wowgames
join:2003-03-05
Worcester, MA
|  [Connection] Charter and Slow download while uploading
This is in a way a reply to a post from May, but It seems right to start a new thread. Person was complaing about slow speeds from charter and I reccomend you others with charter try this too because it is a nationwide problem with charter, only they wont admit its a problem because they probably did it on purpose to stop file sharing or something.
1) Find a big file you can upload
2) Log on to an ftp for free hosting or paid hosting or whatever you have (charter hosting will work fine)
3) Go to microsoft.com downloads section and look for a big file such as directx for software vendors
4) Start uploading file on ftp
5) start downloading from microsoft.com
if both are going at the same time you will notice that the download starts fast and slowly progresses to zero. 5 of my friends in this area have this problem, and so do I. I've had it first in april when a tech said it was a problem with all of charters config files and changed my config file. Now my ip changed so I have the bad config file again because charter still hasn't fixed the problem.
Now either charter is doing this on purpose or something is seriously wrong. This service is slower than free juno or netzero. |
|
stan999
Premium,VIP
join:2001-11-19
Fort Worth, TX
| said by wowgames  :
if both are going at the same time you will notice that the download starts fast and slowly progresses to zero. 5 of my friends in this area have this problem, and so do I. I've had it first in april when a tech said it was a problem with all of charters config files and changed my config file. Now my ip changed so I have the bad config file again because charter still hasn't fixed the problem.
Now either charter is doing this on purpose or something is seriously wrong. This service is slower than free juno or netzero.
Hi wowgames,
If you saturate your cable modem's upload cap with an upload, the ACK packets of your download will have to queue up waiting for a gap between the upload data packets. This can greatly reduce your download speeds and also cause high ping times.
See:
»charterpipelinentx.net/upstreaml···ions.htm
Also:
»homepage.ntlworld.com/robin.d.h.···nup.html
Stan Gunn
--
Charter Pipeline Solutions Website, TX Charter Pipeline Texas Support Board |
|
wowgames
join:2003-03-05
Worcester, MA
| oh yeah i guess that explains why i never had this problem until AFTER charter changed there speeds, my download speed is being reduced by around 500% of my upload speed, the problem went away after the tech changed my config file before (but now it changed back), and the tech TOLD ME that this is a system-wide problem with the config files. |
|
penelope_b
join:2001-12-09
Monroe, MI
| reply to wowgames
wowgames, this is normal and standard operational procedure for TCP/IP. stan is not lying to you. please read any of the 10,000 sites you will find explaining the issue and giving solutions for resolving it by doing a search on google for the following term:
"download slow while uploading"
peace,
penelope |
|
kr33p
join:2002-08-08
Spring, TX
| reply to wowgames
if there's anything i've learned while using broadband, it's to always question what a telephone support person tells you. stan is probably the most reliable support person i have ever dealt with in the past 3 years that i've had cable (both roadrunner and charter). |
|
Buh
@15, 63.241
| reply to stan999
Re: [Connection] Charter and Slow download while u
FWIW, I had the same problem when I was on the 'bronze' package about a year ago... Even web browsing was like with dialup due to latency if I was uploading to someone. When I upgraded to the old 'gold' package (1.5 down, 384k up) , the problem either disappeared or was lessened to the extent that it was no longer noticed. Since my uploads were neutured without warning...and I'm back to 128k up, my downloads easily drop into the 1/5th of max range and my pings go nuts. I'm guessing that the modems are having to do much more regulating and can't keep up.
What are the chances that, with the old system since 384k was the max up(on any package), that our modems were previously uncapped on uploads, but something further up the line (and more capable) was regulating upload speeds and relieved the modems of such burdens?
Sorry about any typos... Damn keyboard is wearing out on my phone ;( |
|
stan999
Premium,VIP
join:2001-11-19
Fort Worth, TX
| said by Buh:
FWIW, I had the same problem when I was on the 'bronze' package about a year ago... Even web browsing was like with dialup due to latency if I was uploading to someone. When I upgraded to the old 'gold' package (1.5 down, 384k up) , the problem either disappeared or was lessened to the extent that it was no longer noticed. Since my uploads were neutured without warning...and I'm back to 128k up, my downloads easily drop into the 1/5th of max range and my pings go nuts. I'm guessing that the modems are having to do much more regulating and can't keep up.
What are the chances that, with the old system since 384k was the max up(on any package), that our modems were previously uncapped on uploads, but something further up the line (and more capable) was regulating upload speeds and relieved the modems of such burdens?
