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shuntva
join:2003-07-20
Falls Church, VA
|  NorVergence Continued
NorVergence has descended on me as well -- and my BS meter went sky high. Just too "on message" for me.
My primary concern is the 5 year contract - especially if they are out of business in one or less. I have agreed to get them contract data and get a proposal but also intend to do a LOT more digging before agreeing to the deal.
My strategy is to look at this contract as a cell service alternative and any added data T-1 support as just gravy. With 30+ cell phones in the local area I think we have a reasonable basis for getting a payback in less than a year. If so then our risk is minimal.
KEEP POSTING your observations so we can all benefit from this effort. | |
|  joein610
join:2003-07-03
Media, PA
| Re: NorVergence Continued There are a FEW other companies that Do the SAME THING..
STAY TUNED... I've heard a few reports from different people.
Norvergence called my father-in-law with 3 telephone lines?? and they want to meet with him... Give me a break!
I think they are 100% scripted because of Lawsuits.. They dont want to say the wrong things!!!
Out of over 25 Posts.. How come NOBODY on this Board has NORVERGENCE UP and RUNNING????? THEY have 1000+ Customer as they Claim !!!
Joe V | |
| jimgriggs
join:2003-06-21
Houston, TX
| Has anyone used NorVergence for broadband? I don't get it and they refuse to give any details. We are in an area that exceeds the 18,000 foot distance limit from the central office. I wonder if their system would allow dsl to work. If so, at what data rate? It sounds like a scam to me. Their website is not much help. They make a lot of references to Fortune 500 Corporations and Nortel. I wonder if Nortel even knows who they are. They want to come out for an appointment to "see if I qualify". I think what they do is get you to say how much your total monthly communication costs are and then sell you a five year contract at something less than your current cost. They call that free. The problem is signing a contract with a third party leasing company for five years. If NorVergence goes out of business in a year, you are stuck paying for worthless equipment and have to go back to your current system. It bothers me that no one who is using them has responded with details. | |
| | nyctechnobab
join:2003-07-22
Newark, NJ
| Re: NorVergence Continued I can answer your questions: Norvergence is hardly going out of business anytime. They will be in 40 markets by January, and still growing.
But so what anyway, once you have the matrix box- your on an unlimited calling circuit from Qwest and a local loop from your local provider. You pay your local loop to whomever @ 160 whatever, and pay your rental of the matrix and go on down the road. Norvergence only qualified your company for it and provisioned the services.
I bought a Dell laptop, but if they go out of business I can still use it I suppose.
Everyones concerned about thier affiliation with the big guys. Nortel networks engineered the solution, and Qwest provides the unlimited calling circuit for outbound traffic. Both are the largest in thier respected fields, and fortune 500. The alliance of Norvergence with these companies are on a level of lateral reciprocation which does not warrant a banner on thier websites, or a mention as you say.
Did you know that SBC owns Cingular? Wonder why they do not sell Cingular wireless on the SBC website? Corporate affiliation do not always affiliate themselves on a consumer level. | |
| | | 
stickfigure
join:2002-06-11
El Cajon, CA
| Re: NorVergence Continued Most affiliates do associate themselves. Look at Ford's website, has links to Aston Martin, Volvo, Mazda.... why wouldn't you when you can advertise to more markets using affiliates? By the way you should look closer at SBC's website...
»www02.sbc.com/Products_Services/···,00.html | |
| | | jimgriggs
join:2003-06-21
Houston, TX
| Do you use the service or do you work for Norvergence? What is the answer to my DSL question? Why are the Norvergence telemarketers so evasive about details? Why is there no cost info on the website. Also, the links on the website to Quest and NorTel go to their home pages with no reference to Norvergence. I called Quest Corp. and they had no information about Norvergence. I searched Nortel's site and again nothing about Norvergence. So let's see, $160 per mo. for the service and $xxx.xx per mo. per Matrix Box for the the equipment rental/lease. So how much is x? | |
| | | | 
Marvelous
@uslec.net
| Re: NorVergence Continued I just had a meeting with a Norvergence salesman. The offer does seem too good to be true. One thing I noticed is that in their literature they reference the Nortel Matrix box. I cannot find any product like that from Nortel. Then I noticed the picture on their website and in their literature,
»www.norvergence.com/PDFs/matrix_···lick.pdf
and it's identical to the Adtran Total Access 750 box I currently have from US Lec. I've had this box for over 2 years, hardly new technology.
»www.dealtime.com/xPF-Rayman_Arena
I noticed it's made in Canada so it could be Nortel, but I just wonder if this Matrix box is really just marketing. | |
| | | | | 
roamer1
sticking it out at you
join:2001-03-24
Atlanta, GA
clubs:
| Re: NorVergence Continued said by Marvelous:
Adtran Total Access 750
I think you're right...
I just noticed in the NorVergence PDF they refer to the term "TSU" -- guess what, that's Adtran's name for their line of CSU/DSU products!
Also, I checked the Total Access 750's spec sheet
»www.adtran.com/adtranpx/Doc/0/2L···1-8E.pdf and the Matrix box and the 750 chassis are the same size.
-SC
--
No-Bull SE US Wireless Info: »www.sewireless.info/
Atlanta Apt/Condo Cable & Broadband Info: »www.atlaptcable.info/ | |
| | | | | | joein610
join:2003-07-03
Media, PA
| Re: NorVergence Continued Actually They have a product glossy for their Clients...
and YES its Im sure is an ADTRAN... the TOTAL ACCESS 850 Sell for $2500... SO WHY DO they IT FOR $15,000-$25,000???
AND WITH NORVERGENCE there is NO WARRANTY BY THEM!!
YOU PAY EVEN IF ITS BROKE OR STOLEN!
THEY CANT ANSWER THIS !!!
