epro
join:2000-10-04
Bothell, WA
| VONAGE Residential to Business Switch SCAM?
Has anybody else had this problem with Vonage billing/business practices? My wife signed up for their $25.99 Unlimited Local/Regional
service plan which includes 500 minutes of Long distance. Our service and use of vonage is strictly residential, and we are not engaged in any business activity in our home.
Saturday afternoon, we received an email message from Vonage customer support. The key portion of their message is shared below.
"We are contacting you regarding your Vonage DigitalVoice account. Our
audit system has flagged your account as having activity consistent
with business usage.
This is not permitted under the residential terms of service. As such,
we are transferring your service to the Business Unlimited Plan at a
rate of $69.99/month. You will be charged the difference for the
current billing cycle (02 - 03) immediately and then your plan will be
changed permanently on Apr 16, 2003."
Within a few minutes, VONAGE took it upon themselves to Upgrade our account to a $69.00 unlimited Business plan. Our credit card was also immediately charged the prorated increase.
While we immediately attempted to reach their customer service by phone late Saturday afternoon, those attempts were unsuccessful. So far, we have responded to each of their 8 emails which arrived Saturday Afternoon, clearly DISPUTING their action.
Unfortunately calls to their office first thing this morning, have not resulted in speaking with anyone (a manager) who has been able to help. The representatives who I did speak with, did promise that a manager would call us back by Tuesday. So far, that call has not happened.
At this point, I am understandably upset, and my wife is LIVID!
We are suspicious this tactic might be widespread, and is an attempt to extort more fees from it's customer base.
Has this happened to anyone else?
[text was edited by author 2003-04-14 23:40:10] |
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VoipNut0
join:2003-04-14
Boca Raton, FL
|  Re: Vonage Unlimited Billing / Business Practices Prob
Epro, I am in the same boat as you, I have had the service for a few months and bam, I get hit with the kiss of death letter! But thats not all check out where we are headed next to the link below talks about a $149.00 rate plan that I have never heard about?
I have made a dozen attempts to get clarification on this situation, nothing has been resolved, and not sure what I will do?
Seems as though Vonage has 20,000 customers and wants to maximize their existing base by jacking rates!
Must have to pay for those expensive Howard Stern commercials!
We are contacting you regarding your Vonage DigitalVoice account. Our
audit system has flagged your account as having activity consistent
with business usage.
This is not permitted under the residential terms of service. As such,
we are transferring your service to the Business Unlimited Plan at a
rate of $69.99/month. You will be charged the difference for the
current billing cycle (06 - 07) immediately and then your plan will be
changed permanently on Apr 01, 2003. For more information, please
refer to this link »www.vonage.com/dme/.
We do appreciate your business and trust that you will continue to find
Vonage DigitalVoice's service a reliable and cost-effective solution.
If you have any questions, please contact us at 1-VONAGE-HELP (1-866-
243-4357) between the hours of 8:00am and 9:00pm EST or by responding
to email.
Thank you for your business.
Sincerely,
Billing Department |
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CelticFlyer
join:2003-04-07
Cincinnati, OH
| reply to epro
Apart from taking the issue up with Vonage I hope you have immediately contacted the relevant credit card company and not only disputed the charge but make a formal complaint about Vonage's business practice. The credit card companies need to know they are doing this because at best it is sharppractice and at worst it is potentially in breach of their merchant agreement. |
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epro
join:2000-10-04
Bothell, WA
| reply to VoipNut0
Dear VoIPNut,
Thank you for weighing in on this matter.
We are continuing attempts to reach them by phone, however it appears the managers are avoiding our calls.
After reviewing our online statement, we found they had DOUBLE BILLED us for shipping charges.
This whole matter has caused us to take a closer look at VONAGE, the company.
The call quality of the service has been impressive, however it is the ugly side of their business practices
that is overshadowing their call quality. |
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rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
| I haven't been flagged (yet) but I have to agree. I've been in a several-week-long 911 address snafu. They claim they don't know where my address is. I keep telling them this is my address. Customer care responded and suggested that I change the Xyz Dr to XYZ DR. (The capitalization of my address might be the cause of a mismatch.) I tried to do that but their page wouldn't let me change the capitalization. The page was smart enough to know that XYZ DR and Xyz Dr were the same addresses! I had to change it to a bogus address and then change it back to the correct, all CAPS address. Still didn't help matters.
