BBC4544
join:2002-03-12
Saint Peters, MO
| reply to JakCrow
Re: full steam ahead at your cost
1st off I state my opinion and you call it whining. if you disagree with me so be it but it is insulting for you to say it is whining. I accept your apology.
if I understand your point correctly, you are saying that sbc needs to invest in a potentially high risk service that could cost too much money. you base this on the fact that they make 2 billion a quarter. the reason they make 2 billion a quarter is because the do not throw their money at high risk investments.
the main point I am trying to make is that it is not the government's role to get involved with the private market. what is next government gas stations, video stores, food stores, construction companies, clothing stores.........
this sounds familiar. some famous men had the same idea...STALIN, LENIN, CASTRO......
lets get this last thing straight. government is government, it does not matter if it is city, local, state, federal. the government has no incentive to ever do anything in an efficient manner. |
|
pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
| said by BBC4544  :
the government has no incentive to ever do anything in an efficient manner.
Yea... not too long back a bunch of school districts in western Penna., along with Orange County, CA (among other governments) invested tax money in high risk junk bonds as a way to increase their spendable money. The schemes backfired and the result was that Orange County had to go into bankruptcy, and the Penna. school districts all had to raise taxes to pay for the current year's instruction along with the next. It was precisely because of this steady stream of unlimited taxpayer money that they had no incentive to invest in something reliable.
I have a feeling that these municipal network promoters aren't telling the whole story. How does tricitybroadband.com know how much the system will cost when they aren't the people who will be building it? Isn't it going to be the government that sets the final cost? People who want the government to fund their particular pet project routinely understate the true costs because they know governments are reluctant to spend money on something that appears overly expensive.
--
Pissed off at traitorous, ungrateful musicians? Don't just boycott them! Trade their MP3s and really screw them over! |
|
JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA
| reply to BBC4544
said by BBC4544 :
1st off I state my opinion and you call it whining. if you disagree with me so be it but it is insulting for you to say it is whining. I accept your apology.
You're obviously mistaken. I didn't apologize
said by BBC4544 :
if I understand your point correctly, you are saying that sbc needs to invest in a potentially high risk service that could cost too much money.
While wasting cash in an ad campaign against municipal broadband, apparently in an area they don't want to invest much in anyways. What's up with that, hmmm?
said by BBC4544 :
you base this on the fact that they make 2 billion a quarter. the reason they make 2 billion a quarter is because the do not throw their money at high risk investments.
Oh, so then that pesky money bleed SBC claims is just smoke and mirrors. No shock there. Don't forget, part of that $2 billion a quarter is from price increases and fees tacked on to customer bills to pay for future expansion that had never been seen in most places. Tsk tsk...
said by BBC4544 :
the main point I am trying to make is that it is not the government's role to get involved with the private market. what is next government gas stations, video stores, food stores, construction companies, clothing stores.........
this sounds familiar. some famous men had the same idea...STALIN, LENIN, CASTRO......
If that's your point, you need to go back to drawing board. Municipal services in this country come about when the "private market" (built by government subsidies) fails to provide the services and support that localities want/need/require. If the participants in the "private market" had their acts together in the first place, we wouldn't even be talking about this. And your hysteria at the bottom there shows you shouldn't be talking about this at all. Here, I'll make it all better: the sky isn't falling because these cities are considering a broadband program. Get a grip.
said by BBC4544 :
lets get this last thing straight. government is government, it does not matter if it is city, local, state, federal. the government has no incentive to ever do anything in an efficient manner.
You realize you can replace "government" with "telcos/cablecos", don't you? |
|
morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs:
·Charter Pipeline
 ·AT&T Southwest
| reply to BBC4544
said by BBC4544 :
some famous men had the same idea...STALIN, LENIN, CASTRO......
yes and the health care system in cuba is f-ing amazing. wonder why? not because the private sector stepped up to the plate.
