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wtansill
Ncc1701
join:2000-10-10
Falls Church, VA
| reply to pianotech
Re: Very nice of them!
said by pianotech  :
said by The Truth7 :
sry buddy, i'm a musician too and guess what. Musicians should be paid based on the performance they promote to the consumer.
Single's should cost no more then a buck a piece and they should be readily available for the songs that are popular.
I agree with you 200%. A buck is actually the highest they should be. .75-99 cents would be about right.
That said, the artist deserves that 79-99 cents if the song is downloaded and kept.
I think the CD model has been dead for several years now except for classical works where you have entire symphonies.
So in your estimation that $0.75-$0.99 should go to the artist in addition to the royalties already charged on blank CD media that are there specifically to compensate the artists for supposed losses attributed to downloading? I'm sorry, my argument would be that I've already paid for that privilege via the up-front royalty fee. Additionally, there are many, many folks who never D/L music, and who only use the CDs to back up data, create family photo albums etc. These folks never receive a dime's of value from their royalty contribution. Why is it that you only see "theft" as a one-way venture?
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That which does not kill me merely prolongs the agony. | |
pianotech
Pianotech
Premium
join:2002-12-30
New Castle, PA
| said by wtansill :
said by pianotech :
said by The Truth7 :
sry buddy, i'm a musician too and guess what. Musicians should be paid based on the performance they promote to the consumer.
Single's should cost no more then a buck a piece and they should be readily available for the songs that are popular.
I agree with you 200%. A buck is actually the highest they should be. .75-99 cents would be about right.
That said, the artist deserves that 79-99 cents if the song is downloaded and kept.
I think the CD model has been dead for several years now except for classical works where you have entire symphonies.
So in your estimation that $0.75-$0.99 should go to the artist in addition to the royalties already charged on blank CD media that are there specifically to compensate the artists for supposed losses attributed to downloading? I'm sorry, my argument would be that I've already paid for that privilege via the up-front royalty fee. Additionally, there are many, many folks who never D/L music, and who only use the CDs to back up data, create family photo albums etc. These folks never receive a dime's of value from their royalty contribution. Why is it that you only see "theft" as a one-way venture?
I don't see theft as a one-way venture, I see it as a two-way venture. Labels rip off consumers, and they rip off the artists. Furthermore, the "royalty" on blank cd's is wrong also, because as you said, people who use cdr's for things that have nothing to do with music are paying it. Plus, that is only distributed to major acts who have contracts with major labels (read, the RIAA), not independents like me.
So in consideration of everything I just said, why should I not receive 79-99 cents for a song? I'm independent, have no label, and could care less about the RIAA.
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Composer, performer, pianist
[text was edited by author 2003-07-27 12:28:32] | |
wtansill
Ncc1701
join:2000-10-10
Falls Church, VA
| said by pianotech :
I don't see theft as a one-way venture, I see it as a two-way venture. Labels rip off consumers, and they rip off the artists. Furthermore, the "royalty" on blank cd's is wrong also, because as you said, people who use cdr's for things that have nothing to do with music are paying it. Plus, that is only distributed to major acts who have contracts with major labels (read, the RIAA), not independents like me.
So in consideration of everything I just said, why should I not receive 79-99 cents for a song? I'm independent, have no label, and could care less about the RIAA.
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Composer, performer, pianist
[text was edited by author 2003-07-27 12:28:32]
Ok, I'll bite. What genre of music do you produce? Where and how is it available? I frequent events such as Celtic festivals, Native American pow-wows, Renaissance Fairs, Irish Pubs (Seamus Kennedy is a favorite) and such, and purchase CDs at those events in direct support of the artists who produced the works. I've also purchased CDs or simply donated money to various street musicians (New Alburado, for instance, creates a blend of Chilean, Andean, and Peruvian music -- I ran into them performing live outside Luray Caverns, of all places!) If you have something I'm interested in and I can find it for purchase, I'll happily support your endeavors in exchange for a chance to enjoy the music. The one thing that these have in common though, is that I'm able to hear the music before I purchase it, so I know what I'm getting and whether I like it in advance.
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That which does not kill me merely prolongs the agony.
