strosien
join:2000-07-08
Livonia, MI | reply to coolkurg
Re: Different stories from everyone - help!!
Thanks for the post. Too bad I have no option but Time Warner RR, but thats the way it goes.
Scott |
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coolkurg
join:2001-06-13
Palm Beach Gardens, FL
|  reply to strosien
said by strosien:
A guy from Covad was spouting off to me yesterday in response to my question about the 15000' limit and he said that NP was using "hubs" (he said it was like a mini-CO) in the line to increase distance and that Covad does not use those. I had never heard of such a thing. He could not help me further.
Can anyone shed some light on this hub stuff??.
I know this is a reply to a pretty old post, and I didn't check the other two pages of replies yet, but what the hey.. The "hub" he was most likely talking about is a repeater device. It's a device that lies between the central office and your home and receives all incoming voice/data traffic bound for your home and boosts the signal and re-transmits it from there to your house. That essentially would make your distance to your line distance the distance from your house to the repeater - virtually eliminating the problem of being too far away from the C.O. Many telcos and ISPs are beginning to use these to increase the number of subscribing users to help increase competition and bring in some more revenue. These "repeaters" often exist inside of the large telco boxes that sit off to the side of the road near the entrances to neighborhoods. I believe I recently got my ADSL from Telocity installed due to these repeaters getting installed in my neighborhood. Previously, my Northpoint IDSL service was the only service in my area. I don't believe my C.O. has changed. |
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susangg6
join:2001-03-28
Fremont, CA
| reply to Bucko9
Re: This should clear things up for everyone...
Good for you, Bucko! FIGHT BACK!
Megapath called today to tell me that my DSL line was up and ready ... but when Cody in tech support tried to ping it, he couldn't find it...so he got Rhythms on the line and they tried together, no luck...Cody called me back an hour later and said that the telco (Pac Bell) was replacing all the jumpers for a whole bunch of customers and that they would work through the weekend to complete this and I should have my DSL up and running no later than noon on Tuesday. Of course, Pac Bell had neglected to tell anyone that there was a "jumper problem..."
Cody said that the "new line" had been tested and passed and the "provisioning" process was completed.
We'll see! |
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Bucko9
join:2001-04-24
Portland, OR | reply to Anon
The same this happened to me with Telocity and Pacific Bell. I contacted the California Public Utilities Commission and they have given me some hope that a solution can be reached. . . |
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susangg6
join:2001-03-28
Fremont, CA
| reply to Anon
This cries out for a LAWSUIT! It's a blatant violation of the telecommunications act of 1996. It's CLASS ACTION time!
Where are Megapath's lawyers? Where is TURN?
Are they going to sit back and take this crap? If they don't sic their lawyers on the scumbag Bells, they will go down and that would be a shame! |
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Anon |  reply to carrieg2
I received this email from Megapath today (Megapath, IMHO, is the best ISP available and ALWAYS bent over backwards to meet my needs.) Anyway...onto the email:
"We previously communicated that we placed an order to reprovision your DSL
service, but encountered facilities issues with available circuits from your
local phone company. We then informed you that MegaPath would reprovision
using a "hot cut" process. This process involves the phone company
switching the existing circuit from the former NorthPoint line to a new
circuit provisioned by Rhythms. MegaPath chose this alternative as the only
option available to reprovision your line due to facilities issues - meaning
there were no circuits available to activate your service.
Unfortunately, we are unable to activate your line at this time, as the
telephone company is no longer doing hot cuts due to low success rates.
Their database continues to show there are no circuits available.
The purpose of this letter is to (a) explain the current situation, (b)
detail actions MegaPath has taken, and (c) outline alternative access
solutions / sources that may be available for your Internet connectivity.
Question: Why are there no circuits available when I previously had one for
my MegaPath DSL line through NorthPoint?
Answer: The phone company must completely clear a circuit in their database
to confirm that it is not in use prior to making it available for new
services. Although the NorthPoint lines have been available for over a
month, the circuits have not been released by the phone company because they
still show that they are in use and not available for assignment of new
services. The demand for new circuits and non-release of old circuits
falsely shows a shortage of circuit availability in the telephone company's
database.
