ccarlin
join:2000-12-28
Deerfield, IL | reply to gdm
Re: Firmware rasied noise margins on 643
Well I am still up and running, this is the longest I have ran without any real downtime in a long while. Two weeknights in a row without loosing sync (well I lost once but it came right back up and never went back down). |
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Hall
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Dayton, OH | reply to gdm
Have you guys inquired in the Zyxel forum ?? Maybe there's a Zyxel tech who hangs out there and can comment on this...
--
-= Mindspring MaxDSL via Covad 1536/384 TeleSurfer Pro =- |
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gdm
Premium,MVM
join:2001-06-15
Mchenry, IL
clubs: | Hall,
Bill posted something there a few days ago no real response. |
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Bill_MI
Bill In Michigan
Premium,MVM
join:2001-01-03
Royal Oak, MI
 ·Comcast
| Hall, ZyXEL is one of Alcatel's many partners. The Alcatel chipset does all the telco part of ADSL, probably with DSP processing - ZyXEL plants that chipset in their product. That technology (implementation of ADSL) is pretty closed and proprietary. Chances are, Alcatel sends a block of code to ZyXEL (known as Version 3.8.164 for example) which ZyXEL puts in their firmware to send to the Alcatel hardware to run with. I'll bet ZyXEL knows little about the code they use.
But you'd think f/w enhancements would be passed along. I did notice one Alcatel update ZyXEL had a problem with and removed from one product. Also, every ADSL modem ZyXEL makes seems to run the same Alcatel firmwares - indicating they probably ALL use the same (or very similar) chipset. I looked at quite a few, looking for any products mentioning Alcatel Version 3.8.164. |
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Bill_MI
Bill In Michigan
Premium,MVM
join:2001-01-03
Royal Oak, MI | reply to Hall
Hall, besides all that I also replied to the wrong person, apparently.  |
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Bill_MI
Bill In Michigan
Premium,MVM
join:2001-01-03
Royal Oak, MI
·Comcast
| Oh well... no FastPath for me (sigh)
Friday prime-time - sure looks familiar. High residential phone usage has knocked me out of sync for years.
Notice how smooth the curve is - the firmware upgrade now seems to have a smoother response (data averaging, perhaps?).
This dip started around 6pm (Hour = 18) and lasted until 1am (Hour = 25). Since I'm in SafeMode my sync stayed solid at 928/384 during this time.
[text was edited by author 2003-04-12 05:03:59] |
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gdm
Premium,MVM
join:2001-06-15
Mchenry, IL
clubs:
| Bill,
That sucks but the firmware still helped though besides the primetime, correct?
[text was edited by author 2003-04-12 16:55:47] |
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Bill_MI
Bill In Michigan
Premium,MVM
join:2001-01-03
Royal Oak, MI
·Comcast
| The firmware seems to measure noise margin differently and/or possibly retrain quicker or smarter. ADSL is an array of frequencies that can be selected or discarded based on signal conditions. Since it's quite dynamic it's hard to say what's going on, really. All I do is come up with a zillion questions only insiders can answer.
For example, that 1AM recovery - was it the noise going away or did the modem recognize the noise problem and re-train? When I get some time I want to try to get more insight. |
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Hall
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Dayton, OH | Are you brave enough to try non-Safe-Mode yet ?? |
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gdm
Premium,MVM
join:2001-06-15
Mchenry, IL
clubs:
 ·AT&T U-Verse
 ·AT&T CallVantage
·Comcast Digital Vo..
·Comcast
| said by Hall  :
Are you brave enough to try non-Safe-Mode yet ??
I think Bill should try getting out of safe mode and try it!!!!!! :):) |
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Bill_MI
Bill In Michigan
Premium,MVM
join:2001-01-03
Royal Oak, MI | reply to Hall
OK, you guys win. I'll call sometime soon and give it a try. I've done enough creative justification. |
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gdm
Premium,MVM
join:2001-06-15
Mchenry, IL
clubs: | There you go Bill!!!!! Let us know what happens and all the stats. Nothing like a little presssure.:) |
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Bill_MI
Bill In Michigan
Premium,MVM
join:2001-01-03
Royal Oak, MI
·Comcast
| Here's a week before and a week after the firmware change. It won't be that quick to FastPath - I'd like to watch this over another weekly cycle (sorry, I'm an engineer ).