--
R. Kelly = child molester/ child pornographer |
|
pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by morbo :
yes and the health care system in cuba is f-ing amazing. wonder why? not because the private sector stepped up to the plate.
LOL! That's only if you have money to pay for the best care available (usually if you're a rich Western tourist). Of course the same thing is true in any country. If you're a poor Cuban though, as most Cubans are, then you get to wait in line at the socialist medical clinic like everyone else. If you're lucky you may get care.
And another thing, what kind of healthcare do you think the refugees fleeing Cuba that are intercepted by the Cubans get?
--
Pissed off at traitorous, ungrateful musicians? Don't just boycott them! Trade their MP3s and really screw them over!
[text was edited by author 2003-03-26 15:24:15] |
|
BBC4544
join:2002-03-12
Saint Peters, MO
| reply to JakCrow
"You're obviously mistaken. I didn't apologize"
i was giving you the benefit of doubt. you have showed i was mistaken about you being an adult.
"Don't forget, part of that $2 billion a quarter is from price increases and fees tacked on to customer bills to pay for future expansion that had never been seen in most places. Tsk tsk..."
check OK. i know you live in the socialist state of CA but in the rest of the country companies exist to make a profit.
"If that's your point, you need to go back to drawing board. Municipal services in this country come about when the "private market" (built by government subsidies) fails to provide the services and support that localities want/need/require. If the participants in the "private market" had their acts together in the first place, we wouldn't even be talking about this. And your hysteria at the bottom there shows you shouldn't be talking about this at all. Here, I'll make it all better: the sky isn't falling because these cities are considering a broadband program. Get a grip."
it is not for you or a government to decide the needs of the private market. the private market determines the needs. if a gas station is needed at elm and main then it is up to the private sector to research and discover this. it is not the governments role to compete with the private sector. as far as who needs to stop talking "mr brownout", you live in a state that is eyeball deep in debt due to getting involved in the private sector.
"You realize you can replace "government" with "telcos/cablecos", don't you?"
ahhh, NO. government has elected officials and collect taxes on an involuntary basis. telcos/cablecos are companies that are there to make a profit and sell stocks on a voluntary basis. if you do not subscribe to their service, they do not collect money. if the government collects a tax that does not mean you are entitled to all services. actually to the contrary, the more taxes you pay the less service you get. |
|
BBC4544
join:2002-03-12
Saint Peters, MO
| reply to morbo
"yes and the health care system in cuba is f-ing amazing. wonder why? not because the private sector stepped up to the plate."
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha |
|
BBC4544
join:2002-03-12
Saint Peters, MO | reply to morbo
hahahahahahahahahahahaha
it is so amazing people flee the country in homemade rubber rafts!
hahahahahahahahahahahha |
|
morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs:
·Charter Pipeline
·AT&T Southwest
| reply to pnh102
said by pnh102 :
said by morbo :
yes and the health care system in cuba is f-ing amazing. wonder why? not because the private sector stepped up to the plate.
LOL! That's only if you have money to pay for the best care available (usually if you're a rich Western tourist). Of course the same thing is true in any country. If you're a poor Cuban though, as most Cubans are, then you get to wait in line at the socialist medical clinic like everyone else. If you're lucky you may get care.
And another thing, what kind of healthcare do you think the refugees fleeing Cuba that are intercepted by the Cubans get?
--
Pissed off at traitorous, ungrateful musicians? Don't just boycott them! Trade their MP3s and really screw them over!
[text was edited by author 2003-03-26 15:24:15]
you obviously don't know what you're talking about. i suggest you do some research before you open your mouth and look like an idiot.
healthcare in cuba is free.
--
R. Kelly = child molester/ child pornographer |
|
morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs:
·Charter Pipeline
·AT&T Southwest
| reply to BBC4544
said by BBC4544 :
hahahahahahahahahahahaha
it is so amazing people flee the country in homemade rubber rafts!
hahahahahahahahahahahha
the people aren't fleeing because of the healthcare. they are fleeing because of the lack political freedoms.
maybe you should do some research before posting your first instinct.