JOE | |
| | | | | | | joein610
join:2003-07-03
Media, PA
| Re: NorVergence Continued IT NOT New Technology JUST A NEW Technology SCAM....
When someboady signs up for Norvergence... The LEASE is made with the CLIENT and the LEASING Company
NOT
The CLIENT and NORVERGENCE ..
So
1. YOU HAVE to PAY FOR it NO Matter if its Broken or Stolen
2. You Cant Brake the Contract
3. Norvergence Gets all the Money up from front from the Leasing Company.. So they dont even Need Outside Funding
As Long as they Keep Selling Deals they will Never Run out of Money...
But for the BIG BUCKS$$$$$$$ and GETTING Suckered in to a DEAL with NORVERGENCE Consider this FIRST...
- VERIZON Service Plan $35.00 plus Dial Tone Charge and
Unlimited Local and Long Distance
- Alligence Was just into my office and for $29.00/Line you get Unlimited Local and 500 Min of Tolls per Line
- T-Mobile -- Cell Phone 1000 Mins for $39.00
- Comcast will have dial tone in the next few Months
- Vonage.com -- $39.99 UNLIMITED local and long distance calling within the US & Canada.
- AND SO ON AND SO ON...
SO Pay $20,000 for the BOX Its your money and its good for the economy !!!!!
Joe V
joein610@aol.com
Email me if you need any other Norvergence Info or Contracts in PDF form | |
| | | | | | | | mcsquared007
join:2003-08-25
Chicago, IL |  Re: NorVergence Continued
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| | | | | | | | | reg64
join:2003-08-31
Lewisville, TX | Re: NorVergence Continued No I do not work for Verizon. I actually rep for a few resellers and facilities based providers. | |
| | | | | | | | | | reg64
join:2003-08-31
Lewisville, TX | Re: NorVergence Continued By the way, are there any other similar type companies doing what Norvergence is trying to accomplish? | |
| | | | | | | | | | joein610
join:2003-07-03
Media, PA
| Re: NorVergence Continued I have not heard of any Norvergence Competitors Yet...
But then Again Maybe there wont be.. And maybe they even might not Last.. I’m sure they don’t have the Funding and the Sales to keep it Going.. These Days with the economy people are watching what they are spending, so I don’t think they will get ALOT of takers on the 5 Year Contract unless the saving is Extraordinary.
My client had a $8000 / month phone bill and the Best Norvergence could save was under $200/ month... Doesn’t it sound Lame? 2.5% ... Yikes.. Where the Savings??????
Joe | |
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closecall
@chcgil.ameritech
| Re: NorVergence Scam These guys are too smooth with their 3 phase approval process etc... The paperwork looks legitimate but very vague and I still can't find anybody who knows anything about Norvergence.
I am glad I did a Google search and found this link. Thanks for the info, I'm bailing on Norvergence before they install the matrix box I ordered.
I guess smooth sounding salespeople and other reps who called really have their act together. I should have been skeptical when the young lady asked if she could "come around to my side of the desk" to show me the proposal during our second meeting. I'm a sales guy and know this technique, but I let it slide because the money looked to good. $1550 for my costs down to their $1050, a $500/month savings but at what cost?
My DSL works fine and so does the cellular. I can only imagine what a nightmare it must be for those relying on Norvergence to support this equipment.
I wonder if they will make headlines antime soon? | |
| | | | | | | | |
closecall
@chcgil.ameritech | Re: NorVergence Scam I Just found some new jobs posted on Monster from Norvergence. Salespeople with annual incomes of $150K and inside salespeople at $135K. Yeah, their taking our money and paying big $$$ to the reps to keep selling!!! | |
| | | | | | | | | | bhood
join:2003-09-01
Redlands, CA
| Re: NorVergence Scam These posts amaze me. First, because sales people are paid well does not equal scam. Up until 3-years ago I was an outside sales person and would not even look at a job unless it paid more than $100K per year (assuming I did my job). Understand that good sales people make good money. That goes for Norvergence, Sprint, MCI, etc.
Second, of all the posts that I found here, few are from actual customers. A couple describe typcal telecom issues - slow installs, over worked staff, etc. Couple customers that are happy (like me).
But the majority of posts are from people who do not have a clue about the telecom industry at the level Norvergence is playing.
Norvergence is providing a fully MANAGED ATM Media Gateway for $00-$500 per month. THIS IS COMPETATIVE.
This two biggest problems I see are that some sales people are doing the cost justification using cellular costs. Take the cellular away and you can not justify the lease of the Media Gateway.
Second problem is that Norvergence is bringing this solution down to a different level of customer that is not accustom to seeing these types of solutions. Go to any large companies telecom department and they will not blink an eye at this.
I am a happy customer (some install issues but welcome to telecom)and looking to install my third location. I am on my second rep (first was an idiot) and would recomend Norvergence to anyone. | |
| | | | | | | | | | reg64
join:2003-08-31
Lewisville, TX
| Re: NorVergence Scam My big question regarding the Norvergence solution is whether or not it is a good fit for the call center industry. The majority of my clients are currently utilizing dedicated LD with a 6/1 billing platform (6 sec minimum with 1 second billing increments). Also to be considered is compatibility with predictive and auto dialers. Would it work and save money? | |
| | | | | | | | | | orchid1
join:2003-09-10
Los Angeles, CA
|  Norvergence Scam
The sad thing is that two companies can have the same telecom needs (i.e. number of lines, calling patterns, data requirements and cellular) yet if company A is currently getting a better deal from their providers then company B is, company B will pay more for the “matrix” box. It is all entirely based on what the company is currently spending.
This magical box is nothing more than an Adtran IAD (Integrated Access Device retailing for about $500). The really sad thing is that if a customer is just getting DSL or Cable High speed internet, the box does absolutely nothing!!!