[text was edited by author 2003-04-14 18:23:36] |
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gdm
Premium,MVM
join:2001-06-15
Mchenry, IL
clubs:
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T CallVantage
·Comcast Digital Vo..
·Comcast
| That friday night dip still seems very strange to me. I thought no matter the usage a DSL line shouldn't spike/dive like that. Bill I know you said they have checked the line and everything else.
Do you know if anything is going on at the CO at this time? It's every friday night, correct? |
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Bill_MI
Bill In Michigan
Premium,MVM
join:2001-01-03
Royal Oak, MI
·Comcast
| No, it's not every Friday night. Loss of sync tends to occur around high residential phone usage times historically here. This includes week nights, weekends and holidays. Not always, just most-the-time.
This is across (supposedly) at least 3 different dry pairs and 2 line-shared pairs over 5 years or so. It's also on both Ameritech and (now) Covad DSLAMs.
This is the first time I've seen data indicating what looks like a similar pattern. Notice the small dip Saturday before noon - that's typical, too. Sunday can be bad but not this week.
No, I didn't loose sync *every* Saturday (EDIT: Friday!) night. It was just one of the times I typically would. Get the idea?
Something at the CO can certainly affect only the higher ADSL frequencies and, thus, downstream to me. However, upstream at lower frequencies ("Upstream noise Margin") stays locked at 16db. You'd think it would affect reception there.
Too bad I can't replay Friday night in FastPath. I hate data speculation.
[text was edited by author 2003-04-14 20:27:34] |
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gdm
Premium,MVM
join:2001-06-15
Mchenry, IL
clubs: | Bill,
Ok I got you now. I still can't believe high phone usage would cause this issue. I don't know enough to say yes or no but just find it hard to believe. |
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Bill_MI
Bill In Michigan
Premium,MVM
join:2001-01-03
Royal Oak, MI
·Comcast
| If you saw the 1-1/2 miles of buried 60-year-old phone lines near me you would. No phone tech EVER wants to go down in that hole and they never do - they just swap out pairs until things settle (sigh). My theory has always been cross-talk due to old, damp, wire bundles. Anything to my house has to go through this mess.
EDIT: Then there's creative phone servicing. Notice I said "supposedly" 3 pairs. Well, "supposedly", I had bridge-taps removed, pairs swapped, etc. etc. several times back in 1998 trying to fix me. Funny... no interruption looking like such ever occurred and I ping-test every 15 seconds. They must be MAGIC! (off the sarcasm for now ).
[text was edited by author 2003-04-14 20:42:41] |
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gdm
Premium,MVM
join:2001-06-15
Mchenry, IL
clubs: | That's right I forgot about the OLD phone wiring in your area. Never mind I am done responding about your drops now:) |
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Bill_MI
Bill In Michigan
Premium,MVM
join:2001-01-03
Royal Oak, MI
·Comcast
| Oh, I forgot to say 784/784 SDSL was *solid* on the same dry pair Ameritech ADSL was bad on.
And my standing offer to any phone company insider. A steak dinner for the guy/gal that finds me a clean ADSL line! (it's audibly perfect already). |
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Bill_MI
Bill In Michigan
Premium,MVM
join:2001-01-03
Royal Oak, MI
·Comcast
| Just an Update
I'm glad of one thing - the noise margin downstream does seem to now follow past problems I have which may show up in FastPath. I've always said nights, weekends and holidays were the bad times.
The noise margin downstream is now following this closely - it really didn't correlate on the old firmware. The "dips" are Friday, minor on Saturday and EASTER SUNDAY. Gee, I remember being without service all Memorial Day weekend in 1998 - that's when I first noticed holidays are bad. High residential phone use times is my key.
[text was edited by author 2003-04-20 22:09:22] |
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