vfpguy
Alias Dotnetguy
join:2001-07-21
Wayne, NJ
| [Spoiler] Enterprise How the hell could they write and air that thing without knowing they would blow the Star Trek timeline all to hell.
Didn't Picard & Co. know nothing about the Borg when Q flung the Enterprise out there? (What was that ep name?)
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"...a great, serene and peaceful future can slip from us quite as irrevocably by neglect, division and inaction, as by spectacular disaster." -- H. Truman, 6/21/56 | |
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clyde_
It's A Chrysalis, Not A Cocoon
Premium
join:2001-05-02
Easley, SC
| Re: [Spoiler] Enterprise I agree, they just blew everything that was established about the Borg in Next Generation and Voyager out of the water. Within the first fifteen minutes of the show, we learned about the nanoprobes and how they assisted in regeneration. By the end we not only learned the basics of assimilation, but also how the Borg adapt to new technology and put it to their own uses. And gee whiz we even know the general direction from where they're from, it shouldn't have been any surprise when Picard met up with the Borg later. There should have already been entire entries in the Starfleet database detailing who they were with caution about meeting up with them in the future.
Don't get me wrong, other then the horrible continuity issues, it was a pretty decent episode. It was kind of cool to see how a couple Borg started with nothing and eventually began to build a new army. It was also cool to watch Enterprise struggle against the alien technology and figure out how to overcome it. But unfortunately they chose to reveal way too much about the Borg for this point in time. It's just stupid because if it really happened this way humanity would have been better prepared to face the Borg the next time they met.
Oh goodie, next week we see T'Pol go through Pon Far. Supposedly another first that wasn't witnessed before Spock in ToS.
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"It's a butterfly!" -- kid from the MSN 8 commercial | |
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Nighttime
join:2001-11-30
| And I though Andromida was bad! Sheech! What are these nuts think of!
Roddenberry must be spinning at about 10,000 rpm right now!
I remember the letter writing campain for the orginal series to keep it on... Should we have a letter writing to have them kill the series or at least fire the nuts at the top?
Sorry to be so angry but getting tied of "when we have no ideas just do a time or BORG story!" Its getting a bit old. | |
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Rygel
Learn How To Use Reply
Premium
join:2001-11-17
Malone, NY
clubs:
| They're on a different branch of the timeline.
You have to remember the stuff in all the other series has happened yet.
Anytime there is time travel you run into alternate realities.
I haven't seen the ep yet but that's the explanation you'd get from the writers.
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I'm as horny as a two peckered billy goat. | |
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Snakeoil
Taxes are Armed robbery.
Premium
join:2000-08-05
Mentor, OH
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| Don't forget, there are many events in our own history we don't know about because some people decided it was best to "cover them up' than it was to record them.
I didn't watch the show, I'll catch it on the weekend, but it sounds interesting.
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I killed my friend of ten years today. He was faithful to me, and all I could do was kill him in his time of need. | |
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vfpguy
Alias Dotnetguy
join:2001-07-21
Wayne, NJ
| At the end of "Regeneration" it was revealed that the Borg had sent a message deep into the Delta quadrant with the coordinates for Earth and that it would take 400 years for the message to get there.
The Borg that were found in the Arctic got there because of the events of "First Contact" which had a Borg ship traveling 400 years back in time to assimilate Earth and prevent the development of warp drive.
Paradox! How could the Borg know where Earth was if they didn't get the coordinates until the Borg that traveled back in time sent it to them?
"Alternate realities" is a convenient way to get around "oops we wrote ourselves into a corner.".
Yes there are cover ups but why would Starfleet cover up important information from themselves?
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"...a great, serene and peaceful future can slip from us quite as irrevocably by neglect, division and inaction, as by spectacular disaster." -- H. Truman, 6/21/56 | |
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BigBaz
Repeat Offender
join:2001-02-09
Wheeling, IL
| Re: [Spoiler] Enterprise said by vfpguy  :
Paradox! How could the Borg know where Earth was if they didn't get the coordinates until the Borg that traveled back in time sent it to them?
As I see it, the Borg in "First Contact" knew where the Earth was because Q jumped the Enterprise ahead to meet them, and got their interest. Then, they assimilated some humans when they found them, and thus learned the coordinates of Earth so they could head there for "First Contact". Just a theory, though.
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Mayberry meets Star Trek | |
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Sniper3142
Slapsho3142
join:2002-01-25
Tustin, CA
| It should come as no surprise that the writers of this P.O.S. are destroying the original Star Trek timeline.
These writers haven't come up with a single ORIGINAL storyline, plot, or idea at all.
They're redone storylines from all the previous ST shows and even copying stuff from Dr. Who for pete sake!
This show doesn't deserve the name Star Trek in it's title.
Oh wait.....
