suedama
@swbell.ne
| reply to icp1
The Legitimacy of RIAA Subpoenas?
My concern goes back to the now infamous Brianna case reported in the NEw York TImes. While many will go back and forth on file trading, that really isnt my concern. America is fickle, we sell dual cassette players and all of our VCRS have the ability to record. To simply say that the "internet" is the breeding ground for intellectual property violation is insane. We have been copying intellectual property for over two decades. As far as file sharing goes, once VCR's are not allowed to record, and our cassette recorders (dual or otherwise) are not allowed to record from the radio or any other aux device then the RIAA has an argument, untill then, they don't.
In the case of Brianna, she was not old enough to have a utility bill, and certanly not old enough to sign any contract. SO this means in order for the RIAA to serve her and not her parents, the only way they would have gotten information to subpoena her directly by name,would have been by hacking the computer she had. And by doing that was able to get her home address. IF this was one adult male doing this to protect his intellectual property rights, he would be probably being listed as a sex offender by now, because he illegally obtained information under Title 18, to exploit a minor.
The RIAA with their many subpoenas are showing how they are allowed to Break the law, Title 18 (Federal), and do so with impunity.
Privacy is an important thing. Until File Sharing and VCR recording of television shows are deemed illegal, this is is a gray situation. However, hacking is not. It is a crime. There are many federal laws, and many more state laws regarding this. I believe SBC stance on not releasing any information is a good thing, and should be recognized as on going policy they have reenforced for many decades before the internet. |
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Suzyrain
join:2003-07-13
Bryan, TX
| reply to CCCMTech
Re: How does SBC stand RE: recent RIAA activity?
On some comp security group the manager of a privacy service
claimed he "rolled" the logs once a week. In contrast I've
read that in th UK it was becoming law that an isp archive
customer logs for over 5 years. I've only read that once, so I don't really know, but that seems a bit excessive. Does sbc have a universal policy? |
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CCCMTech
Premium,VIP,MVM
join:2002-05-17
Pound, VA
| reply to Suzyrain
generally from what I've heard and seen, simply the ip you had, what time you received it and what time you released it, your login information (failed and passed attempts), traffic in bytes you sent and received. Usually only ISPs or businesses with Proxies monitor the info your worried about. If the government, the business or whatever has a log with ip x.x.x.x and they find it's our IP, they get a subpoena and we have to tell them who had that ip at that time and it narrows it down.
--
Thank you for choosing SBC Internet Services. My name is Rick. How may I help you today? |
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Suzyrain
join:2003-07-13
Bryan, TX
| reply to CCCMTech
What exact information does an ISP log.
Let's say from 1pm to 1:30pm I visit a website/newsgroup etc
called "Joe's Illegal Downloads" (JID). I've heard great things about a band called the DSL All Stars, in particular
their tender ballad "Librarians In Leather". I search around for awhile and finally download that one tune.
What would show up on the ISP log? |
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kwenda
join:2003-07-25
Fort Worth, TX | reply to d_l
And another link...
SBC Questions RIAA and Constitutionality of the DMCA |
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d_l
Barsoom
Premium,MVM
join:2002-12-08
Reno, NV | reply to DFWDraco76
Well here is how part of SBC stands on the RIAA subpoenas: Pac Bell's Internet arm sues music industry over file-sharer IDs. |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
| reply to Flippant
said by Flippant  :
said by Maxo :
The RIAA has actually pushed to make buying used CDs illegal.
Please this is thread will in all likelyhood spin out of control all by itself, let's try to keep the subject narrow.
Thanks!
Wasn't trying to troll. I know A LOT of people on this site have absolutely no control or respect when it comes to discussing this issue. I was just trying to answer the question about why buying used CDs is legal. I was careful to state only facts and was not trying to give the impression that I was either pro-RIAA or anti-RIAA. Anyone who wants to argue with anything I said will be promptly ignored (by me.)
--
"Knowhutimean, Vern?" - Ernest P. Worrellhttp://www.maxolasersquad.com |
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netgear
Restless Native
Premium
join:1999-12-20
Arlington, TX
 ·AT&T DSL Service
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to DFWDraco76
Subpoena Username Query Form
Concerned that information about your file-sharing username may have been subpoenaed by the RIAA? Check here to see if your username or IP address is on one of the subpoenas filed with the D.C. District Court. This information is drawn from the court's publicly available PACER database and will be updated when that system is updated.
»www.eff.org/IP/P2P/riaasubpoenas/ |
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Havicaz
join:2001-07-17
Ballwin, MO
| reply to DFWDraco76
Charter is resisting turning over the names of 67 customers that the RIAA gave them subpoenas for, story can be found here.
»www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/s···suit#top
got it off the charter forum.
kudos to the guys over there |
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Flippant
So Much For Subtlety
Premium,Mod
join:2000-06-04
Katy, TX
Host:
Filesharing Software
Earthlink Cable
Texas Gulf Coast
AT&T U-verse
AT&T Southwest
| reply to Maxo
said by Maxo :
The RIAA has actually pushed to make buying used CDs illegal.
Please this is thread will in all likelyhood spin out of control all by itself, let's try to keep the subject narrow.
Thanks! |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
| reply to cupcars
The RIAA has actually pushed to make buying used CDs illegal. But the way it works when you purchase CD your are purchasing the intellectual rights to that one copy of the contents of that CD. You are then allowed to make on copy only for backup. You can then let others "borrow" your right to that song and things of the such.
When you sell the CD you are selling your personal right to own that copy of that song. You must then destroy any backups you may have.
