gloint
join:2003-07-22
Satellite Beach, FL
| New Info about Vonage new Regulatory Fees
The battle continues with Vonage about the new Regulatory Fees they are imposing. So far it has been a bloody battle so far they have refunded those fees to me for this month and next month. After receiving many canned responses from Vonage with the normal blah, blah, blah stuff in them they are fed up with me now and just have referred me to their legal department for any further response.
Just so you know the New Regulatory Recovery Fee is
Regulatory Recovery Fee – Effective April 2003 the FCC has allowed the billing of a Regulatory Recovery Fee to cover the costs associated with the billing, administration and general overheads in connection with administering certain regulatory fees.
This means this is NOT a federal tax (which Vonage keeps claiming it is) it is so they can bill you money for paper, staples, paper clips and get more money out of you. I caught them in a lie and now they are back tracking. I have retained counsel and I am going for the jugular next.
Stay tuned for the next bloody chapter of poor little me against infant goliath !! |
|
Cam
Premium
join:2003-01-25
Luther, OK
clubs: | Oh please...you are hiring a lawyer because of a $1.50 a month fee? Just cancel the service, for goodness sakes.
All we need is more frivolous lawsuits clogging up the court system. |
|
gloint
join:2003-07-22
Satellite Beach, FL
| reply to gloint
Also I forgot to mention Federal Law requires if they are going to ask for this fee (to recover expenses) they MUST make it a seperate line item on the bill. Full Disclosure is required and they chose to say it was to pay into the Universal Service Fund when actually they are just trying to recover internal expenses. Fight Fight Fight |
|
SNT
Premium
join:2002-07-17
Satellite Beach, FL
| reply to Cam
said by Cam  :
Oh please...you are hiring a lawyer because of a $1.50 a month fee? Just cancel the service, for goodness sakes.
All we need is more frivolous lawsuits clogging up the court system.
It's really only $0.50 for me.
-SNT |
|
clecrupt9
join:2002-01-22
GA
| reply to gloint
Gloint I hope you win.
This is one of the most utterly stupid moves I have ever seen. The sad part is Vonage may end up hurting the broadband phone industry as much or more than full regulation would.
Points you might want to bring up is that PRI is only taxed at 5 lines, so where does 75,000(1.50x50,000) a month come from?
And then there is the whole fighting regulation thing. And the question of do you really have a telephone line in the first place. Vonage cannot have this both ways. |
|
gloint
join:2003-07-22
Satellite Beach, FL
| reply to Cam
Lets see on one of my accounts I have 12 numbers & virtual numbers thats $18 on just one of my accounts overall it will cost me about $75 in new fees. If you let companies continue to lie to you about things they are charging then shame on you. You say whats $.50 or $1.50 more times that by 50,000 customers on a average with 2 numbers that ads up to some serious change. The more you let them get away with the more they are continually going to add a $1.00 here and a dollar there wait one year and you will see about $10 is just "NEW" regulatory fees and taxes. You need to nip it in the bud now before it gets out of hand. |
|
dsunde
join:2003-08-21
| reply to Cam
said by Cam :
Oh please...you are hiring a lawyer because of a $1.50 a month fee? Just cancel the service, for goodness sakes.
All we need is more frivolous lawsuits clogging up the court system.
Don't listen to people who say things like this. Stand up for what is right and fight unfair charges. I've been fighting a one-time $14 medical charge for 10 months. The principle of the matter is important. |
|
usa2k
Please PRAY for Rebekah
Premium,MVM
join:2003-01-26
Canton, MI
clubs:
 ·VOIPo
 ·WOW Internet and C..
·Broadvox Direct
| said by dsunde :
Don't listen to people who say things like this...
They should have just restructured their pricing. I'm content with things. It probably allowed some kind of tax shelter to do it the way they did. I've no better alternative, feature for feature in my calling area, and they've done right by me.
So who is the under-dog in this fight 
The fledgling VoIP company or the lone rebel?