Question: How has MegaPath handled this situation?
Answer: MegaPath repeatedly resubmitted your order after it was rejected for
lack of circuit availability. We repeated our requests for service
immediately after the previous order was rejected to increase our chances of
obtaining recently released circuits.
Unfortunately, after many attempts, we were not successful
in obtaining the circuit needed for your new service.
Question: What other alternatives do I have?
Answer: Although MegaPath cannot recommend an exact solution that will fit
your specific business needs, we recommend www.GetConnected.com.
GetConnected.com will allow you to search for a variety of broadband
connection options that are available in your location.
Question: Can I go directly to the phone company and get DSL service?
Answer: The phone company may be able to offer you ADSL service. While this
may not beoptimal for your specific business needs, an ADSL connection is
provisioned over your existing voice line; therefore, you do not need a new
circuit assigned. You will need to determine if the restricted upload
speeds meet your requirements.
We have enjoyed serving your broadband solution needs and while we regret
losing you as a customer, we hope this information will assist you in
locating a new provider.
Sincerely,
MegaPath Networks"
A sad day indeed. Since the phone company has no idea what they are doing, we all get screwed. The End. |
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GarageJoe
U2 Rocks
join:2001-03-21
Scottsdale, AZ
|  reply to carrieg2
Re: Different stories from everyone - help!!
WHEW, and here I thought all this time the telco cops got you. Guess I can forget about the prison escape plan I was hatching. (Honey, dont worry about putting that file in the cake anymore)
--
Matthew
Ex-Northpoint, Qwest, Covad OSP Network Technician |
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carrieg2
join:2001-01-08
Cherry Hill, NJ
| reply to SparkChaser
Hello - I am sorry I just disappeared from this entire thread, after asking so many questions and getting some very useful information from a lot of people. I got *swamped* and didn't even log on to DSL reports.... I haven't read through everything yet, or even know if people are still participating in this thread. I just feel bad - I took off after everyone was so helpful :-( In any case, to answer your question Ron, though you may have already found something by now, I didn't see this particular plan listed on DSLi's site. When I prequalified, this plan did not come up, but I noticed that Rhythms stated that they could provide SDSL past 18,000ft. I asked DSLi and they told me about this plan, but I think technically it is a business plan, (I *think*) though the monthly fee is not much more and they will run it to residential locations
--
Is xDSL becoming a four-letter word? |
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hufnagel
join:2001-03-24
Berkeley Heights, NJ
| reply to carrieg2
Re: My fun IDSL line
On 03/08/2001 Telocity sent a NorthPoint install tech out to my place to test and set up the line. Had the PFU (more on this later) do the connect test right at my phone box (much to his amazement.) Then he did something that I'll love until the day I die... he TAGGED THE LINE WITH IT'S PON# !!!!!! 
Just let someone tell me they don't know the circuit number! 
And to think I almost threw the tag out! Think I'll GLUE it to the wire in a minute.
FYI: PFU == pimply faced youth (don't think the kid was old enough to SHAVE, much less drive.) |
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SparkChaser
BURY BECK
Premium
join:2000-06-06
Downingtown, PA
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Comcast
| reply to GarageJoe
Re: Different stories from everyone - help!!
Let's see if I got this, I own the IW and Verizon owns the CO and the copper from the CO to my IW? Got it!
Carrie,
I went outside and looked at the NI (network interface) and opened up the part that says telco only. Probably commited some federal crime:). Anyway, the Verizon tech, bless his heart, left a neat little tag IDing the line and the fact that it's Northpoint. Don't know if they did the same for you. Take a look but don't let the Telco Cops see you.