Sorry about any typos... Damn keyboard is wearing out on my phone ;(
It doesn't have anything to do with the modems. You just may not have been saturating your old upload cap of 384kbps like you can easily do with the lower 128kbps cap.
It is a TCP problem.
See:
»cable-dsl.home.att.net/#Asymmetry
You might try Netlimiter and set your Upload speed to something under 128 like 90 or 100 and see if that helps with the download speed while uploading at the same time.
»charterpipelinentx.net/upstreaml···ions.htm
It works for me.:)
Stan Gunn
--
Charter Pipeline Solutions Website, TX Charter Pipeline Texas Support Board |
|
buh
@15, 63.241
| There's definately something different going on with the lower cap, and not just the lower cap.
According to the link, a higher upload cap would have MORE effect on dl's, given the same percentage of saturation. This certainly wasn't the case, as I was on a torrent for game maps, so my uploads were max'd ... Yet my downloads were largely unaffected compared to both times my line was at 128 max.
Also, I never had this problem with my DSL that had the same upload limit . I think this rules it out as being a 'tcp problem'. Heck, I've had SDSL, ADSL, ISDN AND cable with another provider, and I've NEVER seen speeds drop 60+% because there was an upload.
time for someone else to try an answer. |
|
stan999
Premium,VIP
join:2001-11-19
Fort Worth, TX
| It also happens on DSL.
For example see: »Problem- Download speeds drop while Uploading???
There is an easy, free fix for the problem, However, you can lead a horse to water but..........
I'll give up on this thread, my last post on this one.:)
Stan Gunn
[text was edited by author 2003-09-10 15:23:00] |
|
buh
@15, 63.241
| reply to wowgames
Yes, please give up on this thread... You obviously don't want to acknowledge this is more than a simple protocol issues and would rather waste our time with irrelevant links.
Anyone else care to read what examples we've given and come up with a decent answer. |
|
chadnelson
join:2001-04-13
Sauk Rapids, MN
| 
screenshot |
|
|
wowgames
join:2003-03-05
Worcester, MA
| leave the download on longer, you will see the problem most likely. Its not supposed to happen. I was on 512/256 for a long time with no problem, upgraded to 1.5/768 no problem
got switched for 1.5/128.. no i have problems... its nothing to do with the upload and this was confirmed
I am not stupid.
I know exactly what you guys are saying and its real easy to think that maybe i dont know what I'm talking about. Unfournately for you I do and the IT fixed the problem in april but now here it is again.
DSL does not do the same thing but the d/l speed is far slower. Comcast also does not have his issue. Neither does roadrunner. Only Charter. |
|
jh827
join:2001-03-01
Saint Louis, MO
| said by wowgames :
leave the download on longer, you will see the problem most likely. Its not supposed to happen. I was on 512/256 for a long time with no problem, upgraded to 1.5/768 no problem
got switched for 1.5/128.. no i have problems... its nothing to do with the upload and this was confirmed
I am not stupid.
I don't think your stupid. I just had my upload speed cut in half because of this new stupid 2 megabit download package and now I'm experiencing the same thing you are. My downloads and web surfing are awful when I'm uploading anything. This was not an issue at all with the 1.5/256 package I used to have but certainly is like what you described with the 2/128 I now have. I definatly have had my uploads maxed out on both speed packages. |
|
chpalmer
join:2002-11-18
Belfair, WA
 ·wavebroadband
 ·VOIPo
| reply to wowgames
Re: [Connection] Charter and Slow download while uploading
This is just funny! You guys didnt understand this did you? »cable-dsl.home.att.net/#Asymmetry[?] This is fact. If you have a larger RWIN value, then you may not slow down as much during uploads.
Larger upload caps would be harder to saturate on your connection due to factors on the internet. If you were capped at say 60kpbs, how easy would it be to saturate it? How would the acknolegements for your download get through as fast as they needed to?
Try tweaking your connection and make your Rwin really big.
5**,***. Download a big file, and try your upload. Your download should be faster. Now try a smaller RWIN, 32,***.
See the difference? However, keeping an RWIN to big can result in the retransmissions of packets that can occur due to packet loss along the line, slowing you down. This is assuming you have no paket loss issues.
Packet loss on your upload can slow you down also due to the loss of these acknowledgments.
If slow downstream only happens when uploading, then most likely the stuff Stan999 provided is the only problem.
Good luck!
--
»libra.lunarpages.com/~realto3/Br···ndex.php |
|
buh
@15, 63.241
| reply to buh
Re: [Connection] Charter and Slow download while u
You people are funny... No matter how much we explain that the symptoms are not the same, and are unique to the dropped upload limit...you STILL post that irrelevant link!