I'm not a legal expert or anything but from everything I've read and heard here and there that's the way I gather it works.
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"You know what I mean Vern?" - Ernest P. Worrellhttp://www.maxolasersquad.com |
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cupcars
Premium
join:2000-12-14
Tulsa, OK
clubs:
| reply to DFWDraco76
My thoughts......First of all I'm not trying to justify file sharing as a legitimate practice. I know that one person could share a single song and it could turn into millions of copies and the RIAA would not make a penny.
However, if file sharing is illegal then how is it ok for music stores and pawn shops to sell used cd's? The RIAA is only making money off the original sell of the cd, then the person who sell's it makes maybe a third of his money back, the store then sells it for a profit to a person who now has the music files and the RIAA did not make a penny off the transaction.
This example is showing the cd changing hands 3 times ( 2 of which is for the listening of) and yes that is a far cry from the millions of copies being exchanged on the internet but, the bottom line is all about the money...and no money is being made from the sell of used cd's.
Will they (RIAA) go after the resellers next?
Just my thoughts:)
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You can please some of the people some of the time... but...you can't please all of the people all of the time |
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prosecutor
Do Your Duty--Be A Juror
Premium
join:2002-11-15
Plano, TX
| reply to icp1
said by icp1 :
Just because I have never downloaded a song doesn't mean they can't get all my "private" info from my ISP and do whatever they want with it.
Actually, if they have no proof that you did anything wrong and subpoena your information anyway, then you can probably sue them. Some states have a cause of action called abuse of process, some might call it malicious prosecution. If you think RIAA has subpoenaed you and you've done nothing wrong, call a lawyer and talk about the possibility of a class action suit against RIAA's litigation tactics. This presupposes that the talk about RIAA's abuse is true.
The solution is not to change the general subpoena laws. That will only hurt you in the long run.
RIAA's investigation is very expensive. It is doubtful that they would attempt to subpoena records for anyone that they don't have alot of proof on. If they made that mistake, it could really hurt them financially if they are sued.
[text was edited by author 2003-07-29 11:23:53] |
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GPorter
It Always Works Better When It's On
join:2001-03-21
San Antonio, TX
| reply to DFWDraco76
One way the RIAA is deciding whom to target is by simply looking for P2P servers that offer a lot of music. Pretty straightforward, huh? I (grudgingly) have to agree that if someone is blatantly offering to share MP3s of copyrighted works that they deserve the RIAA's attention. They also deserve a nice big sign that says "I'm stupid!", but that's another matter.;)
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Glenn-Remembering 9-11-01 "Let's Roll!" |
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CCCMTech
Premium,VIP,MVM
join:2002-05-17
Pound, VA
| reply to icp1
Not sure how the RIAA is doing it now. Last I heard they were doing searches and browsing the files, people with a lot of songs they would suspect has been downloading them illegally. They would get several names then ask for a subpoena. Not sure how much of it has changed.
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There is no such thing as a dumb question. Better to ask and get it right, than to guess and mess it up. |
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icp1
Premium
join:2000-10-13
Saint Louis, MO
clubs:
·AT&T DSL Service
| reply to TazDev
said by TazDev:
Amazing how some people justify criminal activity. You wouldn't expect SBC to withhold information if bank robbers were using their network to plan heists. No reason for SBC to withhold information when people are stealing copyrighted music.
It's about time the RIAA started playing hardball, and it's good to know SBC will cooperate in their efforts to stop illegal file sharing.
That's sort of what this debate is about...as far as I know the RIAA can request info on anyone from any ISP that they "suspect" of breaking the law...they do not have to have any proof whatsoever to get all my info.
Just because I have never downloaded a song doesn't mean they can't get all my "private" info from my ISP and do whatever they want with it.
I am not saying they shouldn't go after "law-breakers" (using the term loosely), but who's policing what info they can get or how they use it? No one that I know of, I wish someone who knew more would chime in... |
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TazDev
@twtelecom.net
| reply to DFWDraco76
Amazing how some people justify criminal activity. You wouldn't expect SBC to withhold information if bank robbers were using their network to plan heists. No reason for SBC to withhold information when people are stealing copyrighted music.
It's about time the RIAA started playing hardball, and it's good to know SBC will cooperate in their efforts to stop illegal file sharing. |
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aatucker
join:2000-03-10
Belton, MO
| reply to DFWDraco76
Very simple - THE LAW IS THE LAW. Go read the COPYRIGHT LAWS and it is easy to understand. Just because you don't get caught stealing (yes it is stealing), doesn't make it right. This is one problem in our society today - not enough enforcement of the law. I don't think any of the real offenders would tolerate this if the shoe was on the other foot.
AT |
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ctp
@dividezero.net | reply to DFWDraco76
I'll keep using my *REAL* source for getting "stuff" over my sbc dsl. I hope all you Kazaa nubs burn in hell, that stuff is illegal. (*pets ssl/tls ftps you will never see in your wildest dreams). Flame me. I want the attention. I am desperate. |
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Balzer
Cat Man Dew
join:2000-12-18
Tulsa
·Cox HSI
| reply to DFWDraco76
They said it has been abused YET, but here it comes anyone can us the DCMA. You don't have to have any proof for what you are going to use the info for. But let someone go and get all some ISPs users info and sell it to another country or use it to kill, rape, or ID theft, and the law will change. Guess what it will happen. And there is nothing no body and do about it at all. The gate has been open. What safe guard is there to stop someone for using the info to do harm? |
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