--
R. Kelly = child molester/ child pornographer |
|
pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| reply to morbo
said by morbo :
you obviously don't know what you're talking about. i suggest you do some research before you open your mouth and look like an idiot.
Here you go, straight from the horse's mouth.
said by morbo :
healthcare in cuba is free.
And the Cubans get exactly what they pay for. Maybe if you bothered to do some research of your own, you would see past the Cuban propaganda machine and learn the facts.
--
Pissed off at traitorous, ungrateful musicians? Don't just boycott them! Trade their MP3s and really screw them over! |
|
JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA
| reply to BBC4544
said by BBC4544 :
"You're obviously mistaken. I didn't apologize"
i was giving you the benefit of doubt. you have showed i was mistaken about you being an adult.
An adult would use a little rational thought regarding this matter. You however.....
said by BBC4544 :
check OK. i know you live in the socialist state of CA but in the rest of the country companies exist to make a profit.
Last I checked, some of the OK legislators were a little pissed off at SBC for not living up to its promises (meanwhile SBC plays fast and loose with interpretations). And guess what state a significant amount of SBC's profit came from bucky?
said by BBC4544 :
it is not for you or a government to decide the needs of the private market. the private market determines the needs.
Uh, yes, it is up to the government, and by extension, the people to decide the "needs" of the private sector, especially when it comes to industries with monopolistic participants that try to manipulate the market. The "private sector" works for the customer, not the other way around, and operates at the "blessings" of the governments involved, local, state, and federal. For example: if a city wanted to legally end a contract with a cableco, there's not a damn thing the cableco could do about it.
said by BBC4544 :
if a gas station is needed at elm and main then it is up to the private sector to research and discover this. it is not the governments role to compete with the private sector.
In this case, the private sector isn't competing at all, which is why this matter exists. Do keep up.
said by BBC4544 :
as far as who needs to stop talking "mr brownout", you live in a state that is eyeball deep in debt due to getting involved in the private sector.
Oh, there's that name calling you were talking about. Good going. And you're telling me to shut up because I disagree with you AND I live in a particular state? You're a conservative, aren't you? I was right. You are whining.
said by BBC4544 :
"You realize you can replace "government" with "telcos/cablecos", don't you?"
ahhh, NO. government has elected officials and collect taxes on an involuntary basis.
Many taxes are approved or denied by the voters in such "backwards" states like, oh, California. Imagine that. We can repeal taxes too. I hope you're able to rise to having such ability if you already do not.
said by BBC4544 :
telcos/cablecos are companies that are there to make a profit and sell stocks on a voluntary basis. if you do not subscribe to their service, they do not collect money.
Except when they're the only game in town. Then they need to be smacked down when they behave badly. You consistently and purposefully ignore the fact that -if SBC and Comcast were providing the services and support the people had wanted in the first place, this wouldn't be happening-. If SBC and Comcast (and their supporters here) weren't going around saying there was no profit in providing broadband in the markets that propose city run broadband projects, then backtrack and blitz people with ad campaigns against the city providing services that they didn't want to provide anyways, then perhaps people would have given them yet ANOTHER chance to redeem themselves, but they blew it. You really have no other argument outside of some ill-conceived ideology.
said by BBC4544 :
if the government collects a tax that does not mean you are entitled to all services. actually to the contrary, the more taxes you pay the less service you get.
That's why we have elections to vote abusers out if we so choose. We also have the right to approve a municipal services if we so choose. Isn't America great -for everyone-? I'm sorry you don't feel the same. |
|
morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs:
·Charter Pipeline
·AT&T Southwest
| reply to pnh102
said by pnh102 :
And the Cubans get exactly what they pay for. Maybe if you bothered to do some research of your own, you would see past the Cuban propaganda machine and learn the facts.
straight from the horse's mouth? lol. you might as well say "because i say so". the link you gave me is from an organization dedicated to anti-castro propaganda.