I got the higher upload speeds because I USE it... Doesn't take many connections to max out a 384k connection ... And yet my lower upload speed has drastically killed my dl's when under load.
Btw, I limited the speed on my linux box to just below max upload, and the problem more or less went away... I never had to do that on my 768k/128k DSL ... Only changes are the cable modem and whatever is on charters end. Its ridiculous that I have to go to such great lengths just to be able to utilize what I pay for.
If things don't change on the 22nd... Its DSL time again... Then that's another group of crappy techs I have to deal with all over. |
|
retrogame
join:2003-04-14
Auburn, MA
·Charter Pipeline
| The reason you see this problem at 1500/2000 and not 768 is because the TCP ACK packets can eat up about 33%-50% of your upload speed at 1500/2000 and are only using 10-20% at 768k. If you are saturating your upload channel by uploading something while downloading your download will slow down, since packets originating from your computer are going to take priority. If you pull your head out of your ass and listen to someone you wouldn't be having this problem anymore. Of course, you won't do that and I am only wasting my time b y typing this. |
|
buh
@15, 63.241
| Here we go again...
Apparently you guys are too thick to understand this... So I'll lay it out nice and easy, so even a charter tech can understand it
1) DL speeds drop by as much as 70% (sometimes it just disconnects due to latency)
2) I had the problem with 128k uploads before AND after I ad 768k ... Both were equally 'saturated'
3) this DID NOT happen with my 768/128 DSL hooked to the same box/nic, doing the exact same thing
4) limiting my box to 120 or so k out seems to solve most of the issues... DOING NOTHING with my RWIN, so ack packets received the same priority. That refutes your 'theories' that you seem to repeat over and over.
This only leaves te methods by which charter is controlling my upload speeds...either on the modem or further up the line. This is my second modem (krebstar or whatever...first was 3com sharkfin)... And its locking every day under load....never had this problem at 768... Don't have the problem limiting my box to just below 128k ... But I shouldn't have to.
How hard is this to follow? Jesus... |
|
chpalmer
join:2002-11-18
Belfair, WA
·wavebroadband
·VOIPo
| 1) DL speeds drop by as much as 70% (sometimes it just disconnects due to latency)-
-when? what else are you doing at the time? have you checked for viruses, or spyware with adaware or spybot?
2) I had the problem with 128k uploads before AND after I had 768k ... Both were equally 'saturated'
-uploads saturated?
3) this DID NOT happen with my 768/128 DSL hooked to the same box/nic, doing the exact same thing.
-dsl may advertise 128 up but is probably faster in reality in many cases. how do you know for fact your upload was saturated while on dsl? It most likely was not for reasons out of your equipments control.
4) limiting my box to 120 or so k out seems to solve most of the issues... DOING NOTHING with my RWIN, so ack packets received the same priority. That refutes your 'theories' that you seem to repeat over and over.
-Nope it doesnt. Limiting your uploads gives a little extra room for the ack packets to get through giving further proof of what were trying to convey. since your modems cap remains the same.
This only leaves te methods by which charter is controlling my upload speeds...either on the modem or further up the line. This is my second modem (krebstar or whatever...first was 3com sharkfin)... And its locking every day under load....never had this problem at 768... Don't have the problem limiting my box to just below 128k ... But I shouldn't have to.
The cap is in your modem. This is normal. if you must upload and download at the same time then limit your upload speeds locally as you have done.
Join the fight to get higher upload speeds by complaining and please quit trying to tell I.T. Techs here that they dont understand. Trust me, we do!
--
»libra.lunarpages.com/~realto3/Br···ndex.php |
|
influxor6
join:2002-09-29
asheville,nc
| anytime, on any type of connection - (even LAN) that you saturate your upstream, your downstream will suffer, it IS stricly the nature of TCP connections. period.
not only is this a scientific FACT, i have seen it personally with all cable connections and dsl and lan connections that i have ever encountered.
i simply speak from experience and the understanding of TCP networking as stated in numerious FAQ's and development papers located on thousands of websites.
cheers. |
|
chpalmer
join:2002-11-18
Belfair, WA
·wavebroadband
·VOIPo
|  said by influxor6 :
anytime, on any type of connection - (even LAN) that you saturate your upstream, your downstream will suffer, it IS strictly the nature of TCP connections. period.
not only is this a scientific FACT, i have seen it personally with all cable connections and dsl and lan connections that i have ever encountered.
i simply speak from experience and the understanding of TCP networking as stated in numerous FAQ's and development papers located on thousands of websites.
cheers.
 
--
»libra.lunarpages.com/~realto3/Br···ndex.php |
|