As far as shopping for competitive pricing goes…sure, a company can shop prices on a T1, unlimited cellular & unlimited 800 services and if they receive 2 quotes that are less than the pricing with Norvergence, Norvergence will reduce the overall monthly cost. The problem is, I can’t believe a company will find a lower price for a T1 or unlimited cellular. As explained above, all of the money goes into the box and that is funded through a bank. The agreement for the box is between the customer and the bank. Norvergence receives all of that money up front. The customer is responsible to pay the five year lease on the equipment.
Can Norvergence save a company money? Sure they can. They are really a glorified reseller not a matchmaker as I’ve read on this board. Why don’t they just say what they are and do what they do? Because then they would have to put a price on the “magical box”. | |
| | | | | | | | | | bhood
join:2003-09-01
Redlands, CA
| Re: Norvergence Scam
Is Norvergence bundling everything into the price of the hardware? Sure. That is different that what others do and not wrong.
At this present time, two companies can have the same telecom bill with Sprint and pay different amounts.
The way I see it, the biggest problem that Norvergence has is a lack of education on their Salespeople on how the system works.
You sound like a sales person that they hired but based on a limited knowledge what it takes to make a system like this work started screaming scam. Or, a techie with a bad case of pay check envy. | |
| | | | | | | | | | orchid1
join:2003-09-10
Los Angeles, CA
| Re: Norvergence Scam I am neither one, and no you can not just purchase an adtran and the same service. Of course, two different customers of the same carrier can have two different deals. None of what you are saying is not true. The point is, Norvergence will not tell any of their customers the simple truth....the truth is they are basically reselling services and locking them in. End of story.
Yes, you are correct, to say it simply, they are bundling everything into the cost of the hardware. Here's the problem, now the customer is stuck. I know someone with their service right now and they want out. They have had a terrible experience Norvergence...from installation to cell phone frustrations to customer service. Sure they can go get another integrated T1 and new cell phones with a different carrier but they still have to pay for that piece of equipment.....THE SAME PIECE OF EQUIPMENT THAT THE PRICE OF SERVICE IS BUNDLED INTO....ARE YOU FOLLOWING NOW??? | |
| | | | | | | | | | orchid1
join:2003-09-10
Los Angeles, CA | Oh, and bhood, I am very knowledgeable about how this "system" works. The customer is getting an integrated T1....there's nothing fancy or complicated about it. Sounds like your the one lacking knowledge. | |
| | | | | | | | | | orchid1
join:2003-09-10
Los Angeles, CA
| Reading one of your old posts confirms it. You have no clue what you're talking about...A FULLY MANAGED ATM MEDIA GATEWAY??? How about an Integrated T1....nothing new, nothing complicated. All Integrated T1's use an IAD of some sort....just like the Adtran IAD or the "magical" Matrix Box. I don't know what your business is but you should really stick with what you know. | |
| | | | | | | | | | OrlandoJoe
join:2003-09-17
Orlando, FL
| Re: Norvergence Scam OK, OK. You guys can chill. Orchid what you say makes sense. I just think how about we leave it up to the fact that business people own their own business and they can make dumb decisions if they want.
I get the technology and how it works but why is no one else offering the bundled service only yet? Then you could just get an Adtran and be off.
And why should someone not work for Norvergence. Sounds like good money. | |
| | | | | | | | | | salesguy7
join:2003-09-19
| Re: I don't really see big promblem... | |
| | | | | | | | | | orchid1
join:2003-09-10
Los Angeles, CA
| Re: I don't really see big promblem... Salesguy,
This is the problem I have. Why isn't the company honest with the customers about what they are doing? Have you met with a Salesperson from Norvergence? They have a canned "speech", they really can't answer any questions, and they can't tell the truth. The truth is Norvergence is a reseller of Qwest and they have formed relationships with some of the cellular providers. The box has nothing to do with it. The box is the way they get a full five years of telecom revenue upfront. If the customer is DSL or Cable the box does NOTHING at all. The box is truly only necessary if the customer is getting an integrated T1 and it certainly isn't how the customer is provided with unlimited calling. Norvergence salespeople actually tell customers that the box provides Fraud Protection on their cell phones by recording algorithms from cell phone calls made. This is impossible. | |
| | | | | | | | | | salesguy7
join:2003-09-19
| Re: I don't really see big promblem... So let me get this straight, your real problem is with the "canned speech?" A ton of sales folk use canned speeches, its up to us to sift through what we hear & take ownership for the decision we make. With that said, if a rep outright lies about what the box does, then yes that is a problem. How about this: if this were truly a scam, I mean a bonafide scam, the Public Service commission from every state they operate in would have been all over them like flies on you know what, not to mention the State Attorney's office (check NOS Communications dba Quantum Link with their impossible to figure out ld rates). Don't forget telecom is a highly regulated industry & you can't fart sideways without getting slapped with a million dollar fine. And one final note: If you don't know what to make of all this, try going to your state's PSC site and look for complaints lodged against, orders entered against them,or simply call your PSC. I guarantee they will give you an unbaised opinion. How's that? | |
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fcoeste
@chcgil.ameritech
| Re: I don't really see big promblem... I need to make a desicion on wether I should sign this contract with Norvergence or not.
I would be saving a good chunk of money with Norvergence, with it's unlimited long distance calls. The length of the contract does not bother me either.
My main questions are two:
1- What happens if the box breaks or they go under? Am I left with no "dial tone"?
2- What happens if my minutes increase drastically and they start losing money because Q-west costs more to them than the money they collect from my box?
