bhood
join:2003-09-01
Redlands, CA
| reply to progolfer39
Re: NorVergence Continued
Hey "progolfer" - great post. I was a bit amazed at the post myself.
As far as not working for Norvergence based on what you have been reading, that is your call. What I can say based on user expreince is that they are as good if not better than most of the other companies I deal with on a daily basis.
In fact, do a search on just about any telecom company and the amount of unhappy people will easily dwarf Norvergence.
What I think scares people a bit about this company (besides being new) is that they are using a new business model that we are seeing more and more these days as companies have to focus on cash flow. Getting outside financing or per account AR Financing.
This is different - not wrong, not illegal, just different. It does allow them to grow much quicker. My company explored this as well but could not find the companies willing to finaince our model (Managed Data Security). |
|
nonymous
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ
| reply to shuntva
I have read this thread some. So do they actually provide anything? Besides being a middleman and putting the package together?
A T1 either through an alternate provider or where I work gets like I think a four hour repair commit. Maybe less. That is from time reported to us not the middleman. So if it took a reseller forever to call us then not our fault.
In general the reliability of a T1 is better as it is a tested and qualified circuit. Also better repair times as a business class special circuit. If reported to us promptly. I can see shopping for a major reseller of t1 who have there own co locate at central offices or such. Better prices etc. But a matrix box. Why not just say what it is a T1. The adtran etc. have been around forever. Improving constantly but the standard has been there.
[text was edited by author 2003-09-12 20:05:48] |
|
bigguy_501
| Norvergence MATRIX box
is the Norvergence solution really compatable with all major carriers? |
|
local_alphagraphics
@nj.h | reply to shuntva
Norvergence, a real good deal....
Why did your BS meter go sky high? If the don't give you the service you don't have to pay. So there really isn't any risk to your company. Thats why we finally agreed to sign the contract... |
|
cas_assocs
@nj.h | reply to stev32k
MATRIX box price over 5 years
isn't it true that over the lenght of the contract, you can bring 2 quotes from competitors if there is a solution that is cheapier.. So you can break the 5 yrs contract..
But if prices go up your still locked in at the good price.. |
|
joein610
join:2003-07-03
Media, PA
| reply to local_alphagraphics
Re: Norvergence, a real good deal....
local_alphagraphics... This is Statement NOT TRUE
"If the don't give you the service you don't have to pay"
YOU DEFINATELY HAVE TO PAY ... Even if Norvergence Goes OUT OF BUSINESS... Take a look at you contract .. the Contract is between you and the leasing company not between you and Norvergence... Plus the Contract explicitly state that you have to pay whether the box is Broke, stolen etc. Norvergence is NOT responsible for the Box AT ALL.. .. I dont Know what happens if the Box BREAKS???
and whether you have to buy a new one if your burns oout or breaks...
-------------------------------
Ps. My client had to get new cell phones on the Plan.. Norvergence gave them Sprint PCS... I dont know if this is the case all the time..
Joe |
|
orchid1
join:2003-09-10
Los Angeles, CA
|  reply to reg64
Norvergence Scam
Norvergence is truly a scam and this is how it works. The "Screening Manager" (better known as a "Salesperson") collects telecom bills from the company they are meeting with. The company's current costs are added up; Norvergence then reduces that cost by 30%. Once that number is determined, Norvergence then backs out the cost of the T1 and the Unlimited Cellular to determine that company's "Matrix" box price. All current costs, less 30%, nominal T1, and cellular costs are applied to the price of the box. That is why they can’t put a price on the box. They have to figure out how much a company is currently spending and squeeze every last dime into the cost of the box. The customer is then bound to the 5 year agreement with the bank, regardless of service level provided by Norvergence.
The sad thing is that two companies can have the same telecom needs (i.e. number of lines, calling patterns, data requirements and cellular) yet if company A is currently getting a better deal from their providers then company B is, company B will pay more for the “matrix” box. It is all entirely based on what the company is currently spending.
This magical box is nothing more than an Adtran IAD (Integrated Access Device retailing for about $500). The really sad thing is that if a customer is just getting DSL or Cable High speed internet, the box does absolutely nothing!!!
