extent that Adelphia uses shady practices to save face. I don't believe the techs at TAC are intentionally misleading customers.
Anyway....
1 11 ms 11 ms 10 ms 10.7.24.1
2 19 ms 19 ms 19 ms 24.48.8.125
3 20 ms 20 ms 21 ms 68.65.14.161
4 20 ms 19 ms 18 ms 64.8.1.206
5 20 ms 18 ms 19 ms g1-02-00-00.r0.buf00.adelphiacom.net [66.109.11.129]
6 51 ms 50 ms 53 ms p3-02-00-00.n0.dca00.adelphiacom.net [66.109.0.69]
7 51 ms 53 ms 49 ms p3-00-00-00.r0.dca00.adelphiacom.net [66.109.0.142]
8 50 ms 50 ms 50 ms p3-00-00-00.p0.dca90.adelphiacom.net [66.109.6.150]
9 93 ms 92 ms 98 ms gigabitethernet1-0.ipcolo2.Washington1.Level3.net [63.215.136.209]
10 96 ms 93 ms 95 ms ae0-56.mp2.Washington1.Level3.net [64.159.18.162]
11 101 ms 107 ms 98 ms so-3-0-0.mp2.NewYork1.Level3.net [64.159.1.42]
12 101 ms 99 ms 101 ms so-7-0-0.gar2.NewYork1.Level3.net [64.159.1.186]
13 100 ms 97 ms 100 ms so-4-2-0.edge1.NewYork1.Level3.net [209.244.17.82]
14 99 ms 98 ms 98 ms uunet-level3-oc48.NewYork1.Level3.net [209.244.160.182]
15 99 ms 99 ms 105 ms 0.so-6-0-0.XL2.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.21.82]
16 106 ms 111 ms 107 ms 0.so-6-1-0.XL2.BOS4.ALTER.NET [152.63.21.73]
17 108 ms 107 ms 109 ms 0.so-7-0-0.XR2.BOS4.ALTER.NET [152.63.16.134]
18 109 ms 110 ms 109 ms 0.so-7-0-0.WR2.BOS6.ALTER.NET [152.63.29.221]
19 * * * Request timed out.
20 106 ms 108 ms 109 ms 208.254.32.18
21 103 ms 103 ms 106 ms 208.254.35.79
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Don't Ask Me, You Might Not Like My Answer |
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MacLeech
The one and only
Premium
join:2001-07-14
SoCal
| said by Hickerx2 :
In the following trace, the increase I see at Level3 is actually caused by a "hidden" trip to Adelphia's DFW cloud. The traffic hits 2 or 3 routers in FW, then gets sent back to my machine via Atl>>DC>>Buffalo.
So your saying Adelphia ABS has a direct connect to Level3, yet they choose to route (your packets, but not everybody's) to a out-of-the-way, overloaded ATM cloud only to bring it back? Why?
How is the Level3 WDC router connected to Adelphia's ATM cloud? Let me guess, its a leased ATM from Sprint?
I could see the asymmetric routing, but this??? no
BTW, absolutely none of the network maps or bandwidth reports I've seen ever list or even elude to anything like this sort of routing at all...
--
Useful links: Cable modem manual (PDF), TFC Coax Specs, SCTE Specs
[text was edited by author 2003-01-14 13:26:36] |
|
Hickerx2
God Bless The U.S. Military
join:2001-03-04
Franklinville, NY
| reply to MacLeech
said by MacLeech :
Routing back through Washington DC looks fine to me...
It should...
The QoS is being implemented at
gigabitethernet1-0.ipcolo2.Washington1.Level3.net [63.215.136.209], which is the peering interface for my traffic.
Of course, you're not going to see the same thing by using Level3's network trace tool.
--
Don't Ask Me, You Might Not Like My Answer |
|
Hickerx2
God Bless The U.S. Military
join:2001-03-04
Franklinville, NY
| reply to MacLeech
said by MacLeech :
said by Hickerx2 :
In the following trace, the increase I see at Level3 is actually caused by a "hidden" trip to Adelphia's DFW cloud. The traffic hits 2 or 3 routers in FW, then gets sent back to my machine via Atl>>DC>>Buffalo.
So your saying Adelphia ABS has a direct connect to Level3, yet they choose to route (your packets, but not everybody's) to a out-of-the-way, overloaded ATM cloud only to bring it back? Why?
How is the Level3 WDC router connected to Adelphia's ATM cloud? Let me guess, its a leased ATM from Sprint?
I could see the asymmetric routing, but this??? no
BTW, absolutely none of the network maps or bandwidth reports I've seen ever list or even elude to anything like this sort of routing at all...
--
Useful links: Cable modem manual (PDF), TFC Coax Specs, SCTE Specs
[text was edited by author 2003-01-14 13:26:36]
I can understand your skepticism, but trust me. I have literally dozens of pages of data. Router logs, config logs, work orders, etc, plus statements from Level3 NOC management and technicians eluding to exactly that.
If I had to guess, I would say that it has everything to do with money. Adelphia is paying the minimum amount possible to Level3. I'd be willing to bet that you could find out if you wanted to. I'd be glad to give you any info I can if you're interested, just PM me.
Much of this data is in the hands of the NYS Attorney General's office now, with more on the way. I have contacted the FCC but I'm unsure as of yet whether they'll take a position or not...I'm waiting for a call back.
