 Hayward K A R - 1 2 0 CPremium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
kudos:1
| Some thoughts on the Fuji 6x ZOOM line Well as some of you may know... I got chance to pick up a refurb 2800 cheap... as a "who cares" back up to my expensive S602... I don't want to risk.
It's been an interesting experimentation... as to anyone wondering is the S602 really worth the extra $$$?
I now FULLY understand what ever many have said about the 28/3800 in low light situations... pretty poor if you don't carry ba flashlight along.
It (2800) is also being basically P&S and little else pretty poor at marginal circumstances.
One of the great features of the S602 is you can separate the AF from the AE. You can't with the 28/3800. This makes both poor at "close up" sunset shots (like clouds) where the AF totally fails for no defined lines.
With the 602 it somewhat has the same problem, BUT since AF and AE are separable you can focus elsewhere near infinity (like the horizon) and then reframe... but with the 28/300 since AF & AE are tied together you are also stuck with the horizon exposure setting... doesn't work when you go back to the sky.
The EVF on the 602 can be hard to make out exactly what you are shooting sometimes in VERY low light, but the AF rarely fails... maybe second attempt to lock it... but the 28/3800 between being stuck at 100 ISO (vs 400 on the 602)plus total dependence on AF and much lower sensitivity, this gets VERY problematic. Even if the second try with AF on the 602 (rare) you can still manually tweak it if has to be. The 602 also has IR focus assist, rather than pure contrast based TTL focus the 28/3800 have.
It really surprised me that the 3800 though a 3.2mp instead of 2.1... is still 100 ISO speed... would think they would have at least upped that to 200 along with the more manual features over the 2800. This alone is those two cameras biggest hinderance.
Now don't get me wrong... for the cheap back up camera I bought the 2800 for it really doesn't disappoint and the basic P&S "average shot but still 6x" camera I really bought it for... but that it falls so far short anywhere outside that realm, was a disappointment.
Again the 3800 probably not as severe, but still ISO 100, though it can take lenses and filters, plus more manual control (though still not full) is a considerable limitation.
So the question comes down is the S602 worth the extra bucks.... if you are considering a 3800 and have the money to spend... ABSOLUTELY!!! You can do and it yields just so much more if you are doing anything beyond snap shots. (Again the 28 and less so the 3800, are sort of limited to)
2800 to 602 is a BIG leap... but not so much 3800 to 602... again you can squeeze the $$$ out of your budget, you won't be disappointed... the 3800 you are probably going to be pulling hairs out in relatively short order, if you know what cameras are about.
Oh, and one last thought...
the 28/300 while still what many would consider bulky... are just a little too tiny. still have the nice firm right hand grip and controls at fingers reach (ALL the Fuji's I have seen are EXTREMELY well ergonomically designed)... but not nearly as balanced as the 602... which is the first digital camera I have ever had my hands on that just "felt" like it was my old 35mm SLR... doing 1/4 sec hand helds is quite easy... not a test of coordination.
OOPS I lied two thoughts... not sure about the 3800, but since the 2800 is pretty much full auto... you have no exposure info in the EVF, whereas the 602 in ALL modes gives you that exposure information (Even FULL AUTO)... and again maybe only important if you know what cameras are about... maybe you should go into another mode/setting to better capture it.
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»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
[text was edited by author 2003-07-26 01:50:52] |
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 MLOK5My Reality Check BouncedPremium,MVM
join:2000-08-17
Plano, TX |
Great review, Hayward. Maybe you should post it here, where people will always be able to reference it:
»Digital Imaging User Reviews
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"Are you seeing planes? Is your name Tattoo? Because I swear to God, you're living on Fantasy Island." |
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Hayward K A R - 1 2 0 CPremium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
kudos:1 | Yeah but where the heck would I put it since it covers 2.1, 3.2 and if you want to count the 602's 3rd gen. Super CCD 6mp capability... three different categories 
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»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West) |
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MLOK5My Reality Check BouncedPremium,MVM
join:2000-08-17
Plano, TX |
Maybe put it under "2.8 Others". There's nothing else there anyway, so it would stand out. I'll bet you'd be able to park it there.
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"Are you seeing planes? Is your name Tattoo? Because I swear to God, you're living on Fantasy Island." |
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Hayward K A R - 1 2 0 CPremium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
kudos:1
| 
FUJIFILM FinePix S602 ZOOM
9.7mm 1/4th F2.8 ISO200
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FUJIFILM FinePix S602 ZOOM
37mm 1/125th F2.8 ISO200
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FUJIFILM FinePix S602 ZOOM
46mm 1/4th F2.8 ISO200
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The last is just... again 1/4 sec available light... her motion and mine maybe... but guarantee you neither the 28 or 3800 could even begin to pull this off.