Please, help me here. Thanks | |
| | | | | | | | | | salesguy7
join:2003-09-19
| Re: I don't really see big promblem... Those are the 2 best questions I've seen so far & would like the answer to myself. Hopefully, someone in customer service can answer both or perhaps the answer is in the contract. I will say this however, anyone with a T1 circuit that utilizes an IAD runs the risk of the "box" not working. If there is a problem its usually with the loop from the ILEC & the games they play (thats my personal opinion). Good Luck. | |
| | | | | | | | | | Pinum
join:2003-10-14
Kearny, NJ
| Re: Norvergence Works | |
| | | | | | | | | |
Wanting a job
@pacbell.n
| Ok.... So you're saying the judicial process at the state and federal level would be following these guys like Elliot Ness... Big Leap There! Oh... watch out for the ground coming up at you fast!
If your theory about regulation is true... I wonder why everyone is so pissed about the mutual fund indictments that are now coming on a daily basis? The SEC was really on top of that one? Right? Major Tom?
This company is recruiting me and I really must tell you how they..... Wait. Today is 12/4/03.. I will post after the last post just made. | |
| | | | | | | | | |
CA Tech
| Re: Norvergence Scam You state this is a scam but then you write "I can’t believe a company will find a lower price for a T1 or unlimited cellular."
If someone can't get a better total price then it sounds like a good deal.
BTW, I am a Norvergence customer, referred by my brother-in-law with 4-lines. We are both happy and regardless of "How" they do it, they still do it and not only saved me money, but I got a T1 vs. a very crappy DSL. | |
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See 193 replies to this post | |
| | | | | | | | | PricklyOne
join:2003-11-15
Syracuse, NY
| It is true, Norvergence comes up with the cost of the MATRIX box by taking 30% of you monthly spending, and they do back into the cost of the MATRIX box. Although this business plan seem shady, the solution works and customers really do save 30%. So whats the problem.
I'm a sales rep; whoops, I mean Screening Manager at NorV and by no means am I gung ho Norvergence like some of these posters, who have more of a vested interest in the company's succes than I do. But I've talked to many installed customers and the most common problems is reliabilty w/ the T1, but where NorV differs from most Teleco's that offer Integrated T's is our soultion is truly redundant (I don't want to even get started on their, I mean our, new 800 Direct solution, which unlike the typical NorV solution this puts all your eggs in one basket. Customer beware: stay away, unless you live in Chicago (I don't wanna pollute the minds of my potential customers) | |
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See 13 replies to this post | |
| | | | | | | | | myadog
join:2003-08-27
New York, NY
| said by closecall:
I Just found some new jobs posted on Monster from Norvergence. Salespeople with annual incomes of $150K and inside salespeople at $135K. Yeah, their taking our money and paying big $$$ to the reps to keep selling!!!
Norvergence solution is very simple! They are not a provider of any sorts!!! They are a match maker between the client and the service. They consolidate all telco bills. There is no scam there is no anything. The company has grown 250% since inception and has many positive write ups in many publications! It is human nature for people to be afraid of what they do not know! This is a new solution for the public. The company is not splitting atoms here, just saving people money! And as far as the sales people makeing to much money or that they are all scripted. So be it. I am in sales, good sales people make well over 100k. My brother has this solution i attended the initial meeting with the sales agent. He was very professional! I think all you tech heads should really get up from you PC, take the dog for a walk or go sit in the park. The only thing fugazi here is your knowledge!
-Mark CEO The Hunn Group | |
| | | | | | | | NJuser9
join:2003-11-25
Butler, NJ
| Re: NorVergence Continued Hold on....do you know ANYTHING at all about commercial leasing? Do you know that TONS of phone systems are bought via 5-year lease? It doesn't tie up working capital, it makes for a quicker tax write off, and at the end of the lease you own the equipment. If you want to upgrade your equipment during the term of the lease, the leasing company and the vendor simply figures the cost of the upgrade minus any trade-in, minus what you still owe, and you sign a new lease. Does it matter whose name is on the check? Would you feel better if you made out your monthly check to your vendor instead of to the leasing company? Wake up! Leasing is standard practice in telecom as well as many other fields. Norvergence didn't invent it. | |
| | | | | | worldwidejt
join:2003-09-17
Providence, RI
| Sounds to good to be true always is I am sorry but I have been in this business for 5 years now working hard and honestly. This company NorVergence is all over the northeast all of a sudden and my T1 customers are actually calling me asking why they shouldn't take advantage of this. Are these people kidding me. VoIP, alright I buy the savings on the usage with this Matrix box on the 5 year mortgage but come on unlimited cell phones. One of my customers in Providence, RI actually just signed up with these guys and they promised him 15 cell phones at no charge and he got to pick between Sprint and AT&T. Are these PEZ dispensers or what? I felt like telling him to stay with me and upgrade to a DS3 and I'll pay for his BMW too!!!!!!!!!!!! | |
| | | | | | | orchid1
join:2003-09-10
Los Angeles, CA
| Re: Sounds to good to be true always is
Let your customers know this. They will receive a discount on whatever they are spending now. After the discount, the remaining $'s will be applied to the monthly rental of the "magical" box. The box is a 5 year lease with a bank. They will be responsible for that dollar amount for 5 years. They can change carriers all they want, get a new T1 from another carrier if they want, and, if they are not happy with the cell phone service Norvergence has provided them, they can go to another carrier...whatever they would like....but the bottom line is, they are responsible for the payment of the box...which AGAIN (for those of you who don't grasp it yet) is where all of the bundled services pricing ends up. | |
| | | | | | | | | | | progolfer39
join:2003-09-09
North Attleboro, MA | Hi there! Can anyone please advise me why I should not work for NorVergence? I see all of the horror show postings here and I'm very very afraid!! HELP!!! | |
| | | | | | rustylugnut
join:2003-09-09
| Re: NorVergence Continued I have been working for Norvergence for almost a month now. Yes they do have their problems but most new companies do.