My next step is going to be the Buffalo News stations. The air about Adelphia has changed drastically there lately, and I'm guessing they might be interested since the new HQ isn't going to happen and the Sabres filed bankruptcy yesterday.
Here's two traces, one in, one out, to/from the same address.
1 14 ms 11 ms 13 ms 10.7.24.1
2 19 ms 19 ms 19 ms 24.48.8.125
3 18 ms 22 ms 19 ms 68.65.14.161
4 28 ms 19 ms 24 ms 64.8.1.206
5 29 ms 19 ms 18 ms g1-02-00-00.r0.buf00.adelphiacom.net [66.109.11.129]
6 50 ms 49 ms 49 ms p3-02-00-00.n0.dca00.adelphiacom.net [66.109.0.69]
7 51 ms 49 ms 50 ms p3-00-00-00.r0.dca00.adelphiacom.net [66.109.0.142]
8 53 ms 51 ms 52 ms p3-00-00-00.p0.dca90.adelphiacom.net [66.109.6.150]
9 54 ms 51 ms 51 ms at-0.mae-east.mclnva02.us.bb.verio.net [198.32.187.223]
10 51 ms 56 ms 51 ms p4-4-2-0.r01.mclnva02.us.bb.verio.net [129.250.2.250]
11 52 ms 51 ms 52 ms p16-0-1-0.r21.asbnva01.us.bb.verio.net [129.250.2.181]
12 * 57 ms 60 ms p16-0-1-1.r21.nycmny01.us.bb.verio.net [129.250.5.98]
13 59 ms 57 ms 58 ms ge-1-0-0.a04.nycmny01.us.ra.verio.net [129.250.26.72]
14 59 ms 60 ms 57 ms p16-3-0-0.a05.nycmny03.us.ra.verio.net [129.250.126.122]
15 57 ms 57 ms 57 ms ge-1-1.a03.nycmny03.us.ra.verio.net [129.250.126.212]
16 60 ms 60 ms 62 ms 206.252.193.20
IN:
Traceroute to xx.xx.xx.xxx.buf.adelphia.net (xx.xx.xx.xx) from 206.252.193.20: 1-30 hops, 38 byte packets
1 fe8-0-0.per1.lga3.us.mfnx.net (209.249.136.1) 1.18 ms 1.15 ms 0.890 ms
2 so-3-0-0.cr1.lga3.us.mfnx.net (208.185.0.173) 1.10 ms (ttl=253!) 1.7 ms (ttl=253!) 0.897 ms (ttl=253!)
3 so-5-2-0.cr1.lga1.us.mfnx.net (64.125.30.17) 1.1 ms (ttl=252!) 0.787 ms (ttl=252!) 1.22 ms (ttl=252!)
4 so-1-0-0.cr1.iad1.us.mfnx.net (208.184.233.61) 4.92 ms (ttl=251!) 5.24 ms (ttl=251!) 4.90 ms (ttl=251!)
5 so-1-0-0.cr1.dca2.us.mfnx.net (208.184.233.125) 5.71 ms (ttl=250!) 5.38 ms (ttl=250!) 5.51 ms (ttl=250!)
6 so-6-0-0.cr1.dfw2.us.mfnx.net (216.200.127.205) 33.3 ms (ttl=249!) 33.6 ms (ttl=249!) 33.7 ms (ttl=249!)
7 so-4-0-0.er1.dfw3.us.mfnx.net (208.184.232.110) 33.9 ms (ttl=248!) 33.3 ms (ttl=248!) 33.5 ms (ttl=248!)
8 adelphia-abovenet.dfw3.above.net (64.124.11.230) 47.9 ms (ttl=241!) 48.3 ms (ttl=241!) 48.2 ms (ttl=241!)
9 unk-426d0c95.adelphiacom.net (66.109.12.149) 88.4 ms (ttl=242!) 88.4 ms (ttl=242!) 88.4 ms (ttl=242!)
10 p3-00-00-00.n0.dfw00.adelphiacom.net (66.109.0.161) 88.2 ms (ttl=243!) 88.3 ms (ttl=243!) 88.2 ms (ttl=243!)
11 p3-01-02-00.n0.atl00.adelphiacom.net (66.109.0.41) 101.2 ms (ttl=244!) 100.3 ms (ttl=244!) 101.3 ms (ttl=244!)
12 p3-00-02-00.n0.dca00.adelphiacom.net (66.109.0.45) 100.3 ms (ttl=245!) 98.4 ms (ttl=245!) 101.2 ms (ttl=245!)
13 p3-01-00-00.r0.buf00.adelphiacom.net (66.109.0.70) 119.1 ms (ttl=244!) 119.0 ms (ttl=244!) 118.6 ms (ttl=244!)
14 g1-00-02-00.a0.buf00.adelphiacom.net (66.109.11.130) 119.1 ms (ttl=243!) 118.7 ms (ttl=243!) 119.0 ms (ttl=243!)
15 64.8.1.205 (64.8.1.205) 119.4 ms (ttl=243!) 119.0 ms (ttl=243!) 118.8 ms (ttl=243!)
16 68.65.14.162 (68.65.14.162) 109.6 ms (ttl=242!) 109.4 ms (ttl=242!) 109.8 ms (ttl=242!)
17 24.48.8.126 (24.48.8.126) 107.3 ms (ttl=241!) 116.9 ms (ttl=241!) 107.2 ms (ttl=241!)
18 * * *
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Don't Ask Me, You Might Not Like My Answer |
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