[text was edited by author 2003-07-27 13:00:10] | |
SRFireside
join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX
| reply to pianotech
I am betting that royalty charge on blank audio CD's doesn't go to any artist at all. I bet all of that money goes to the record label's coffers. It would be easy for them to legally keep the money as the artist cannot prove their music was going to be copied on these disks. However the label can say the money is helping the musician through funding the marketing and promotional costs. Of course this is all bunk, but on paper it looks all nice and legal.
So as far as the artist is concerned those blank audio disks do NOTHING to support them.
BTW wtansill not all blank CD's have that royalty surcharge. Only blank CD's marked as audio, and I seriously doubt people buy those to back up computer data.
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Love Science Fiction? www.spacestationzoom.com | |
wtansill
Ncc1701
join:2000-10-10
Falls Church, VA
| said by SRFireside :
BTW wtansill not all blank CD's have that royalty surcharge. Only blank CD's marked as audio, and I seriously doubt people buy those to back up computer data.
A good point. Frankly, I but the discount CDs 50-100 to a spindle. I've not explicitly checked the see if they were "Audio" CDs or not. That said, I've used them to back up audio CDs for use in my wife's van, the CD player in my machine at work, etc. with no issues. I'm guessing that the public at large does not make the distinction either -- they see a spindle of CDs on the shelf at CompUSA, for instance, and add them to their cart, "Audio" or not...
Regardless of the above -- if you produce music of a genre I like, and it is easily available outside the clutches of the RIAA, I'll certainly consider buying it. You too are a musician, yes?
--
That which does not kill me merely prolongs the agony.
[text was edited by author 2003-07-27 13:27:29] | |
pianotech
Pianotech
Premium
join:2002-12-30
New Castle, PA
| reply to SRFireside
said by SRFireside :
I am betting that royalty charge on blank audio CD's doesn't go to any artist at all. I bet all of that money goes to the record label's coffers. It would be easy for them to legally keep the money as the artist cannot prove their music was going to be copied on these disks. However the label can say the money is helping the musician through funding the marketing and promotional costs. Of course this is all bunk, but on paper it looks all nice and legal.
So as far as the artist is concerned those blank audio disks do NOTHING to support them.
You are absolutely right, and I highly doubt those so-called "royalties" are distributed to any artists also. The RIAA has a long history of screwing the artists AND the consumer (like the recent price-fixing case that was settled), and that's just another example of it.
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Composer, performer, pianist | |
pianotech
Pianotech
Premium
join:2002-12-30
New Castle, PA
| Speaking of the RIAA screwing artists, you all know how Buddy Holly was killed in a plane crash...but did you know why he was in the plane in the first place? Because he was broke and had to do the Winter Dance Party to support himself and his new bride. The kicker...he already had a string of top-10 hits, his label had made millions...and he was still broke! So the rest is history...charter a cheap private plane, organize a tour, and blam.
Same with Jim Croce. Though he had two platinum albums and a string of top-10 hits in the 70's, he also was broke. ABC Records had already made millions, but not a cent of it had been distributed to him yet. Same circumstances as with Holly, he put together a tour as cheaply as he could since he couldn't afford better, chartered a cheap, rickety private plane, ...end of Croce.
Just two examples of the recording industry ripping off established, prestigious, profitable acts. There are many more, I'm sure.
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Composer, performer, pianist | |
SRFireside
join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX
| reply to wtansill
My bet is people get the data CD's since they are cheaper. Only the ones who don't know the difference would buy the audio blanks.
Yes I am a musician, but don't have an album produced at this time (long story). I do have a mess of work-in-progress songs I have no issues sharing. I suppose you can say it's mostly electronica with some ambient music thrown in. Though I do play around with various other styles of music.
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Love Science Fiction? www.spacestationzoom.com | |
wtansill
Ncc1701
join:2000-10-10
Falls Church, VA
| said by SRFireside :
My bet is people get the data CD's since they are cheaper. Only the ones who don't know the difference would buy the audio blanks.
Yes I am a musician, but don't have an album produced at this time (long story). I do have a mess of work-in-progress songs I have no issues sharing. I suppose you can say it's mostly electronica with some ambient music thrown in. Though I do play around with various other styles of music.