Bottom line: Great technology with questionable backoffice procedures/policies/support. Very unfortunate that the technology is being tarnished by a poorly executed business plan. I guess that's why a lot of companies go out of business.
Can I ask how many minutes each of you used before being black flagged? |
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epro
join:2000-10-04
Bothell, WA
| oops, I posted twice by accident.
Sorry guys and gals for my cyber error.
SEE POST BELOW
[text was edited by author 2003-04-14 23:13:40] |
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epro
join:2000-10-04
Bothell, WA
| reply to rradina
Hi,
You asked a great question, and I hope this information assists you.
In-Plan Minutes used: 348
In-Plan Minutes remaining: Unlimited
Regional Minutes used: 2427
Free In-Network Minutes used: 477
Free In-Account Minutes used: 0
Free Toll Free Minutes used: 43
Remember, they changed the online billing menu on our Vonage account Saturday afternoon, when they all of a sudden upgraded our account from a $25.99 to $ 69 plan, without notice. I do believe the call minutes shown above were carried over from the plan we should have.
We live in Everett( Area 425), Wa which is about 30 miles north of (206 area) Seattle. The Vonage 25.99 plan with UNLIMITED local/regional appealed to us. Before we ported our number from Verizon to Vonage, Verizon charged a call between Seattle and Everett as a Toll call.
While the local/regional minutes may appear to be high, I say...SO WHAT!!!
We signed up for their residential service plan.
I am disabled, and haven't worked since 1986. The telephone and my computer is my connection to the world out there.
So, when they say we look like we have business activity, it is laughable, simply makes the folks at Vonage look pretty stupid.
BTW, If they had bothered to check the call logs, they would have seen the calls both incoming and outgoing are between only a dozen different numbers.
I will admit, that we as a family, can get windy on the phone. I can assure the usage hawks at Vonage I ain't making no money from having their service in my house.
If this were business activity, logic would tell us that 2400 local minutes would contain hundreds of different numbers called/received.
This is beginning to look like the New Jersey Sopranos in an attempt to shakedown (extort) more money from customers. |
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gatzdon
join:2002-10-25
Lake Zurich, IL
| reply to CelticFlyer
said by CelticFlyer  :
Apart from taking the issue up with Vonage I hope you have immediately contacted the relevant credit card company and not only disputed the charge but make a formal complaint about Vonage's business practice. The credit card companies need to know they are doing this because at best it is sharppractice and at worst it is potentially in breach of their merchant agreement.
I am not saying I support this, but Vonage's TOS states that by using any credit card with them, you are giving them perpetual permission to charge that card at any point in the future for any amount they feel that you owe them. (note: a credit card is the only acceptable form of payment with vonage). Verbage similar to this is popping up in many other types of contracts also (e.g. cell phone contracts, Bally's contracts, etc...)
I don't like it and you shouldn't either. You will obviously need to send Vonage a written letter disputing the charges. You should also speak with your credit card company. Even though there is no outright fraud, but the cc company may elect to take measures to minimize potential damages, but this won't happen unless Vonage makes several charges in combination with not cooperating with the cc company. You will also need to notify your cc company in writing to preserve your rights. (FYI, you only need to send these initial letters via first class mail, i.e 37¢ stamp. If someone denies receiving a letter, make sure you send a second one via certified mail within 60 days of the statement closing date that contained the charge. Do not bother with return receipt as you can't send that to a PO Box and most employees are informally instructed to not sign for anything anyway.)
Oh and the question on most people's mind of course is: How many minutes are considered business usage? Also, was there a pattern of calling many different numbers?
The scenario that comes to mind is the family with several teenage daughters who essentially could manage to use more than 3000 minutes in a month.
--
If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you even tried in the first place! |
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gatzdon
join:2002-10-25
Lake Zurich, IL
| reply to epro
said by epro :
BTW, If they had bothered to check the call logs, they would have seen the calls both incoming and outgoing are between only a dozen different numbers.
You got your post in before mine, so you already answered one of my questions. If this is true, then the only way Vonage can prove business usage is to violate wire tapping and privacy laws (yes wire tapping laws still apply as a portion of the call still goes over standard phone lines).
I suggest you make a printout of all of your activity logs just in case they accidentally get deleted with your account if you leave Vonage before this is resolved.