Is it a good deal for the customer? I haven’t decided since I'm just a lowly installer. I'm not real excited by their tactics and some of those tactics will get them in big trouble some day. The T-1 deal is good when packaged with cell phones. But why someone would sign a five year contract escapes me. One of the "solutions" is installing router boxes and claiming them to be "extra protection" on their existing DSL connection. When many already have a firewall/router on their network. Many people are getting a cheap router that won't connect (or work) with their existing equipment. And we are to NEVER mention exactly what it is or what it is suppose to do. So they end up with a cheap useless firewall box, which many customers don’t need, that would cost $30.00 new but they end up leasing it for five years. But I blame greedy sales people and a company that is willing to look the other way. And I also blame ignorant customers who don't know what they are getting in to. Every “SOHO” customer I’ve installed doesn’t really care about what I install they just keep asking about their unlimited usage cell phone.
Is it a good place to work?
The pay is decent, I'm way over qualified for the job but the work is easy and I needed the work. I’ll keep working hard but I got my resume handy  | |
| | | | | | | progolfer39
join:2003-09-09
North Attleboro, MA
| Re: NorVergence Continued Hey "rustylugnut" or should I call you by your real name?
"HYPOCRITE"!! Are you for real you pompous ass?
Let me get this straight....1)you are answering people's inquiries on this message board to questions about NorVergence 2)you are appalled at the "greedy salespeople" and managementof the company that YOU work for, but as you said: "I'm way over qualified but I needed the job" 3)you are admitting that the product is basically useless but you'll install it anyway and also keep your resume updated on the side.
Folks, please! I don't work for Norvergence but am supposed to start soon unless I tell them: "Thanks, but no thanks".
Again PLEASE do not use what this hypocritical A-hole is saying as a basis for anything. Personally I won't be working for this company but I have to question the motivation and tactics that the people who work for them are using.
Thank you | |
| | | | | | | | bhood
join:2003-09-01
Redlands, CA
| Re: NorVergence Continued Hey "progolfer" - great post. I was a bit amazed at the post myself.
As far as not working for Norvergence based on what you have been reading, that is your call. What I can say based on user expreince is that they are as good if not better than most of the other companies I deal with on a daily basis.
In fact, do a search on just about any telecom company and the amount of unhappy people will easily dwarf Norvergence.
What I think scares people a bit about this company (besides being new) is that they are using a new business model that we are seeing more and more these days as companies have to focus on cash flow. Getting outside financing or per account AR Financing.
This is different - not wrong, not illegal, just different. It does allow them to grow much quicker. My company explored this as well but could not find the companies willing to finaince our model (Managed Data Security). | |
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See 44 replies to this post | |
| | | klawler
join:2003-08-01
Danvers, MA | Does anyone think that the Matrix Rental Agreement can be negotiated; both the term and the cost. | |
| NoVaTechie
join:2003-08-10
Mclean, VA
| I signed up with Norvergence for my company about a month ago. Things have been moving VERY slowly. Finally, last week, the Matrix box was installed and the T1 hooked up. Outgoing lines connected to our old key phone system. Not like we wanted it, but might be ok. The cell phone thing seems like it should be good, but we still don't have the phones, over a month later. The few that did come, came locked, with no one at Norvergence available to explain how to handle that. The T1 line doesn't have the IP allocation we were promised. Calling Norvergence Tech Support is a nightmare so far ... waits of about 30 minutes. The people, when you finally get one, are just super ... knowledgeable and enthusiastic about helping. But there must only be a handfull, or maybe they don't have enough lines (???). I'm quite concerned about what happens when something goes wrong and I can't get a person to help. Their canned sales pitch (which was truly obnoxious as people have repeatedly said in these threads) particularly trumped how their service would exceed Verizon, Winstar, blah blah blah. Sucks so far by my experience. The cost looks promising (about 250/mo for matrix, 150 for the line). We'll see. My judgement is still on hold, but my concern meter is gyrating wildly. | |
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stev32k
Premium
join:2000-04-27
Mobile, AL | Re: NorVergence Continued Thanks for the report NoVaTechie. And welcome to DSL reports. You'll find there is a lot of good information and knowledge passed around here. Keep us posted on your experience with norvergence. | |
| | fairie21
join:2003-08-24
Elizabeth, NJ
| Hi NoVaTechie...
Things do go a little slow on the install, but that's mainly because you have to have the local service provider set a date to install the t-1, etc... And the reason there is such a wait on tech support and customer service is the lack of reps at this point... The customer base is outgrowing the number of c/s reps rapidly. They are hiring like mad, though, so it should get better soon. | |
| 
morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs: | scam! stay away from these guys! SCAM! | |
|
morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs: | i love reading posts from people that joined 3 days ago. makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
--
thanks bush jr! i love the horrible air quality you are screwing us with. | |
| |
printingman
@65.119.x.x
| Morbo, with a lot of time on his hands... morbo, have you ever said anything positive or useful?
I read some of your old posts, you haven't said anything useful or positive about anything including the company you working for now. Have you ever been a business owner? If you have you would look at all the parts of the solution. And realize that the risk is very minimal and savings are there, you already admitted that part. Have you ever even read the contract paperwork?
We went with norvergence because of the information we found here, it's a shame that you have turned this into a personal war of negative information that doesn't do anyone any good. I hope decisions makers can see past your personal attacks of the company and make smart business decision's | |
| nonymous
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ
| Why a middle man. Oh, so they can pay the sales people big money. Not too hard for even a little guy to get a T1 and the equipment to use it. Some knowledge is required but in most major cities a reliable telecom hardware vendor can set up the system and help deal with the telco to get what you need.