I DOESN'T HAVE THE NAME STAR TREK ANYWHERE IN IT'S TITLE!! | |
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wolfmanrobby
Define Normal
Premium
join:2002-04-29
Jefferson, GA
clubs:
| Well, if I remember, the Borg did access the Enterprise D's main computer during that first encounter.
Not to mention that they had Picard as part of the collective for a while. You know they had full run of his knowledge.
Robby
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Rygel
Learn How To Use Reply
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join:2001-11-17
Malone, NY
clubs: | Find Mike Okuda's email address he's the keeper of the Star Trek timeline.
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Skipdawg
The Original
Premium,ExMod 2001-03
join:2001-04-19
The Void | If you have watched all the TV series and movies it made perfect sense. Did you all miss something? 
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Shipon
Roflcopter
Premium
join:2001-12-05
Anaheim, CA
| I was laughing my ass off as I saw last night's episode. I mean...the obvious references to First Contact(but, that movie was great).
This is why time travel is too messy for even science fiction. I'd rather this was an "accurate" representation of what would have happened before the Federation was formed. The only way this could possibly be explained is if this series is actually an alternate reality(which might even be possible if it is revealed so at the end of the series).
The plot of that episode would have been more interesting had it not violated the whole timeline, however. They really need to get their asses in gear and get some interesting plots before the show gets even more boring.
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Spore Cloud
I H8 Computers
join:2001-09-09
Burleson, TX
| I think the episode was kinda cool dispite it totally screwing over the ST timeline, but what I did think that was kinda lame was how many Borg they were are to kill before they adapted, in TNG they could only shoot like what 3 times before they adapted? They killed like twice that.
and isint pon far supposed to be something that only Male Vulcans go through? lol.. | |
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| jsouth
Jsouth
join:2000-12-12
Wichita, KS
|  Re: [Spoiler] Enterprise
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Shipon
Roflcopter
Premium
join:2001-12-05
Anaheim, CA | The whole thing about there being more than 3 shots before they adapt is just a plot device to make sure that the Enterprise crew isn't overwhelmed too much | |
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Spore Cloud
I H8 Computers
join:2001-09-09
Burleson, TX | Re: [Spoiler] Enterprise Yea, its so sad. Damn I wish Gene was still alive. Star Trek would probably still have its damn integrity. | |
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jlv
Cantankerous - Can't take errors
join:2001-11-02
Southborough, MA
| Star Trek integrity == oximoron said by Spore Cloud :
I wish Gene was still alive. Star Trek would probably still have its damn integrity.
Gene Roddenberry slipped the IDIC medal into an TOS 3rd season episode... so that he could later sell them. Integrity? | |
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Logan 5
Wondering what happens next..
Premium,MVM
join:2001-05-25
The WasteLAN
 ·Pacific Bell - SBC
| Re: Star Trek integrity == oximoron said by jlv :
Gene Roddenberry slipped the IDIC medal into an TOS 3rd season episode... so that he could later sell them. Integrity?
Not trying to bash you, but do you have any factual evidence for this statement??
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jlv
Cantankerous - Can't take errors
join:2001-11-02
Southborough, MA
| said by Logan 5 :
Not trying to bash you, but do you have any factual evidence for this statement??
Leonard Nimoy recounts the events behind the Roddenberry's script changes for the 3rd season episode Is There In Truth No Beauty? in a book - I'm pretty sure it was in William Shatner's book Star Trek Memories (link to amazon). | |
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Logan 5
Wondering what happens next..
Premium,MVM
join:2001-05-25
The WasteLAN
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| Honestly, what Paramount needs to do if they EVER want a shot at saving the ST franchise is get & keep Brannon & Braga as far away from a plot-line or Star Trek series as possible.
IMHO it's those two who have collectively done more to ruin the franchise than anything that Paramount or UPN could ever do, even intentionally.
They ran out of credible ideas back at the end of ST:TNG, but because GR saw something in them that he liked, I think that they were/are allowed to linger on well past the time they should have turned the reigns over to their successors who would have brought new story-lines, plot arcs, etc. to keep the series fresh. Because of this, instead of innovation, there was imitation. The same old script ideas were being constantly rotated between the different ST series so viewers who watched the various offerings would notice extreme similarities between many of the plotlines across the 5 series...
I personally have yet to see the controversial *Borg* episode, but will watch it this weekend. If it's as bad as others here have indicated, then perhaps it is time for Paramount to retire Star Trek for good and let it die with at least some semblance of decency and credit to Gene Roddenberry for his vision back in 1966 to make the last 30+ years something to remember.
To me, Star Trek died when Gene did.......
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Shipon
Roflcopter
Premium
join:2001-12-05
Anaheim, CA
| Re: [Spoiler] Enterprise said by Logan 5 :
Honestly, what Paramount needs to do if they EVER want a shot at saving the ST franchise is get & keep Brannon & Braga as far away from a plot-line or Star Trek series as possible.