Ron |
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GarageJoe
U2 Rocks
join:2001-03-21
Scottsdale, AZ
| reply to Anon
So you want to follow the money huh? LOL well I will try to help out. (how come I feel like a teacher everytime i read this thread, not that I mind but I feel very inadequate.) Anyway on to THIS lesson at hand. Everyone take out your notebooks again for there will be a test next week. Lets start with your house. You own your IW. that your landlord, or other leasing company or legal entity. But to be basic no other telecommunication company owns your line. Even if you sign a contract with a company to do work and maintain it, you own your lines. Up to the DMARC, NIC, or MPOE. (for those of you taking notes these basically all mean the same location however technically are in use in different meanings.) Beyond the DMARC, the ILEC owns the lines, you "lease" the line when you order phone service but you are not the one required to maintain the lines for the agreement the ILEC makes with you when you order service is that they will provide "service" to you. this is all the way to the central office going thru F1's F2's and sometimes even F3's In the central office where the lines from your house come in, they have what we call block's that have jumper wires connected to it. These wires connect this line in the central office to this piece of equipment and without getting to complicated this is where your CLEC service comes in that provides DSL service this block connects to the blocks that provide service. Now that we understand the line in whole lets go over who pays for what. The first part of the order is the ILEC doing there provisioning. This means that they do the jumper connection (between the CLEC block and the outside plant that is known as the F1 they connect the F1 to the F2 in the SAC or B-box (ILECS have different names for this box) they then connect your F2 to your drop that goes to your house (this is the case only if you dont have anymore facilities like a F3 or more) the drop is what is connected to your DMARC. This is all taken care of by the ILEC, the CLEC will maintain the cards in the CO but mainly are taking care ofyour IW for your DSL service they "maintain it for you". now to get more specific about who exactly pays for the charges. Obviously the ILEC isnt going to fix or condition the line for free. These charges are passed on to the CLEC. Now this is where it gets dicey. Depending on the contract that the CLEC has with the ISP sometimes there are flat charges for the "normal conditioning" and extra's will be added, well extra. for example usually CLECs dont pay for bridge tap removal. The ISP would have to pay extra for that. This flat fee usually pays for the CLEC to have the ILEC condition the line and to connect to the circuit to the IW and test the IW. This is all included in that flat fee. I am sorry that I make this is complicated. I hope this information helps you all a little more. Please dont hesitate to ask any questions should they arise.
--
Matthew
Ex-Northpoint, Qwest, Covad OSP Network Technician |
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Anon |  reply to carrieg2
carrie,
i got the same line from NAS, and i don't know...i just don't believe them. I'll admit that it was a month ago, but i got the same bull from the isp that i signed with regarding rhythms. In my case it was a story about how rhythms and northpoint use the same equipment..and that a 'hot cut' should be a piece of cake. Well, it was no piece of cake...and at the last minute unfamiliarity with my EQUIPMENT almost cost me another 2 weeks getting set up.
So so much for what they SAY.
mY question for those of you who work in the industry...is who gets paid for what? Someone once said..follow the money. The tech guys from verizon don't come out and work for free..who is paying them? And when the rhythms tech comes to your place to connect the new 'pair' (or whatever you call it) is that billed back to the isp?
You see where i'm going with this? If rhythms has a 'fixed price' installation charge to the isp, then it would behoove rhythms to do anything they can to avoid all this useless labor driving around the countryside reinventing the wheel. But if they are charging the isp for each one of these service calls...then the whole thing is just a windfall if they work it right.
It could be that NAS is charging higher prices at the outset..and providing 'fixed rate' installation charges.
I'm completely guessing. But i would love to know. |
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SparkChaser
BURY BECK
Premium
join:2000-06-06
Downingtown, PA
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
| reply to carrieg2
said by carrieg:
I decided to take a shot at getting 384/384 SDSL with Rhythms
What plan did you get, business, residential? After all your looking and since we have almost identical physical line problems I decided I should check out DSLi.