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»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
[text was edited by author 2003-07-26 02:52:42] |
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Hayward K A R - 1 2 0 CPremium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
kudos:1 | OOPS, I take that partly back... the first two weren't from the same spot, but I was still at least 20 ft away, for the close shot.
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»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West) |
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 DigibitsPremium
join:2000-09-02
The Hilltop
kudos:1 | reply to Hayward
Thanks for the excellent review and photographs, hayward.
Am considering the purchase of another digital camera, and the S602 is one of the few still on my list of possibilities.
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Learn from the mistakes of others. You can't live long enough to make them all yourself. |
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Hayward K A R - 1 2 0 CPremium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
kudos:1 | If it has to be now... 602 is a a good choice in my opinion, BUT Fuji has announce a 4th generation of their Super CCD.
So my my guess is by fall or Christmas at the latest there will be a new version of the 602 that will be 6mp (true pixels) and the interpolated up to 12mp. (as the current 602 can do 6mp from 3.2mp)
The unique thing this time around is there are actually 2 distinct type of pixels in the sensor (much like the rods and cones in the human eye) one type is for light level detail, and the other for color. (3.1mp of each)
See: »www.dp-now.com/news/0103/news250···250.html
They actually already have a couple of cameras out...
see: »www.fujifilm.com/JSP/fuji/epartn···rCCD.jsp
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»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West) |
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DigibitsPremium
join:2000-09-02
The Hilltop
kudos:1
| said by Hayward:
If it has to be now... 602 is a a good choice in my opinion, BUT Fuji has announce a 4th generation of their Super CCD.
Thanks for the links and information. I knew that the new generation would be coming out. I just didn't realize that some models had already been announced.
If the price isn't too prohibitive, the new generation looks like it would be worth the wait, and waiting until the end of the year ... not a problem.
As a side note, congratulations hayward on your 3 year anniversary with BBR.
[text was edited by author 2003-07-27 08:56:33] |
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Hayward K A R - 1 2 0 CPremium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
kudos:1
| Well one thing I have noticed is that the 2800, 3800, and S602 recently have all been turning up on liquidation type sites as factory refubs.
This is often a sign of models being discontinued, and the manufacturer getting rid of it excess inventory and warranty exchange stock.
So my guess would be there could be new versions, by fall.
BTW the new F700 and F410 are both now available.
The 700 at around $600 (SR model) and the 410 at about $400 (HR Model)
The HR is just improvement on the current CCD, the SR is the impressive one... that does what I was hoping someone would focus development on... greatly improved dynamic range (contrast ratio in film terms) claimed to approach that of film... we will see when they start being reviewed.
I just hope the put the SR CCD in the S602 and change little else.
I will be real upset it they went to Xd cards (especially since limited to 256MB so far) and proprietary batteries.
The dual media support is nice, but I could see them dropping the SM slot... though it would be OK if they switched that to Xd, so long as they keep the CF/microdrive slot.
Of course it would be fine if they went to a 8 or 10x lens. With the F700 otherwise a normal 3x, optical VF camera and $600... a new 602 equivalent likely will be about $800 at least to start. (Which is where the current S602 started out too)
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»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
[text was edited by author 2003-07-27 14:34:01] |
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 natedjElectedPremium
join:2001-06-06
Columbia, SC
 ·Earthlink Cable ..
| reply to Hayward
I have a question for you hayward....
I too have a Fugi s602 and I'm enjoying it more each day.
But when I take it to church with me, my shots comes out blurred about 30-40% of the time. I've tried to monkey around with the settings, but I haven't hit that sweet spot yet.
This is my environment. 100% florescent lighting, the rooms are not very brightly lit (so I use a slower shutter speed)
and My flash only seem to solve the problem 50% of the time. Is there something that I can try to resolve this. |
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Hayward K A R - 1 2 0 CPremium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
kudos:1 | For available light I would set it for shutter priority and the slowest speed your hands can handle. I've had fair luck down to about 1/8 sec. But 1/25th is about as low as most can handle. Also be sure to set the ISO speed to 400. (You are limited to just 200 in Auto)
If you use the flash, I usually leave mine set to forced, since it shuts off when popped down anyway, and I know will always flash when I pop it up.
