DonLibes
Premium,ExMod 2001
join:2003-01-19
| reply to halfband
Re: Watchdogs: Cable gouges broadband users
said by halfband  :
Lots of barriers, but none are insurmountable. You can’t fault Comcast because they invested in running HSI to an area and the local Telco or another cable provider did not.
No one is faulting Comcast for that. They are faulting Comcast for being abusive with their monopoly. quote:
You were right about some areas of Alabama having competition. While I have the option of two cable internet providers, bellsouth DSL and some of the other DSL carriers, Comcast pricing is no different here than anywhere else. The other cable provider offers bundle discounts for tv, internet, and phone, the more you get, the more the discount. Bellsouth offers a DSL discount if you get the premium phone service, there is no discount for basic phone service. Basic phone service is mandatory to get DSL.
But you have a choice of broadband providers. It is in communities where there is no choice that's the problem. Just because you're not being abused doesn't mean other people aren't. |
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gharney
join:2002-01-04
Laurel, MD
| said by DonLibes :
They are faulting Comcast for being abusive with their monopoly.
they are wrong because there is no monopoly in comcast's case. |
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DonLibes
Premium,ExMod 2001
join:2003-01-19
| said by gharney :
said by DonLibes :
They are faulting Comcast for being abusive with their monopoly.
they are wrong because there is no monopoly in comcast's case.
You may have a choice for residential broadband but that doesn't mean everyone does.Or are you saying that even in communities without choice, you wouldn't consider Comcast a monopoly? |
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MikeDz3$
join:2003-03-15
Weirton, WV | he considers isdn and dialup as a choice. I mean it is a choice of internet access but the point most people here is they want broadband and dialup and isdn/satellite aren't broadband. Dsl,wireless and cable are broadband. |
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JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD
clubs:
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| reply to halfband
said by halfband :
You were right about some areas of Alabama having competition. While I have the option of two cable internet providers, bellsouth DSL and some of the other DSL carriers, Comcast pricing is no different here than anywhere else.
The pricing for basic cable varies DRASTICALLY by region. In many places - and I'm of the impression it's in MOST places - Comcast is the sole provider of residential broadband. Bundling a monopolistic service with a competitive service is coercion, imo. |
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Net192
join:2001-03-26
Renton, WA
| reply to gharney
said by gharney :
said by fuzydice :
They're a monopoly,
they are far from a monopoly.
unless of course you are using your own definition which differs from the real world definition.
Oligopoly...A market dominated by a small number of participants who are able to collectively exert control over supply and market prices.
(»www.investorwords.com/cgi-bin/ge···cgi?3404)
Either way, they're just as big and ugly as a monopoly. Those who have a choice between cable and DSL are the exception, not the rule. For us that have only one choice, Comcast is a virtual monopoly that uses it's dominant market position to exploit consumers. Why should someone be forced to pay for a product they dont want, pay-TV, to get broadband internet? This is not like the McD's analogy where I can walk across the street to BK and get a similar product at a competitive price without the happy toy.  |
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crazeetxn
Have A Cold One On Me
join:2002-12-09
Sweetwater, TX
| reply to DanB
My two-cents....
I couldn't be happier WITH the bundled savings. W/O their cable tv- HSI something like $56...WITH their cable TV, HSI-$39.99...lets see, $39.99 + $9.99, 50 bucks...ok, slight savings, BUT since I have DIRECTV, I also get my local channels. DIRECTV + LOCAL CHANNELS + HSI = ONE HAPPY CUSTOMER
I don't see where COMCAST is becoming a monopoly. A monopoly is more less a company that owns/runs everything. There are other options out there. Maybe not for everybody, but that's the nature of the beast. My parents live in the country. Sprint is the only phone service that services their area...they now have DSL via Earthlink. If that's considered a monopoly, then someone needs to include Sprint on the court order. However, being of sound mind and body that they are, I'm sure if the service became too much to pay, they'd simply discontinue it.
My thing is, if you already have cable TV, what's the problem with switching to THEIR service. You've got it anyway, you're just gettin' from another source.
--
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[text was edited by author 2003-03-29 16:36:21] |
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newview
Ex .. Ex .. Exactly
Premium
join:2001-10-01
Parsonsburg, MD
| In Wicomico County, Maryland . . . basic cable is $19.00.