As far as shopping for competitive pricing goes…sure, a company can shop prices on a T1, unlimited cellular & unlimited 800 services and if they receive 2 quotes that are less than the pricing with Norvergence, Norvergence will reduce the overall monthly cost. The problem is, I can’t believe a company will find a lower price for a T1 or unlimited cellular. As explained above, all of the money goes into the box and that is funded through a bank. The agreement for the box is between the customer and the bank. Norvergence receives all of that money up front. The customer is responsible to pay the five year lease on the equipment.
Can Norvergence save a company money? Sure they can. They are really a glorified reseller not a matchmaker as I’ve read on this board. Why don’t they just say what they are and do what they do? Because then they would have to put a price on the “magical box”. |
|
orchid1
join:2003-09-10
Los Angeles, CA
| reply to klawler
Re: NorVergence Continued
Do the math. $1032.17 x .70 = $722.519.
$722.52 Cost with Norvergence
-$ 59.97 Cellular Unlimited
-$159.25 Internet (T1)
-$ 24.95 800 #
=$478.35 Matrix Rental
Just think if the total costs were $4,500. $4,500.00 x .70 = $3150.00
For this fictional example this company may be paying a high per minute rate with their current carrier....or they may have a lot of domestic long distance or high 800# usage. Let's say this company's Cellular Usage was $1,000.00 of that. So let's go high and say Norvergence price is $160.00 for cellular....do the math.
$3150.00
-$160.00 Unlimited Cellular
-$159.25 Internet (T1)
-$ 24.95 800 #
=$2805.80 Matrix Rental!!!
Multiply that by 60 months...$168,348.00!!! That is what Norvergence will receive from the leasing company!!!
Norvergence then pays wholesale rates to the local phone company and Qwest and whatever Cellular provider they are using with this company. They are a reseller using creative sales techniques and and nothing more. |
|
bhood
join:2003-09-01
Redlands, CA
|  reply to orchid1
Re: Norvergence Scam
You make it sound like all you have to do is purchase an Adtran or similar device for $500. What about a way to terminate calls?
Is Norvergence bundling everything into the price of the hardware? Sure. That is different that what others do and not wrong.
At this present time, two companies can have the same telecom bill with Sprint and pay different amounts.
The way I see it, the biggest problem that Norvergence has is a lack of education on their Salespeople on how the system works.
You sound like a sales person that they hired but based on a limited knowledge what it takes to make a system like this work started screaming scam. Or, a techie with a bad case of pay check envy. |
|
orchid1
join:2003-09-10
Los Angeles, CA
| I am neither one, and no you can not just purchase an adtran and the same service. Of course, two different customers of the same carrier can have two different deals. None of what you are saying is not true. The point is, Norvergence will not tell any of their customers the simple truth....the truth is they are basically reselling services and locking them in. End of story.
Yes, you are correct, to say it simply, they are bundling everything into the cost of the hardware. Here's the problem, now the customer is stuck. I know someone with their service right now and they want out. They have had a terrible experience Norvergence...from installation to cell phone frustrations to customer service. Sure they can go get another integrated T1 and new cell phones with a different carrier but they still have to pay for that piece of equipment.....THE SAME PIECE OF EQUIPMENT THAT THE PRICE OF SERVICE IS BUNDLED INTO....ARE YOU FOLLOWING NOW??? |
|
worldwidejt
join:2003-09-17
Providence, RI
| reply to roamer1
Sounds to good to be true always is
I am sorry but I have been in this business for 5 years now working hard and honestly. This company NorVergence is all over the northeast all of a sudden and my T1 customers are actually calling me asking why they shouldn't take advantage of this. Are these people kidding me. VoIP, alright I buy the savings on the usage with this Matrix box on the 5 year mortgage but come on unlimited cell phones. One of my customers in Providence, RI actually just signed up with these guys and they promised him 15 cell phones at no charge and he got to pick between Sprint and AT&T. Are these PEZ dispensers or what? I felt like telling him to stay with me and upgrade to a DS3 and I'll pay for his BMW too!!!!!!!!!!!! |
|
orchid1
join:2003-09-10
Los Angeles, CA
| Worldwidejt,
Let your customers know this. They will receive a discount on whatever they are spending now. After the discount, the remaining $'s will be applied to the monthly rental of the "magical" box. The box is a 5 year lease with a bank. They will be responsible for that dollar amount for 5 years. They can change carriers all they want, get a new T1 from another carrier if they want, and, if they are not happy with the cell phone service Norvergence has provided them, they can go to another carrier...whatever they would like....but the bottom line is, they are responsible for the payment of the box...which AGAIN (for those of you who don't grasp it yet) is where all of the bundled services pricing ends up. |
|
orchid1
join:2003-09-10
Los Angeles, CA | reply to bhood
Re: Norvergence Scam
Oh, and bhood, I am very knowledgeable about how this "system" works. The customer is getting an integrated T1....there's nothing fancy or complicated about it. Sounds like your the one lacking knowledge. |
|
orchid1
join:2003-09-10
Los Angeles, CA
| reply to bhood
Reading one of your old posts confirms it. You have no clue what you're talking about...A FULLY MANAGED ATM MEDIA GATEWAY??? How about an Integrated T1....nothing new, nothing complicated. All Integrated T1's use an IAD of some sort....just like the Adtran IAD or the "magical" Matrix Box. I don't know what your business is but you should really stick with what you know. |
|
OrlandoJoe
join:2003-09-17
Orlando, FL
| OK, OK. You guys can chill. Orchid what you say makes sense. I just think how about we leave it up to the fact that business people own their own business and they can make dumb decisions if they want.