You might also try using Slow Sync flash too if things are still enough. This will add the available light exposure and the flash together. Flash's first then shutter stays open for available light exposure, so don't move as soon as you see the flash.
How big are the rooms any way, and what color? What type of florescent light Direct or bounced? (like from a valence fixture off a white ceiling)
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»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West) |
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 Stiofan
join:2000-08-21
Post Falls, ID | reply to Hayward
About what you'd expect with the advance of technology in digital cameras. My 2800 is nearly 2 years old and certainly showing it's age. When I bought it the 3800 and 602 weren't even rumored on the street. My next upgrade though has to be a professional level digital. The 2800 really does every thing I can ask for a P&S camera. Next step must have interchangible lens for me. |
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Hayward K A R - 1 2 0 CPremium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
kudos:1
| And exactly why I bought one (2800) when they hit the refurb sub $199 level... NO WAY I expected it to be a 602... but for those "average P&S" daylight situations where I might not want to endanger the expensive 602 (like thunderstorm/sea spray on a boat, or fall overboard... it not me  )... but much the same functionality and zoom.
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»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
[text was edited by author 2003-07-27 23:34:25] |
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 fredusPremium
join:2001-08-29
Nice, France | reply to Hayward
said by Hayward:
I've had fair luck down to about 1/8 sec. But 1/25th is about as low as most can handle.
Well it really depends on what focal length you're using. The theoritical rule says that one can get sharp pic at 1/focal length second.
Fred
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Impress your friends ! Speak latin :"Te audire no possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure. - I can't hear you. I have a banana in my ear." |
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Hayward K A R - 1 2 0 CPremium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
kudos:1
| This is VERY true.... no way 1/8 sec at full 6x zoom!!!
But then again less than wide. And likely some motion blur (though usually more subject than me) but reasonable sharp.
But I think that 1/focal length is for coffee addicts because at full zoom (228mm film equiv) I can shoot well down to 1/60 sometimes even less. Certainly FAR lower than 1/225 --
»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West)
[text was edited by author 2003-07-28 03:25:39] |
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natedjElectedPremium
join:2001-06-06
Columbia, SC Reviews:
·Earthlink Cable ..
| reply to Hayward
said by Hayward:
For available light I would set it for shutter priority and the slowest speed your hands can handle. I've had fair luck down to about 1/8 sec. But 1/25th is about as low as most can handle. Also be sure to set the ISO speed to 400. (You are limited to just 200 in Auto)
If you use the flash, I usually leave mine set to forced, since it shuts off when popped down anyway, and I know will always flash when I pop it up.
You might also try using Slow Sync flash too if things are still enough. This will add the available light exposure and the flash together. Flash's first then shutter stays open for available light exposure, so don't move as soon as you see the flash.
How big are the rooms any way, and what color? What type of florescent light Direct or bounced? (like from a valence fixture off a white ceiling)
Thanks for the pointers...I'll definitely implement your recommendations. The rooms are large (20x30 and 28x50). the ceilings are all white and the walls are an eggshell color. (some of my shots have a yellowish haze to it). The light fixtures are all mounted to the ceiling. |
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Hayward K A R - 1 2 0 CPremium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
kudos:1 | You might try the manual WB settings to see if you can minimize the color cast... florecent can be tricky though. As I recall there are settings for warm, cool, and daylight types though.
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»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West) |
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fredusPremium
join:2001-08-29
Nice, France
| reply to Hayward
said by Hayward:
But I think that 1/focal length is for coffee addicts because at full zoom (228mm film equiv) I can shoot well down to 1/60 sometimes even less. Certainly FAR lower than 1/225
Oh I'm not saying you can't go lower. Sometime it's better to take the shot, even though it's not sharp than not taking the shot at all.
I like sharpness. I'm not going to get a sharp picture at 1/60 when using a 225mm focal length. Even with a stabilized lens. Unless I use a tripod of course.
Fred
Fred
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Impress your friends ! Speak latin :
"Te audire no possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure. - I can't hear you. I have a banana in my ear."
[text was edited by author 2003-07-28 13:14:05] |
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Hayward K A R - 1 2 0 CPremium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
kudos:1 | 
FUJIFILM FinePix S602 ZOOM
19mm 1/20th F2.8 ISO400
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Some of the fuzz is DOF as it is wide open 2.8 and near full zoom, also the ship is moving slightly (coming up it to the wind to drop sails)
Check the EXIF info. Unfortunately zoom isn't registered, you'll have to take my word on that.
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»haywardm.com (Hayward's Key West) |
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