Ron |
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GarageJoe
U2 Rocks
join:2001-03-21
Scottsdale, AZ
| reply to Anon
well, jmarshall, how do you do. I too worked for NP and hope that you have found work as well. Anyway, I am not disagreeing with what my former employee said but do wish to clarify. I will not paint as dismal a picture as jmarshall did but will hope to help you understand why. (like someone said earlier, once you have read all this information you should rent yourself out as a consultant.) anyway back to the story at hand. the question: Why does SDSL, ADSL, IDSL and any other dsl have limitations? Answer: It all has to do with the electronics of a circuit. Now voice and data operate at different bandwidth data is higher. and consumes alot more bandwidth than voice. now when you have a voice line that is getting scrambled or foggy (both ILEC terms for the line getting to far to use) they put a repeater on the line which in essence boasts the signal. But why does the signal need to be boasted. With this has to do with the theory of electricity. When you have voltage you also have resistance. The resistance on the line is directly parallel (sp?) to the voltage. Voice uses only 56 by FCC standards unless it has digital equipment on the line and then its a bit higher (usually 128) the resistance is what degrades the signal to the pt of not being able to be usable. when this happens to voice like i said they put a repeater on the line. when it happens to data there isnt anything they can do. This also is the reason why they drop the speed the farther out you get. the more resistance the more electronic noise on the line that interferes with the data stream, you lower the speed thus lowering the volts needed thus lowering the resistance you might be able to get the db level to a place that you can actually have a data stream. So back to why i started this little lesson. Its not hard to provision a line. It costs money and the more you condition the more it costs because of the time it takes. However there are a lot of POTS lines that are good enough for data because the requirements arent MUCH more than data requirements. So its possible to be able to get a clean enough line above the distance limit that many CLECs set. This theory of what happens to a line the farther you get is why they set those standards. But as you can imagine there are alot of variables, and so its very possible that you could get service at the distance you are at. I hope this information helps.
--
Matthew
Ex-Northpoint, Qwest, Covad OSP Network Technician |
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GarageJoe
U2 Rocks
join:2001-03-21
Scottsdale, AZ
| reply to Anon
.
.
[text was edited by author 2001-05-04 05:35:50] |
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GarageJoe
U2 Rocks
join:2001-03-21
Scottsdale, AZ
| reply to Anon
.
[text was edited by author 2001-05-04 05:35:02] |
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GarageJoe
U2 Rocks
join:2001-03-21
Scottsdale, AZ
| reply to Anon
.
[text was edited by author 2001-05-04 05:33:59] |
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Anon | reply to carrieg2
Re: Different stories from everyone - help!!
If......
That's the "Key word" here....
If..you have perfect copper it will work to 18kf or more. The problem is that areas like NY, with its ancient facilities, shouldn't be provisioning lines past 15kf.
I have seen a 24kf SDSL ckt work at 640kbps, but that is an anomaly.
P.S. Good luck getting residential IDSL in the future. any self respecting CLEC that wants to make any money just won't provision this product. (for residential).
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carrieg2
join:2001-01-08
Cherry Hill, NJ
| reply to Anon
said by jmarshall57:
I was employed at NP and the reason other CLECS will not go to 18k is not due to any "Hub" it's simply the fact that SDSL will not be stable after 15k
I had always assumed that someone who was 18000 ft from the CO (like me) could only get IDSL. I just signed up for SDSL via Rhythms - they claim they can provide stable SDSL service up to 19000 or 20000 ft. (???) Everyone else - Northpoint (my old CLEC) and every place else I check says IDSL is the best I can get. I decided to take a shot at getting 384/384 SDSL with Rhythms, figuring that if they found out I couldn't actually get SDSL service, I'd just go with what I had before - IDSL. Did I just sign up for something that will probably be unstable DSL service then? Yargh.
Eh, I'll just spring for a T-1 at this point (sha! right!)
--
Is xDSL becoming a four-letter word? |
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Anon | reply to carrieg2
I was employed at NP and the reason other CLECS will not go to 18k is not due to any "Hub" it's simply the fact that SDSL will not be stable after 15k. NP offered up to 18k and the problems with the service were unbelievable,(many interuptions with service). It was only in Jan that NP decided to sell to 15kf only and save some money on repeat "truck rolls". By that time Verizon had killed us by pulling out of the sale. anyway.....NP has the same basic DSLAMS as other CLECS. No special "Hubs". |
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