Let's see, if I went back to Comcast CableTV . . .
$19.00 Basic cable
$39.95 HSI (I own my modem)
---------
$58.95 to Comcast
+$5.00 FRANCHISE FEE (since I have basic cable)
---------
$63.95 = ACTUAL COST OF COMCAST BASIC CABLE & HSI
What I pay - $54.95 per month for HSI
No thanks, Comcast.
I'll eat your $15.00 more per month predatory price gouging until the FCC drags your a** into court. I hope you are made to pay back EVERY dime.
--
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Where are we going? And what's with the hand basket? |
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J D McDorce
Premium
join:2001-12-29
Westland, MI
| reply to Net192
Net192 - thanks for the link. Here's where I make enemies of friends, while continuing the same relationship with others. 
said by »www.investorwords.com/cgi-bin/ge···gi?3112:
monopoly
A situation in which a single company owns all or nearly all of the market for a given type of product or service. This would happen in the case that there is a barrier to entry into the industry that allows the single company to operate without competition (for example, vast economies of scale, barriers to entry, or governmental regulation). In such an industry structure, the producer will often produce a volume that is less than the amount which would maximize social welfare.
The question is, for High Speed Internet service (which this thread was originally based on), does Comcast have a monopoly? On a macro level, no. Looking at Comcast, as a whole, their High Speed Internet service falls into the definition of Oligopoly that Net192 previously provided. However, on a micro level, there are cases where Comcast High Speed Internet does have a monopoly with regard to High Speed Internet service. One case would be a frequent poster to this forum who's only option for High Speed Internet is Comcast, as she cannot get DSL, Wi-Fi, or even a T1. In her direct area, Comcast owns the market (largely due to barriers to entry, as contained within the definition above).
However, even in those cases where Comcast has a localized monopoly on High Speed Internet services, it would be extremely difficult to show that Comcast is using that status to gouge its customers. Why? Comcast's published policy for High Speed Internet is consistent throughout all of the areas that they service throughout the United States. Are you a Comcast CATV customer? $42.95 per month. Need a modem? That's $3.00 per month extra. You don't subscribe to Comcast's CATV? $57.95 per month (also $3.00 per month extra if you have a modem). Want Pro? $95.00 per month. It doesn't matter if Comcast High Speed Internet is all you can get or if you have a choice of Internet from two different cable companies and a couple of different flavors of DSL.
Does it suck to have to pay $15.00 per month extra for CHSI if you don't want Comcast's CATV? You bet. But in the words of author (amongst other things) Richard Marcinko, I will treat you all alike - just like sh!t. |
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JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD
clubs:
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| said by J D McDorce :
One case would be a frequent poster to this forum who's only option for High Speed Internet is Comcast, as she cannot get DSL, Wi-Fi, or even a T1.
I'd think you were talking about ME J D, except I can't get powerline broadband either! said by J D McDorce :
However, even in those cases where Comcast has a localized monopoly on High Speed Internet services, it would be extremely difficult to show that Comcast is using that status to gouge its customers. Why? Comcast's published policy for High Speed Internet is consistent throughout all of the areas that they service throughout the United States.
That's true, J D. But some strategies, like bundling burgers with fries and soda, that are acceptable in competitive circumstances, are considered no-no's under monopolistic circumstances. In other words...
It's ok to treat customers like sh!t, but only if they have a choice. |
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J D McDorce
Premium
join:2001-12-29
Westland, MI
| said by JTRockville :
That's true, J D. But some strategies, like bundling burgers with fries and soda, that are acceptable in competitive circumstances, are considered no-no's under monopolistic circumstances.
Maybe the next time I stop at the Burger King in a Service Plaza on the Pennsylvania Turnpike (westbound, west of Pittsburgh), I'll tell them that they can't sell me a combination meal for less than the price of the individual items |
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Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
| reply to JTRockville
said by JTRockville :
That's true, J D. But some strategies, like bundling burgers with fries and soda, that are acceptable in competitive circumstances, are considered no-no's under monopolistic circumstances. In other words...
It's ok to treat customers like sh!t, but only if they have a choice.