So all I need to do is rename an adtran a matrix box and rent it for way more than it's cost. Retirement here I come. | |
| nonymous
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ
| I have read this thread some. So do they actually provide anything? Besides being a middleman and putting the package together?
A T1 either through an alternate provider or where I work gets like I think a four hour repair commit. Maybe less. That is from time reported to us not the middleman. So if it took a reseller forever to call us then not our fault.
In general the reliability of a T1 is better as it is a tested and qualified circuit. Also better repair times as a business class special circuit. If reported to us promptly. I can see shopping for a major reseller of t1 who have there own co locate at central offices or such. Better prices etc. But a matrix box. Why not just say what it is a T1. The adtran etc. have been around forever. Improving constantly but the standard has been there.
[text was edited by author 2003-09-12 20:05:48] | |
| |
bigguy_501
| Norvergence MATRIX box is the Norvergence solution really compatable with all major carriers? | |
|
local_alphagraphics
@nj.h | Why did your BS meter go sky high? If the don't give you the service you don't have to pay. So there really isn't any risk to your company. Thats why we finally agreed to sign the contract... | |
| |
See 13 replies to this post | |
morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs: | i can't believe this thread is still ongoing.
STAY AWAY FROM THIS COMPANY!
--
thanks bush jr! i love the horrible air quality you are screwing us with. | |
| |
FromTheInside
@pacbell.n
| Re: NorVergence Continued The issue that attracts small companies to this product is the potential of saving real operating dollars. The fact that there is no new or fancy technology being used is actually a good thing. VoIP was all the rage a few years ago, and its warts are still being dealt with today (QoS, Priority etc). ATM has been a standard for decades in the carrier environment, we all know it works.
I'll hold my opinion about the business model, but to each their own. If a business with incremental growth sees value in fixing costs, this is certainly an option to look at. Is it worth it? Hell if I know. | |
| nonymous
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ | Norvergence salespeople actually tell customers that the box provides Fraud Protection on their cell phones by recording algorithms from cell phone calls made.
ROTFLMAO | |
| |
pashunfortelco
@harborcom.c
| Re: NorVergence Continued
First of All it is a Script that the "Screening Managers" or Sales People are reading from. It is a Psychological game they are trying to run because they using the "people want what they can't have concept" And trust me you do not want this if you are a small or medium sized business.
Here What they do They take all of of your Telecom Expensed including Cellular and Total them together, here is an example.
Long Distance $900
Cellular Phones $600
Internet: $500
Total Telecom Expenses $2000
Then they cut that cost by 30%
Giving you a New Cost of $1400
Then they will give you a formulua like this for your new services
$160 per month for T-1 of Internet
$40 per month for all your cell phones
$$1200 per month for the "Matrix Box"
New Services combined $1400 per month
That $1200 is then divided by .0218 that .0218 is what is called a leas factor that is what determines the deal value of the deal worth to Norvergence in this case its $55046 that is what NorV gets from the Bank.
Out of that money Norvergence brokers out the Telcom services to Providers, and they basically telling the Providers heres is revenue up-front instead of waiting for it over the next 5 years, Its sort of like when people sell their annuity payments for a large upfront payment, and with the economy the way it is especially in Telecom what provider would refuse that.
All of that I have mentioned is not reall where I have the problem with. I have a problem with: They promise to buy out contracts they don't the customer gets stuck, They are paying a for something that has no real value to it. It cost NorV less than $500 to produce that box. Plus a small business will have a hard time getting additional business credit because that $55045 that I mentione above is a loan that is against a business credit, SO THEY HAVE TO PAY IT and it can prevent them from getting addional business credit if needed.
So there is the Break down of NorV I hope this helps anyone. | |
| | | Johnny_M
join:2003-10-30
Helendale, CA
1 edit | Re: NorVergence Continued
I also hear that the company is putting it in writing that they will take care of all existing contracts. I did not think that they would do that. That's huge.
»Re: Norvergence Scam | |
| technerd2
join:2003-09-22
Parsippany, NJ
| Oh my god, I can not believe some of these disgusting posts against a company that is 1. Giving Small and Medium business owners unlimited calling anywhere in the USA for zero cents a minute, 2. reducing their monthly telecomm expenses up 60%. I recommended my company to utilize norvergence's solution, and guess what, I got a raise for it and a nice bonus. Why, because I decided to meet with norvergence with my bosses, and got the proposal. Savings were in 5 digits range per-month, which means over $9,999 for the simple's. I am a techie, like most of you poster's but jeez, use common sense for once instead of reaching for these situations of bandwith issues, matrix box failures, etc....you guys are like hackers, looking for every backdoor or hidden doors. Look, Yes I agree with some of the concerms with the contract, and the robot screening manager who seemed like he was on a verbatim script, but you know what, that "script" provided the vital info I needed to understand the solution, and I didn't feel he was selling me something, it was more of an information appointment. When you are preparing for a slideshow presentation to present to your superiors at work on how to say, save them 10% on office supplies annually, you would try to memorize what your going to say so everyone can understand what, how, when, and where. Regarding the contract, I was thinking, well what if norvergence goes belly up! Well I still have the box, and the way telecomm has been for decades, another company would pick up the operations, since their is room for profit. So that eased my concern on the contract. Also, 5 yrs for Zero cente-per-minute sounds pretty cool to me, no inflation, no variable cost, just the same amount in telecomm expenses for 5 yrs guaranteed, not bad. Oh yeah, now my cell phone has unlimited use 24/7, no minute caps or roaming charges...and I dont pay for it, my company does now. I agree totally that this solution is not for everyone. If you think your business isnt going to last another year, I wouldnt do it. But if you are running a business where you know your growth is inevitable, then I would jump on this. Also, some of these posts regarding the details on our operations seem to me like either disgruntles employees of the company, which we can all relate to, we all know at least one person at our company that is always sour and complaining. My other theory is "the competition". I think that some of the negative posts are from other companies that try to offer a solution as unique and valuable as norvergences. My challenge is this: Go get a quote from every other Telecomm company such as Allegiance, SBC, etc... and see what their solutions are! Will they give you a huge 30-60% savings with no out of pocket spending, will they give you unlimited outbound calling from land and cell phones for zero cents a minute, and do they all provide the high speed internet access. Whatever company your signed up with now, no matter how much they saved you, with norvergence, you will save up to 60% of that companies best offer.
