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jeffpulver
Premium,VIP
join:2003-02-08
Melville, NY
| VoIP now being challenged in Oregon!
Add Oregon to the list of States that now have open proceedings going on in the VoIP space.
This time it is the Oregon Exchange Carrier Association(OECA) asking the Public Utility Commission to order IP Communications Service Provider, LocalDial Corp. to pay access rates and charges.
This case is similar to the currently open case in the State of Washington.
Look for VoIP to continue to be an action item at State PUCs over the coming weeks and months.
»192.246.69.231/jeff/personal/arc···171.html | |
WhyADuck
Premium
join:2003-03-05
| I read about that case. There is, in my mind, one possibly significant difference between LocalDial and companies like VoicePulse, Packet8, and Vonage, and that is that LocalDial requires the use of the PSTN to originate the call. In other words, the customer must have a phone line from a traditional phone company, and they then dial into LocalDial's switch, and then dial the number they want to call, and from there the call is transported via VoIP. So, as far as the customer is concerned, it's like any other "dial around" long distance carrier.
The reason that I think that companies like the "big three" mentioned above should not be regulated like traditional phone companies is because they are in many ways closer to cell phone service than traditional phone service. In other words, they involve a completely new way of originating calls that may or may not terminate on the PSTN. But LocalDial is a different animal - their calls ALWAYS originate from a PSTN phone (well, I suppose that you could access them from a cell phone, or maybe even a VoIP phone, but why would you?). This may seem like a fine distinction, but I suspect that to regulators it will be an important one.
This does show the difficulty, though, of trying to pigeonhole emerging new services into a regulatory scheme crafted back in the 1930's. Where do you draw the line, and say that on one side it's traditional telephony, and on the other side it's something new? In my mind, the companies that provide service over the Internet clearly fall into the "something new" category, but it's not quite so clear-cut with regard to a company like LocalDial, which depends on their customers having a traditional PSTN telephone line to originate calls. | |
clecrupt9
join:2002-01-22
GA
| reply to jeffpulver
Local dial is just like every calling card out there. If local dial goes, they should all and were talking hundreds of companies, some quite big such as IDT, AT&T, and Sprint.
Also what about the reverse of what Local Dial does; that is if Bellsouth were to route a call into Oregon and hands it off to be completed by a VOIP gateway, it is the same thing as local dial but instead of originating youre now terminating. Most gateways will do both. Do you regulate origination, termination or both?
What about the carrier who owns the traditional phone line who is using VoIP to complete LD calls on that line? More clearly, what is the difference from Local dial or PacBell if Pac Bell uses a VoIP carrier or gateways to complete its own calls? | |
phoneman5711
Premium
join:2003-09-30
| reply to jeffpulver
From the articles regarding both Oregon and Washington, it seems that the claim is that LocalDial is not paying local access charges.
I do not understand how it is possible for LocalDial to avoid the payment of those charges. Calls come from the PSTN and presumably terminate on the PSTN. Doesn't every call that reaches the PSTN have to pay something to some entity?
How is LocalDial avoiding access charges? How are they "beating the system"?
By the way, I agree completely. LocalDial is effectively a long distance prepaid phone card, with local access numbers rather than 800 numbers. I do not even understand why they bother to mention VOIP, unless they feel that it has some marketing value. | |
clecrupt9
join:2002-01-22
GA
| Alright I will explain this and hopefully I can do this so most people understand how this works.
Lets say I have a computer here in Atlanta and you have one in NJ. I have a phone line and you have a phone line. Both of our lines are hooked up to our computers and we can make calls by using a software program installed. I can originate a call to you by using this program, you can call me by using this program. One of the neat feature of this program is that we can also call into each other's computer and have it dial for us. Maybe my family went crazy and decided to move up north:), so now my costs of calling have increased. I can however call up to your computer via the internet and have your computer dialout, over your loca line to a local number with absolutely no long distance charges.
The call from Atlanta to NJ is entirely data until your computer grabs the local line and completes the data call on the loca network. This is a simplified version, but this how billions of calls get routed all over the world.
Because your line has a local calling area and you pay for it as a consumer, we dont pay for access to the NJ network. In the real world you can replace the computer with a gateways such as the cisco AS 5300, and the one single analog phone line with a PRI. With that you have the ability to complete thousands of calls on the NJ network and I have the ability to complete thousands of calls on the Atlanta network, all with out a cent of access.
Calling cards enter this picture because what they have is a gateway with inbound phone numbers that can be called and then an IVR that asks for PIN numbers. With successful entry the gateway sends the caller dialtone and then the call is routed via IP to another gateway where the call is completed. So if I had a calling card the scenrio goes like this: I dial the access number, I get IVR, I enter PIN, I hear dialtone, I enter destination number, gateway read number and selects best route(like LCR), call is sent via IP to closest destination gateway, destination gateway accepts call and puts call on to local phone network. I avoid any access, interconnection, or LD charges for all my calls.
To me I dont think the fact that a person has to use a regular line to access a gateway warrants regulation, in fact much more VoIP is done this way than with Vonage or P8 combined.
If I recall correctly the bells tried to get ISP's to pay access charges and it was defeated.
[text was edited by author 2003-10-15 12:14:22] | |
garrettm
join:2002-05-23
Beaverton, OR
| As the ILEC's gasp for air, their flailing shows up as legal activity. Tough to give up $30/month from every household in America for doing nothing except providing dialtone(64kbps) through an old twisted pair of copper that has been depreciated for greater than 20yrs. Their only recourse is government support and legal fights. The sales on their flagship product are declining at a rate of almost 10% per year. Welcome to the world of high tech Ma Bell. | |
PhoneBoy
I Am
join:2002-01-02
Gig Harbor, WA
| reply to jeffpulver
At least in the context of the Minnesota ruling, it sounds like what LocalDial is doing is wrong. To the end user, LocalDial is no different from any other long distance carrier. The customer uses the same POTS equipment and POTS line they normally use and dial POTS numbers. It doesn't matter that it takes a VoIP detour along the way. It looks and acts like normal long distance service to the end user. It is, by legal definition, a telephony service, and thus it falls under existing regulations and LocalDial should be paying whatever fees they need to.
Of course, what we really need to do is educate our policymakers that there's a difference between what LocalDial is doing and what Vonage, et. al. are doing, i.e providing an *information* service (under the legal definition, of course).
-- PhoneBoy
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The views expressed herein are not necessarily those of anyone else, including the poster. | |
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