I get the technology and how it works but why is no one else offering the bundled service only yet? Then you could just get an Adtran and be off.
And why should someone not work for Norvergence. Sounds like good money. |
|
localalphagraphics
| reply to joein610
Re: Norvergence, if it doesn't work don't pay....
there is no court in the country that can make you pay for something that doesn't work
it is also in the contract that if you get 2 competitor bids that are less at any point in the contract and you can get out also... |
|
morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs: | reply to shuntva
Re: NorVergence Continued
i can't believe this thread is still ongoing.
STAY AWAY FROM THIS COMPANY!
--
thanks bush jr! i love the horrible air quality you are screwing us with. |
|
salesguy7
join:2003-09-19
| reply to orchid1
Re: I don't really see big promblem...
Orchid, everything you said made sense & although the tone of your context was neutral to slightly negative, let me add this. I too have been doing research on Norvergence & I have experience selling all kinds of telecom. I don't see a problem saving a company 30% even if the $$ is tied to an IAD. Bottom line is the company is saving money. Who really cares if the Adtran only costs 500 retail, YOU'RE BUYING a SOLUTION, not a "magical box". This is just one solution of many. It sounds like your true beef is the 5yr committment to the box. Guess what, companies sign multi-years deals for all kinds of products & services & some a lot longer than 5 yrs. And, if a new company comes along 2yrs later and now has a solution for another 30% less, that DOES NOT make the original deal a scam. As long as you get the service you contract for & are billed correctly, then where is the scam? How many of us bought our PC's to only see the same model get cheaper, faster & come with more software & hardware 6 months later? Does that make our original purchase a scam? Bottom line is this, if the check I send at end of the month is 30% less for the same level of service, then where did I go wrong,who cares about the box as long as it works. Sure I may be uspet to find a better solution 18 months later, but according to your own post they will reduce your costs with 2 new quotes. And finally, about 2 companies being billed diff, it is not too uncommon to find a guy paying ATT .25 per min w/ full min rounding & his next door neighbor paying .07 per min to ATT for 1/3 the usage, gimme a break on that one. some owner simply need to join the 21st century. |
|
orchid1
join:2003-09-10
Los Angeles, CA
| Salesguy,
This is the problem I have. Why isn't the company honest with the customers about what they are doing? Have you met with a Salesperson from Norvergence? They have a canned "speech", they really can't answer any questions, and they can't tell the truth. The truth is Norvergence is a reseller of Qwest and they have formed relationships with some of the cellular providers. The box has nothing to do with it. The box is the way they get a full five years of telecom revenue upfront. If the customer is DSL or Cable the box does NOTHING at all. The box is truly only necessary if the customer is getting an integrated T1 and it certainly isn't how the customer is provided with unlimited calling. Norvergence salespeople actually tell customers that the box provides Fraud Protection on their cell phones by recording algorithms from cell phone calls made. This is impossible. |
|
nonymous
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ | reply to shuntva
Re: NorVergence Continued
Norvergence salespeople actually tell customers that the box provides Fraud Protection on their cell phones by recording algorithms from cell phone calls made.
ROTFLMAO |
|