You'd have to prove that they were actively trying to eliminate competition with their discount. And the only way I can see that happening (other than in a goofy California court) is if you could prove that they have many more people in HSI "monopoly" areas than competitive areas (such that they could ride out the losses in competitive areas on the profits from monopoly areas) , or you could find a paper trail stating they were attempting such.
--
So it begins. |
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JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD
clubs: | Losses? We're talking about a company that has a
FIFTY PERCENT PROFIT MARGIN
There are no "losses" to ride out!!! |
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JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD
clubs:
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| reply to J D McDorce
I'd never want to deprive you of your complete meal, J D. And I hope you never encounter predatory pricing of monopolistic services that are tied to the purchase of competitive services. But I also hope that if you do, lady justice tips her scale in your favor. |
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RONADYCKS
@attbi.com | reply to aTmFan
THE POINT IS,
YOU CAN CHOOSE BETWEEN A BIG MAC OR A WHOPPER.
I CAN ONLY GET THE BIG MAC AND THEY F*CK ME KNOWING THAT.
SO YOU SEE, AT LEAST YOU GET TO CHOOSE WHICH HAMBURGER YOU WANT..
COMPRENDE'? |
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halfband
Premium
join:2002-06-01
Huntsville, AL
| reply to DonLibes
said by DonLibes :
No one is faulting Comcast for that. They are faulting Comcast for being abusive with their monopoly.
The only reason Comcast has a monopoly position (Not the whole monopoly, just the position JD ) for HSI in most areas is because the telcos or another cable company do not want to invest in the build out of the area. If HSI is so profitable capitalist economics dictate that other providers will appear in time.
said by DonLibes :
But you have a choice of broadband providers. It is in communities where there is no choice that's the problem. Just because you're not being abused doesn't mean other people aren't.
But our HSI pricing is the same as areas without other internet competition. How are they abusing a monopoly position?
Is it the difference in cable TV price that you consider abuse or the star power accusations about contractors? Some of the MD bundle pricing (wasn‘t there a $99 for everything) looks better than I can get here.
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Registered Bandwidth Offender #40812 |
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halfband
Premium
join:2002-06-01
Huntsville, AL
| reply to RONADYCKS
said by RONADYCKS:
THE POINT IS,
YOU CAN CHOOSE BETWEEN A BIG MAC OR A WHOPPER.
I CAN ONLY GET THE BIG MAC AND THEY F*CK ME KNOWING THAT.
SO YOU SEE, AT LEAST YOU GET TO CHOOSE WHICH HAMBURGER YOU WANT..
COMPRENDE'?
Yes, But your gonna hate this:
They are not charging you more for your Big Mac in places where you cant get a whopper, so how are you being treated different than someone in an area with a burger king.
and
Shouldn't you be complaining to burger king that you cant get a whopper in your area and not complaining that mickyD built near you and that they are able to sell you a big mac?
--
Registered Bandwidth Offender #40812 |
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cbrain
join:2000-05-21
Silver Spring, MD | reply to DanB
Imagine Comcast's methods and conduct remained constant but they sold cars, donuts, clothing, or computers.
Would you purchase any of these products from Comcast?
What is the profit margin of Dell, CompUSA, GM, Ford, Duncan …? |
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gharney
join:2002-01-04
Laurel, MD
| reply to DonLibes
said by DonLibes :
Or are you saying that even in communities without choice, you wouldn't consider Comcast a monopoly?
correct |
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JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD
clubs:
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| reply to halfband
said by halfband :
said by DonLibes :
But you have a choice of broadband providers. It is in communities where there is no choice that's the problem. Just because you're not being abused doesn't mean other people aren't.
But our HSI pricing is the same as areas without other internet competition. How are they abusing a monopoly position?
In your area, halfband , Comcast is not abusing their monopoly position because they don't have one.
In my area...
If we want broadband, we have one choice: Comcast. We have choices for video: dish or cable. The practice of tying a discount of a monopoly service (broadband) to the purchase of a competitive service (video) is unfair and anti-competitive. They are using their monopoly on broadband to squeeze out competition for video.
Comcast's pricing may be consistent nationwide, but the market is not. |
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