I am not defending Vonage, but you have to remember that much of what Vonage does is automated. So this is probably a result of a poorly written program for flagging potential business users, not following up with a phone call to verify, and not even putting the human eye to whatever data they did have access to. If you can get to a manager high enough up, I suspect you may be able to clear this up easily. I won't give you any names, but if you search the archives here, I think you can find someone to PM who might be able to give you some contact information.
On a positive note, keep the same patient and polite attitude you have shown here and you will get this resolved, unfortunately, it just takes a long time.
PS. I would change the title to: "Vonage switch me from residential to business" and you will probably get a lot more readers. In the beginning, many have questioned this clause in the TOS, but to my recollection, this is the first someone has posted that it actually happened to them.
--
If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you even tried in the first place! |
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epro
join:2000-10-04
Bothell, WA
| reply to gatzdon
Thank you GATZdon,
I greatly appreciate your suggestion(s) regarding dealing with the credit card company.
I do want to be clear, we do not object to paying for what we ordered. We are upset with the manner Vonage almost tripled our rate on a Saturday afternoon, when they didn't have anyone around their office to take a call from an upset residential customer.
In addition to the stated policy within the VONAGE TOS, we as the customer have a reasonable expectation that the company should not and/or will not abuse the customer's credit card they have been entrusted with.
Additionally, you asked and shared an excellent observation regarding family phone usage. FYI, there is Hubby, wife , and three beautiful daughters. We are all very active talkers, as to the reason, I have outlawed cell phones in this family:) |
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gatzdon
join:2002-10-25
Lake Zurich, IL
| Just be glad that your cc was not tied to a checking account. With the CC, you will not be out any money you owe, but with a checking account, the money is gone until you can get it back. This was not fraud or theft, but merely a mistake on Vonage's part, therefore your bank would not be as helpful as you might like. Imagine if you used your checking account to pay your electric bill and the guy who reads your meter misread it by 1000KWh thus overcharging your checking by $800. Even if they correct it by the next day, you could have potentially bounced some checks.
Well, goodluck, document everything (especially names and times for all phone conversations) and be patient. Nothing happens fast at Vonage when it comes to Customer Service, but they have been striving to improve lately. If you can get this corrected by the end of your billing cycle, I would consider that a significant improvement for Vonage.
--
If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you even tried in the first place! |
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Sparky12
join:2000-02-27
Nokomis, FL | reply to epro
Re: VONAGE Residential to Business Switch SCAM?
I'm referring this thread to someone in Vonage support who's been vocal on these boards before. I think we should see these problems addressed publicly.
Sparky |
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epro
join:2000-10-04
Bothell, WA
| reply to epro
I just wanted to keep everybody up to speed on this matter, of my Vonage residential service getting upgraded this past weekend, without my approval.
I just received a message in my browser, from a Brooke Schulz, who identified herself as a public relations person at Vonage.
7m : 2003-04-14 20:51:25 : From vonage_rep
hello epro --
I am the Public Relations person at Vonage and I will have a manager call you first thing in the morning to discuss this issue with you. Please email your phone number and name so we can contact you to: brooke.schulz@vonage.com
Thank you and I apologize for the delay in contacting you regarding this matter.
Best regards --
Brooke Schulz
732-528-2627
Dear Ms. Schulz,
Thank you for your message. I have tried to call you a few minutes ago, however reached your voice mail.
Here is the account information you requested:
Jeomja Yeo
Phone Number: [removed by mod]
email [removed by mod]
Any assistance you can provide in resolving this matter is greatly appreciated. Please consider me a night owl, and I can be reached anytime.
[text was edited by moderator] |
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LA Rock
join:2003-04-07
Los Angeles, CA
|  reply to epro
If Vonage does not resolve the problem to your satisfaction, you may consider filing a complaint with the Attorney General of New Jersey, David Samson, for consumer fraud.
Vonage does promote their $25.99 service as "UNLIMITED" LOCAL and REGIONAL regional calling. If indeed the calls that you mentioned are to "residence" numbers, I believe it would be difficult for Vonage to substantiate their claim of business usage. Unless, they actually spent time monitoring the content of your calls, which would be illegal.
With this type of action, Vonage may see a decline in their customer base and I seriously doubt they will reach their goal of 120,000 customers by the end of this year.