I'm still impressed after all the doom-sayers that Packet8 is still at their bargain $20 unlimited. I've had more than enough saved verses SBC, I'd only save $6 and lose my 1-866 number by being really cheap with Packet8.
--
jim
Voip on Vonage|FWD FWD#24942 with voicemail!
USA2K -- no Affiliate Links or Cookies |
|
oliphant5
Got Identity?
Premium
join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA
| reply to gloint
said by gloint :
Also I forgot to mention Federal Law requires if they are going to ask for this fee (to recover expenses) they MUST make it a seperate line item on the bill. Full Disclosure is required and they chose to say it was to pay into the Universal Service Fund when actually they are just trying to recover internal expenses. Fight Fight Fight
Not that I'm happy about the fee, but neither of what you say is true. They do not call it a tax, they call it a fee AND they list it separately on their invoices.
Unlimited Local/Regional Plus Plan for 1-(xxx-xxx-xxxx)(10/03-11/02) $24.99
Sales Tax: $0.00
FET Tax: $0.75
Regulatory Recovery Fee: Details $1.50
Total Amount: $27.24
--
-- Munis Killed the Telco Star -- Powered by Barry McKockenner Racing in association with Jack Mikkokov Motorsports |
|
lifeform
join:2003-06-27
Santa Clara, CA
·Packet8
| I don't know which of you is correct on this issue but since legal relief is requested, gloint must make sure he/she is absolutely precise and accurate in the wording of his/her complaint or it will fall on deaf ears. Precision and carefully crafted argument wins cases anything else is waste of resources. (unless you have paid for your relief somehow but that is sinister beyond the scope of this post). |
|
gloint
join:2003-07-22
Satellite Beach, FL
| reply to gloint
Here is the the exact canned message I got from Vonage and lets see what we can decipher from it.
Thank you for contacting Customer Care.We appreciate this
opportunity to respond to your concerns regarding the
Regulatory Recovery Fee. As of September 20, we now charge a $1.50 per line fee separately from your Vonage service charges.
We calculate this fee based on a general apportionment basis. This means that Vonage collects $1.50 per line for every phone number assignment it has on its network. After careful analysis of Vonage fee expenses, this method was derived to be the most fair and least burdensome to our entire customer base. This method also fairly apportions fees where phone numbers originate in disparate geographic areas, as is frequently the case with our popular area code mobility and Virtual Phone NumberSM options. This fee is also collected by other providers in your area.
Vonage has achieved an unprecedented level of success in delivering quality VOIP telephony to its customers, and we
feel very fortunate to be leading this industry. With that leadership however, also comes the careful scrutiny of
regulatory agencies who have the responsibility to protect our citizens and public communications in general. Technology advances have made our service possible only recently. We wish to give clarity to lawmakers around the nation, as this is uncharted territory that we all must navigate together. Our goal in separating the fee from the general monthly bill is to provide regulatory bodies and our customers transparency in how you and Vonage already contribute to our nation's public infrastructure.
Vonage has always paid into various regulatory funds on your behalf, so even though this manner of breaking the fee out from your Vonage bill is new, the obligations paid by Vonage are not. Vonage relies upon telecommunications carrier partners to transmit calls across the traditional telephone networks. Vonage must pay accordingly for the resources we use and the requisite regulatory fees associated with those services purchased from partners. As an end-user of telecommunications resources, we pay into Universal Service Fund charges as well as other state and federal telecommunication programs (like local number portability) on your behalf. 100% of the fees we collect go these costs. Nothing is left behind for administrative costs, legal fees or any other Vonage purpose.
Our goal is to keep costs as low as possible for our customers. For this reason, we timed the RRF breakout
together with a Rate Reduction to minimize the impact of the fees to our customers. In the end, we're confident that we can work with regulatory bodies on your behalf to arrive at solutions for our young industry that are fair and balanced for everyone.
Because this is a change in the billing structure charged to all accounts, and not a question regarding a specific charge or call on your bill it is not considered a billing dispute. As such, this is not an issue to be resolved through arbitration. However, as a courtesy we
have waived the recovery fee for each account for the first two billing cycles after September 20, 2003.