IMHO it's those two who have collectively done more to ruin the franchise than anything that Paramount or UPN could ever do, even intentionally.
They ran out of credible ideas back at the end of ST:TNG, but because GR saw something in them that he liked, I think that they were/are allowed to linger on well past the time they should have turned the reigns over to their successors who would have brought new story-lines, plot arcs, etc. to keep the series fresh. Because of this, instead of innovation, there was imitation. The same old script ideas were being constantly rotated between the different ST series so viewers who watched the various offerings would notice extreme similarities between many of the plotlines across the 5 series...
I personally have yet to see the controversial *Borg* episode, but will watch it this weekend. If it's as bad as others here have indicated, then perhaps it is time for Paramount to retire Star Trek for good and let it die with at least some semblance of decency and credit to Gene Roddenberry for his vision back in 1966 to make the last 30+ years something to remember.
To me, Star Trek died when Gene did.......
I seriously hope that Star Trek doesn't end. The whole series has so much possibilities, yet the writers are getting lazier.
Well, the episode itself wouldn't have been so bad had the Borg been unknown in the series that were set further in the future.
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OC Forum: They have overclocking, I have overblabbing.
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seaquake
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-23
Millersville, MD
clubs: 
 ·Verizon FIOS
| I think the Borg's transwarp drive is able to completely throw out the Star Trek time line. It was even done prior in Voyager when they did the history of 7's family. They were searching for the "mystical" Borg in the 30,000's (stardate, that is). The first Picard and Crew learn of the borg is in the 42,000's (second season, TNG). You get the overall sense that the Federation had no clue about the borg (not even rumors) when Shelby comes on board at the end of the 3rd season (1 year later).
She makes mention that Starfleet had been working feverishly on defenses and weapons to combat the borg for the past 1+ year, but didn't that the borg would show up for years.
The motivation of the Borg has changed over time, Too. When Picard and Co. first met the borg, they were described as a race that was only interested in raw materials. They didn't try to assimilate the Enterprise...they tried to "eat" it! It wasn't until The Best of Both Worlds that we ever heard of the Borg Assimilating alien cultures. Persumably, at that time, it was the first time the borg would assimilate in order to conquer humanity (ie, it was a plot). But as the borg race grew, the impression was given that they "always" assimilated.
Bottom line, the Borg are assimilating the Star Trek Franchise.
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"Are you on the Distributed Computing Map?" | |
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Nighttime
join:2001-11-30
| Maybe the problem is this. I remember seeing the orginal ST in first runs in that time peroid of the 1960's. What made it interting and compelling was they took on actual real stories, events and problems of the turmoil of that time and put a light covering of SciFi on it to be abble to discuss it.
Remember the race that had two color skin and the final outcome? STTNG "Inner light" was in this vain also. I can remember these as vivid as the first time I saw them but have problems with the stories they are cranking out right now. Just too darn "PC". I would agree "Carbon Creek" was good and intersting but the rest are hack stories. | |
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jhboricua
ExMod 2000-01
join:2000-06-06
Minneapolis, MN
clubs:
| All I have to say is that there is no way they are going to convince me that 24th century Borg were defeated so easy by 22nd Century humans. God is like the Borg get weaker and weaker every time they show up in ST, except this time their enemy was 200 years behind in the technology curve!!! And the Doc's resistance and solution to the nanoprobes in his body was laughable. Even Beverly couldn't do anything about them in the 24th Century when they were on Picard until he got cut off from the collective.
There is so many holes I can't actually believe they made this chapter.
Next time we know the TNG crew will made a guest showing in some elaborate plot by Q.
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Nighttime
join:2001-11-30
| As one of my prof's said may time to our group, you could drve a truck though that hole!!! Actualy drive the truck sidways though it fits better.
Would have been better to have Q's voice saying at the end something to the effect. "I better watch these humans. They could be dangerious and have no idea what is out there. May need to test them further in the future. But for now will let all parties forget this...."
But the people in charge have ripped up the time line before like no WWIII but Kan's and company takeover then final leaving of Earth. But in First Contact and the first STTNG they did have WWIII! | |
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| vfpguy
Alias Dotnetguy
join:2001-07-21
Wayne, NJ
| Re: [Spoiler] Enterprise said by Nighttime :
Would have been better to have Q's voice saying at the end something to the effect. "I better watch these humans. They could be dangerious and have no idea what is out there. May need to test them further in the future. But for now will let all parties forget this...."
Now THAT I could have accepted!
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"...a great, serene and peaceful future can slip from us quite as irrevocably by neglect, division and inaction, as by spectacular disaster." -- H. Truman, 6/21/56 | |
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lazarus_
join:2002-08-31
Resolute, NU | I don't even watch Enterprise anymore.. lol its getting too gay even for me. | |
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