If Vonage tries to pull this on me they WILL BE HISTORY! I have two alternatives to Vonage here, Packet8 and SBC. Of course if Vonage mucks this up, the reality of unlimited nationwide calling will be history. The ILEC's (SBC/Verizon) will drop their offerings like "hot potatoes" without competition. |
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epro
join:2000-10-04
Bothell, WA
| said by LA Rock :
Vonage does promote their $25.99 service as "UNLIMITED" LOCAL and REGIONAL regional calling. If indeed the calls that you mentioned are to "residence" numbers, I believe it would be difficult for Vonage to substantiate their claim of business usage. Unless, they actually spent time monitoring the content of your calls, which would be illegal.
Thanks LA ROCK,
We are a family of telephone yackers. Just as our entire household is addicted to the internet, I sometimes think our daughters will grow telephone in their ears.
If we have a phone, yes we will use it!!!
Their attempt and method of operation, to grab more money from us monthly, suspiciously resembles mafia shakedown tactics. |
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LA Rock
join:2003-04-07
Los Angeles, CA
| Yeah, I had to go with their $39.99 unlimited plan, because I'm in the 323 area of LA and blocks away from 818 and 310 which are part of SBC/Pac Bell's local calling area, but not included with Vonage. It looks like Vonage limited calling here in LA to extort more money out of users, whereas other metropolitan areas include all the area codes for the region. |
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blohner
join:2002-06-26
Cortlandt Manor, NY
clubs:
 ·Vonage
 ·Optimum Online
| said by LA Rock :
Yeah, I had to go with their $39.99 unlimited plan, because I'm in the 323 area of LA and blocks away from 818 and 310 which are part of SBC/Pac Bell's local calling area, but not included with Vonage. It looks like Vonage limited calling here in LA to extort more money out of users, whereas other metropolitan areas include all the area codes for the region.
I would not go that far... They just defined the boundaries differently.
Example: Verizon's local/regional area for me stretches about 100 miles south/east from where I am but only about 10 miles north. Vonage stretches about 25 miles south and 25 miles north (right smack in the middle) - so for me it works out more balanced... Generally: if you are at the fringe of a LATA (which is what the regular carries typically use as boundaries) vonage's calling area is probably better. If a LATA spans many area codes the regular carrier might be better... But then again - noone forces you to take Vonage...
--
I am addicted to speed --- OOL speed that is |
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midlife2
Fruit Of The Loom Sucks.
join:2002-05-23
Jamestown, KY
| reply to epro
WOW. Well it has been a while since ive visited this forum...i was a complete vonage supporter since the beginning until this...i mean they should at least contact you and ask you about your usage or send a warning letter...then perhaps take some action..i swear if anyone charges my card because im using my so-called "unlimited" package ill claim fraud quick fast. man i knew there would eventually be something come alot to screw up vonage...just like everything else. Well hopefully everything gets resolved for you fella. I have serious doubts that i would have remained quite as calm as you seem. That would have really pissed me off supreme |
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redwillow
join:2003-04-15
Chicopee, MA
|  reply to epro
Re: Vonage Unlimited Billing / Business Practices Prob
Hello, I have a few critical questions to get a better picture of your situation.
The 2427 Local/Regional minutes used. Did you use that in 1 week, 2 weeks, 3 weeks, or 1 month? What was your Local/Regional usage last month, and the months before that?
Did Vonage give you a warning before they bumped up your account to the business account? Did they allow you a chance to cancel your account?
This information would be most helpful as to create a bigger and more complete picture of your usage and situation. |
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WeKnSmith
join:2001-08-09
Noblesville, IN
 ·AT&T Midwest
| Not that I condone this type of activity, but I was wondering if we were ever going to get to the point when someone got upset enough to create an anti-Vonage site to dispute their issue.
Funny, but Vonage already thought of that. They registered the .com/.net/.org:
Registrant:
vonage holdings (JQEFJAVIGD)
2147 route 27
edison, NJ 08817
US
Domain Name: VONAGESUCKS.COM
Administrative Contact:
vonage holdings (SZAMKDFCPO) itadmin@vonage.com
vonage holdings
2147 route 27
edison, NJ 08817
US
732-528-2611
Technical Contact:
VeriSign, Inc. (HOST-ORG) namehost@WORLDNIC.NET
VeriSign, Inc.
21355 Ridgetop Circle
Dulles, VA 20166
US
1-888-642-9675
Record expires on 03-Jul-2003.
Record created on 03-Jul-2002.
I am sure that there are lots of other variations out there for people to think up. Or maybe Vonage will slip up and forget to renew the domain name (well, until I posted this). |
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