We hope that this explanation was helpful in understanding our new pricing format. Thank you for your continued loyalty and business.
Sincerely,
Vonage Customer Care |
|
lifeform
join:2003-06-27
Santa Clara, CA
·Packet8
| Probably best to study this with your lawyer. I would bet none of us here are qualified to dissect that document and identify elements of it that could be used in a court of law to prove that you were wronged. If I were I lawyer, I would work with you on it for a fee of course |
|
oliphant5
Got Identity?
Premium
join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA
| reply to gloint
Well, in the letter they call it a fee and separate in full regulatory compliance on their invoices. I don't see what you're bitching about or anything here that is actionable.
Get over it. If you are unhappy with this clearly legal fee, cancel your service.
--
-- Munis Killed the Telco Star -- Powered by Barry McKockenner Racing in association with Jack Mikkokov Motorsports
[text was edited by author 2003-10-13 22:25:21] |
|
clecrupt9
join:2002-01-22
GA
| said by oliphant5 :
I don't see what you're bitching about or anything here that is actionable.
What is actionable is something called cramming. Perhaps because Vonage is a non regulated company they can add whatever they want however they want, but a fee like this on a regular landline would almost certainly be challenged. No fee has ever been charged based on phone number rather fees have always been assesed on a line by line basis. Since it is questionable as to what a line is, Vonage has had to be creative and we have no way to know if 1.50 is fair or is a cram. I briefly estimated how many PRI's/DS3's it would take for 50,000 Bearers and I come up to about 20-30,000 per month in taxes. I am not an expert but do you think they pay 75,000 per month in USF, FCC access, ect???
EDIT: It could be that they include sales tax and county tax which on a circuit would make the 20-30,000 figure higher. However why should I pay sales tax in my monthly service and do it potentially twice? Something is not quite right here.
[text was edited by author 2003-10-13 23:01:14] |
|
odnc
Premium
join:2002-02-04
Richmond, VA | reply to gloint
Perhaps I am missing something.
but,
If you are unhappy with the fees, why not cancel the service?
--
Just another brick in the wall |
|
usa2k
Please PRAY for Rebekah
Premium,MVM
join:2003-01-26
Canton, MI
clubs:
·VOIPo
·WOW Internet and C..
·Broadvox Direct
| said by odnc :
Perhaps I am missing something.
but,
If you are unhappy with the fees, why not cancel the service?
Who could get 12 numbers as cheap anywhere else? But then, it kinda like biting the hand that feeds you. Wonder if gloint kept the packaging?
--
jim
Voip on Vonage|FWD FWD#24942 with voicemail!
USA2K -- no Affiliate Links or Cookies |
|
ronin_111
join:2002-12-09
Saint Louis, MO | I'm not going to complain about the fee. My bill is now $3.65 a month cheaper. Previously $41.19 and now $37.54 |
|
LazyTT
Premium
join:2003-08-10
Brooklyn, NY
| reply to gloint
personaly, i dont think that the issue for most is the $1.50. Its the principal of it. If vonage slaped us with $1.50 today and we dont say anything, tommorow it could be $2.50. Next thig you know, Vonage will cost $25 p/mnth (unlimited) PLUS $10-$20 in "other" fees.
--
-Lazy
[text was edited by author 2003-10-14 12:50:17] |
|
Derwin0
join:2003-07-16 | reply to gloint
Would you rather they drop the seperate line item fee and raise the basic fee back up?
Sounds much ado about nothing. |
|
neftv
join:2000-10-01
Broomall, PA
·Broadvox Direct
| reply to gloint
I not subscribed to Vonage but I have to say to those who are customers that value their money even if its 18 dollars a year should fight back for something that is not the customers fault. This is how companies start to get away with stuff when you give them ground regardless of the excuse (government or otherwise).
[text was edited by author 2003-10-14 09:49:16] |
|