I know I sound like I am promoting this company, but, wait, you know what, I am!!! They got me a raise, a bonus, and I get a cell phone that my company pays for and I have unlimited use on it. Technically, I dont give a stinking megabyte on how they do this, but I do know its legitimate, and it works, they are top of the line caterers in the Telecomm industry. As a personal note, if norvergence was offering the zero cents calling on cell and land phones and high speed internet access for the same monthly cost we were paying before, it would still be worth it. So the fact that they save a chunk off what a company is spending, that is truly amazing. On top of everything, they show a face to their company, not many in telecomm do that. They actually take the time out to come to your location to give you the info, not on the phone or by email, face to face, thats what I like.
This is my opinion, not everyone will agree, which is fine, its just my personal experience with norvergence.
My advice to you business owners out there is, meet with them, you are not obligated to make any decisions. They are just there to give you information on their solution, and to assess the specific needs of your company regarding telecommunications. And it is true that not everyone qualifies, and their is a real approval process, because one of my buddy's company couldn't receive the system up in denville, nj....I used to think that was just part of a attempt to peak interest even more, but its not, I was actually amazed about that part of it.
technerd
[text was edited by author 2003-09-22 16:20:48] | |
| | McMasters
join:2003-10-08
Chicago, IL
| Re: NorVergence Continued This has been a really interesting board. I have been in the industry for a number of years, with a big player.
I have been doing research on Norvergence, technerd, I am interested in more about what you have to say.
Could you please email me.
mcmasters1968@yahoo.com
Thanks | |
| nonymous
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ
| DO THE SAVINGS INCLUDE THE COST OF THE BOX?
Beyond that if you are the brightest at your company look for a new job soon as it will be bankrupt or under indictment.
Oh here is a real important job:
»www.uael.org/media/online/innerN···803.html
Norvergence Names New Director of Bank Relations"
Norvergence
NORVERGENCE is pleased to announce that Robert J. Fine has been named as Director of Bank Relations. In his new role Mr. Fine will be responsible for managing all aspects of the company's non-recourse, third-party relationships as well as developing new funding relationships.
Mr. Fine has over twenty-five years of experience in the equipment leasing industry and previously held the position of President of Gramercy Leasing Services, Inc., a wholly-owned subsidiary of Atlantic Bank of New York. Prior to Gramercy, Fine spent thirteen years managing BLT Leasing Corp, the leasing subsidiary of Bank Leumi Trust Company of N.Y. serving as its President from April 1990. Fine began his leasing career with the Bank of Tokyo Trust Company in 1976.
Mr. Fine has always been an active member of the equipment leasing trade associations and began a two-year term as President of the Eastern Association of Equipment Lessors (EAEL) in April of this year and has served as an officer and Board Member since 1995.
Headquartered in Newark, N.J. NORVERGENCE is leading the way to voice/data convergence solutions that allow small to medium-sized businesses to drastically reduce their telecommunications costs.
[text was edited by author 2003-09-22 20:42:42] | |
| technerd2
join:2003-09-22
Parsippany, NJ
| The box is incorporated into the savings, which means, you pay nothing extra, we are a large firm and our monthly telecom spending was well over $22,000, and we've cut that about in half. Norvergence told me box can vary, they aren't all the same exact box as read in some of these posts. I guess it all depends on your specific needs. If you are low volume, you do not need the largest bandwith. If you are high volume, you need larger capacity bandwith, every box is configured and tailored to the specified needs of the consumer. Then Cellular comes into play, and cellular is the best part to me, we have 62 cell phones for the company and we were paying about $8000 a month for all of them, and with norvergence, we are paying somewhere around $1300 for all 62 phones, and we have unlimited use on them peak and off peak time, 24/7 and there are no roaming charges. I know, it sounds wayyy to good to be true, but it is. The sales rep said that the cellular program they have has played a major role in many companies signing up for this. I can see why being that the owner of my company uses up over 4000 minutes a month peak time on cellular, so he got a huge kick out of norvergence telling him that cell phone now has no minute boundaries anymore! And it really comes down to the partnerships they have with excellent companies like Nortel, and cellular companies.
For anyone that is skeptical, you should be. In this day and age if you are not initially skeptical when it comes to Telecommunications, theres something wrong with you.
We are supposed to be skeptical, thats a good thing, but it shouldn't mean you can't sit with one of these guys for 20 minutes at your office. Get you questions answered, get the facts. If you dont like what you hear, end it right there. I meet with vendors and sales people from everything from Computer solutions to office supply companies, and I see what each one offers, and I go with the best. Unfortunately, when it comes to telecomm, no one can compete with norvergences patented matrix solution. Because even for example you just signed with some other company like allegiance(VOIP), and saving 12% monthly, norvergence will still get you a huge reduction in your telecomm expenses. And the sad thing with some of these other Voice to Data companies is that they are the one with hidden terms. I know a guy who got a proposal from a Voice/Data company and they told him he can make unlimited calls anywhere in the USA. Once he had an attorney look over the contract, it showed that it was unlimited up to 10,000 minutes a month. Now that is a deception and a semi-scam. The system we are on is simple, 24/7 unlimited calling anywhere in the USA for ZERO cents a minute. We can use 10,000,000,000 minutes a month and we will not spend 1 penny for per-minute charges.