--
R. Kelly = child molester/ child pornographer |
|
pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
|  reply to JakCrow
said by JakCrow :
That's why we have elections to vote abusers out if we so choose.
Which is exactly what happened in California after this power mess! Oh wait, never mind 
--
Pissed off at traitorous, ungrateful musicians? Don't just boycott them! Trade their MP3s and really screw them over! |
|
JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA
| It wasn't for my lack of trying. I'm still trying to get Tauscher, Feinstein, and Boxer out of Congress. Snooty cows.
I almost forgot an appropriate comparison here: Just like voting against someone in office doesn't mean they'll lose, not buying service from a something like a telco doesn't mean they'll go out of business or have less an effect on the market.
[text was edited by author 2003-03-26 16:42:34] |
|
pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by JakCrow :
It wasn't for my lack of trying. I'm still trying to get Tauscher, Feinstein, and Boxer out of Congress. Snooty cows.
I understand and sympathize... I can't bear to imagine the kind of socialist paradise that Feinstein and Boxer help to create. But this goes back to my earlier point. Elected officials will stay in power by basically granting a majority of the constituents freebies from the treasury, no matter how ineptly or inefficiently they are run. This fact alone creates the kind of obstacles you face in throwing these bums out.
My example with PGW exacerbates this point. Every year many people in Philadelphia complain about PGW and say it should be privatized, but because PGW provides jobs for political hacks and cronies, and because it "gives" away so much product to so many people because the agency doesn't enforce billing, it makes it very hard to vote in politicians that will make the push to privatize the utility. Philadelphia has been run by the same flock of politicians for the past 50 years, its very hard to make anything change there.
--
Pissed off at traitorous, ungrateful musicians? Don't just boycott them! Trade their MP3s and really screw them over! And don't forget, 2 out of 3 human shields agree! Saddam really is evil! |
|
JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA
| said by pnh102 :
I understand and sympathize... I can't bear to imagine the kind of socialist paradise that Feinstein and Boxer help to create. But this goes back to my earlier point. Elected officials will stay in power by basically granting a majority of the constituents freebies from the treasury, no matter how ineptly or inefficiently they are run. This fact alone creates the kind of obstacles you face in throwing these bums out.
See my addition. Much about government can be applied the industries like telcom with only a few powerful players stomping about like giants in a playground. As to Boxer and Feinstein being socialists? I prefer to catagorize them more plainly: elitist bitches that want to have more rights than the average person. Like Feinstein wanting more gun laws that hurt honest people while she has a concealed weapons permit.
[text was edited by author 2003-03-26 17:10:23] |
|
pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| reply to morbo
said by morbo :
straight from the horse's mouth? lol. you might as well say "because i say so". the link you gave me is from an organization dedicated to anti-castro propaganda.
Well if Castro was such a good guy, and if Cuba's healthcare system really was that great, why are so many Cubans trying to leave?
--
Pissed off at traitorous, ungrateful musicians? Don't just boycott them! Trade their MP3s and really screw them over! And don't forget, 2 out of 3 human shields agree! Saddam really is evil! |
|
morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs:
·Charter Pipeline
·AT&T Southwest
| said by pnh102 :
said by morbo :
straight from the horse's mouth? lol. you might as well say "because i say so". the link you gave me is from an organization dedicated to anti-castro propaganda.
Well if Castro was such a good guy, and if Cuba's healthcare system really was that great, why are so many Cubans trying to leave?
i never said castro was a good guy. i never said cubans have political freedom that we (for the most part) enjoy in the u.s. i can assure you that cubans aren't fleeing because of the free healthcare.
my point is that cuba dedicates a huge portion of funding to public health care system so that everyone can enjoy needed healthcare - even the poorest of the poor. if the u.s. did the same we would have fewer homeless people on the street since a large number of these individuals suffer from mental illness.
--
R. Kelly = child molester/ child pornographer |
|