Any possibility of hearing any of it? I just clicked the link on PianoTech's response and wound up at MP3.com. Wife's out of town with the credit card (long story here too  ), but having sampled the available tracks from "Tranquility", I intend to purchase the CD as soon as I get access to the card. I'd *prefer* to purchase directly if possible though -- I'm one of those Luddites who doesn't much care for online shopping <sigh>
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That which does not kill me merely prolongs the agony. | |
SRFireside
join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX
| Aside from finding the artist name I go under (The Human Race) on KazaA the only other way, and likely best way since I hardly use P2P these days, would be a direct file transfer via AIM, ICQ, email or whatever else is out there. I don't have an ftp server set up. Like I said before I am not heavily promoting so I have no excuse for not making money on my music. I do have a PayPal account though if any music lovers want to contribute  .
If seriously interested in hearing some stuff send me a private message and we can work out the details.
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Love Science Fiction? www.spacestationzoom.com | |
pianotech
Pianotech
Premium
join:2002-12-30
New Castle, PA
| Ncc 1701,
Thanks for the listen and for the kind words.
Fireside,
Count me in as well...I'd love to hear your stuff. Let me know how to make it happen.
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Composer, performer, pianist | |
pianotech
Pianotech
Premium
join:2002-12-30
New Castle, PA | I gotta tell ya, you guys are making me rethink.. | |
TheMadSwede
Premium
join:2001-01-30
Holland, MI
 ·Charter Pipeline
| reply to pianotech
said by pianotech :
Speaking of the RIAA screwing artists, you all know how Buddy Holly was killed in a plane crash...but did you know why he was in the plane in the first place? Because he was broke and had to do the Winter Dance Party to support himself and his new bride. The kicker...he already had a string of top-10 hits, his label had made millions...and he was still broke! So the rest is history...charter a cheap private plane, organize a tour, and blam.
Same with Jim Croce. Though he had two platinum albums and a string of top-10 hits in the 70's, he also was broke. ABC Records had already made millions, but not a cent of it had been distributed to him yet. Same circumstances as with Holly, he put together a tour as cheaply as he could since he couldn't afford better, chartered a cheap, rickety private plane, ...end of Croce.
Just two examples of the recording industry ripping off established, prestigious, profitable acts. There are many more, I'm sure.
I'm definitely not a RIAA fan. But don't blame the lables for creating contracts that benefit only themselves, because a contract needs to be signed by both parties to be valid.
So if someone signs a crappy contract, they should not complain that it's crappy -- because they signed it. If they didn't read what they signed, shame on them. If they read it and liked the potential for a lot of money, but ignored the possible downsides, then double shame on them.
If artists (and I use the term loosely) don't like labels, they should not sign with a label. It's harder to get "screwed over" if you haven't signed on the dotted line for anyone.
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Cable Cable Cable...keep that cable rolling. | |
pianotech
Pianotech
Premium
join:2002-12-30
New Castle, PA
| I understand what you're saying, but practically speaking, the labels had (still have, in many ways) complete control over distribution. Without them you didn't have a chance. Yes, the artists signed the labels and had to know what they were getting into, but I'm sure there was a decent share of the proverbial carrot-dangling in front of them too.
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Music for a rainy day... | |
TheMadSwede
Premium
join:2001-01-30
Holland, MI
·Charter Pipeline
| said by pianotech :
I understand what you're saying, but practically speaking, the labels had (still have, in many ways) complete control over distribution. Without them you didn't have a chance. Yes, the artists signed the labels and had to know what they were getting into, but I'm sure there was a decent share of the proverbial carrot-dangling in front of them too.
Agreed. It is one of "those things", as they say.
The only reason I said that is because I think it is important that everyone keep a realistic approach to this issue. Too many people just want to bash the RIAA; and while most of it is warranted, some folks just bash because they've grown used to doing it.
Many professions, few so glamorous as musician, place folks in a similar predicament.
For instance, taxi driver. Most major metropolitan areas require "medallions" (licenses) for a cab to be legal in the most congested areas (like Wall Street or 5th ave or Chicago's Loop / Michigan Ave). For a regular sedan, these often cost over $250,000 per vehicle. So while there is no rule preventing an independent operator from having his own cab, every driver pretty much has to join a company in order to be able to afford it. (And in some cases they are then indebted to the company.)
However, in outlying areas, the medallions are often cheaper, allowing an operator to get into the business. They aren't in a high impact area where they can make tons of money on a consistent basis, but at least they get into the business. So they get paid - just not as much as potential might indicate.
Now, I know driving a taxi is different than playing music. And I've simplified the whole licensing process. But it's an interesting comparison.
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Cable Cable Cable...keep that cable rolling. | |
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