They could work on the customer service though, I have seen worse, but I am trying to give you the real downsides, if any about norvergence. The cell phones took a couple weeks longer than expected to arrive, but that was because they have hundreds of applicants every week and they are getting backed up bit with the cell distribution, cause they said they program them on the spot, so when they get delivered, they are ready to go!
Oh yeah, one more thing, they give you all new cell phones when you sign up at no expense to you. 62 sprint cells we got, these cells are retailing at $235 each. So that would be about $15,000 for just the cell phones alone. But we get them free with the service.
Yeah this really sucks, lol!!!! | |
| sexygirl4u
join:2003-09-23
Passaic, NJ
| As a business owner and sister of a current employer, i must say....DONT KNOCK IT UNTIL YOU TRY IT...
Norvergence is a company that has grown from 1 floor consisting of 50 salespersons 2 years ago open in 5 markets up til today with empire with over 3000 salepersons working 35 different markets condering the depressing unemployment market. and THEY ARE CLOSINg about 1000 accounts a day. There tactics are no different than those used by AOL when they first came on the market, everyone thought it was a scam and too good to be true. So they must be doing something right. If you do not believe me, their offices are located downtown newark, nj at 550 broad street (you will see a diversified group of professonials outside the building). Also, the reason why no one has heard of the company is because of their "gorilla" marketing tactics considering they are monopolizing this market so there is no competition.
Their seem to be a lot of skeptics with no real information. Yew, I signed a 5 year contract, but I received 30-60% savings in certified writing with the option for them to beat 2 competitive companies within that time. I was first skeptical when I was approach by Norvergence 2 years ago(before the employment of my relative)but since I spent over $1000 a month on my home phone, business phone, and cellphone bills not to mention the cellphones of my 2 children I decided to give it a try. At first, i was quite suprise when the "screening managers" who actually did not try to sell me anything but to show up for only 10 minutes to review the bills and show the savings with no real pressure to commit(someone else will try to come back and sell). After reviewing the contract with my attorney, I decided to give it a shot but I still had my guard up. 2 years later, I'am currently spending under $400 dollars a month for all 6 lines, what a big difference(they also just replaced all 4 cell phones for free). I do not care how they do it or about the hidden fees but they do it good and all that really matter to me is the money that I'am saving. About $14,000 in savings in 2 years, you do the math !!!!
Lastly, I must say that Iam glay to be on the bandwagon and I will be more than haPPY to refere anyone to my sis for a appointment because all those who doubt will be left in the dust.
Trust me, it doest not hurt to listen to their brief screening meeting, with the option to end it at anytime, and what's the worst that could happen, you loose 10 minutes of your day.
I might sound like a salesperson but any company that saves me over $14,000 in 2 years, I'll happily spread the word.
NorVergence, NorVergence,NorVergence. The company will be a household name in 3 years. | |
| | sexygirl4u
join:2003-09-23
Passaic, NJ | Re: NorVergence -First and Second Hand Knowledge
Mrs. Fleming
Misertek Industries
Chachalene@yahoo.com
Good Luck!!! | |
| |
printingman
@65.119.x.x | Norvergences Saves You Money A NorVergence solution includes all aspects of telecom and communication needs, if you are in business for any length of time you know that it NEVER gets cheaper. That's why we signed up for the 5 year contract.
5 YEARS OF REAL COST SAVINGS! | |
| sexygirl4u
join:2003-09-23
Passaic, NJ | Good Hunting!!! | |
| | sexygirl4u
join:2003-09-23
Passaic, NJ | Re: NorVergence first and second hand knowledge | |
| nonymous
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ
| Norvergence is a company that has grown from 1 floor consisting of 50 salespersons 2 years ago open in 5 markets up til today with empire with over 3000 salepersons working 35 different markets condering the depressing unemployment market. and THEY ARE CLOSINg about 1000 accounts a day. There tactics are no different than those used by AOL when they first came on the market, everyone thought it was a scam and too good to be true.
So sales people do they do anymore???????????????????
AOL has a backbone. | |
| nonymous
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ
| All I want to know is if they have any infrastructure? Or are they strictly a reseller. In which case you should be able to do as good as deal thru the main seller of the product.
Do they produce anything? Or are they a telemarketer???
[text was edited by author 2003-09-23 21:34:19] | |
| technerd2
join:2003-09-22
Parsippany, NJ
| I read in a telecomm magazine that Norvergence is the fastest growing company in the industry right now. They are supassing any type of competition. if the patent on the Matrix Box is still valid for another 8.5 years, that means that if you sign up for the 5 year contract, you will always have it fixed if it does ever fail, even if norvergence gets sold or goes under, someone else will take over the company, its a cash cow for anyone who has the money to invest into it. People always look for the smallest things to complain about, its disgusting....Look, if you dont like it, thats fine, its your opinion. I say " live and let live, anyone that cant understand that should be killed"!!! | |
| |
See 103 replies to this post | |
jester121
Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL
 ·surpasshosting
 ·ViaTalk
| --- wonders how many more anonymous pumpers we'll see from the same local loop in N Hanover, NJ.
jerseydog
anonymous
nhanvr01.nj.comcast.
localalphagraphics
anonymous
nhanvr01.nj.comcast.
Wait, don't we know a certain company that's based in NJ? | |
| | salesguy7
join:2003-09-19
| Re: NorVergence Continued Look I did not join to pick fights with anyone. I'm no where near Jersey or their loop. And you have offered nothing of substance except sarcasm. I think this will be my last post. I thought I could get some well thought-out, valuable, honest information. What I got instead were posts from folks with agendas or some unfounded willingness to pile on. I will still consider using the tools here & may research some other topics. Good luck all & be sure to do your own homework. | |
| | | (topic locked) | |
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