kozam8
join:2001-03-14
Olney, MD
| A telephone is a telephone
I disagree...and agree.
In what way is Vonage an "information" provider? What is the content that they provide?
Vonage has succeeded by using buzzwords like "packet data" and Internet to make their product seem different, but in reality, this is just a different technology to make a telephone call.
My cell phone sends out digitized data over a wireless network. In the end, however, it's really a telephone.
I AGREE that regulating VOIP is a bad idea. The only way I see to achieve a level playing field for all telephone providers, while not stifling technology, is to get government regulators out of the telecommunications - information - data business. |
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oliphant5
Got Identity?
Premium
join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA
| The content is VoIP...if your cell phones digital data was sent via the internet then I would say it's not a "telephone". But since cellular runs over a closed network, it's not the same.
VoIP is merely content delivered via the internet...just because of the appliance it can be used with doesn't mean it can or should be regulated. Streaming media can be delivered ultimately to a television...therefore should streaming media be regulated like CATV, SAT and off air programmers are? Of course not.
The ONLY concern of these politicians is that they're losing a source of tax revenue and they are all whores of the telcos who line their pockets with campaign contributions. It has nothing to do with 911 or anything else having to do with the actual service...it have everything to do with telcos killing competition off and politicians looking for more of our money to waste.
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-- Munis Killed the Telco Star -- Powered by Barry McKockenner Racing in association with Jack Mikkokov Motorsports |
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Zorglub
join:2000-11-18
Fremont, CA
| To me, it should be substance over form. No matter how you slice it, Vonage is providing a phone service, and should be regulated as a regular phone provider. Just because your voice is going out as data packets, it does not change the fact that you're using their service to make phone calls. |
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oliphant5
Got Identity?
Premium
join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA
| Yeah, like no matter how you slice and apple it's an orange? What, so walkie talkies are now cellular? VoIP is VoIP, not telco service. Both being fruit, doesn't make them the same.
Using VoIP to communicate doesn't subject the CONTENT provider to regulation no more than email being a substitute for U.S. Mail does or regulating HBO because off-air networks are regulated.
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-- Munis Killed the Telco Star -- Powered by Barry McKockenner Racing in association with Jack Mikkokov Motorsports
[text was edited by author 2003-10-16 19:58:34] |
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boogie74
join:2001-06-19
Neenah, WI
clubs:
| reply to oliphant5
quote:
The content is VoIP...if your cell phones digital data was sent via the internet then I would say it's not a "telephone". But since cellular runs over a closed network, it's not the same.
So does this mean that anyone online can have conference access to phone conversations that go through Vonage? All phone conversations are transmitted one way or another via data switching and analog/digital/analog conversions. Vonage doesn't use it's own digital switching systems and they don't run an outside infrastructure. Beyond that, their calls are routed through the Bell infrastructure the same as landline calls and cellular calls.
Beyond that, if you want to say that since the conversations are carried over the internet it isn't a phone service, that means that since internet data traffic is carried over a phone network, it isn't a telecom service- and hence the Bells shouldn't have to offer lineshare capabilities. Afterall, DSL isn't really a phone service then, it's a data service that CAN be transmitted over phone lines if you use the right equipment.
Can't have it both ways.
quote:
VoIP is merely content delivered via the internet...just because of the appliance it can be used with doesn't mean it can or should be regulated. Streaming media can be delivered ultimately to a television...therefore should streaming media be regulated like CATV, SAT and off air programmers are? Of course not.
It isn't an issue of the fact that Vonage can be used for phone calls... It's literally designed and marketed to do so. Vonage is advertised as "The Broadband Phone Company" NOT "The streaming internet content provider that could be used for really crappy phone-like conversations"
quote:
The ONLY concern of these politicians is that they're losing a source of tax revenue and they are all whores of the telcos who line their pockets with campaign contributions. It has nothing to do with 911 or anything else having to do with the actual service...it have everything to do with telcos killing competition off and politicians looking for more of our money to waste.
No, it's actually saying that companies can't walk, sound, look and act like a duck and suddenly claim to be a goose if it's during duck hunting season.
Boogie |
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Sprinter99
join:2003-10-10
Grants Pass, OR | once again, refer to the summary and I think you'll find all your arguments satisfactorily debunked. |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to Zorglub
Hmmmm, would that be the same with programs like Netmeeting, CUSeeMe, etc?
Think about it, you "dial" an IP of another system, you use data, "voice" and even video to "talk" to the other person, and to end the "call", you "hang-up."
Better regulate those programs since they make take money away from the telcos now.  |
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oliphant5
Got Identity?
Premium
join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA
| reply to boogie74
said by boogie74  :
quote:
The content is VoIP...if your cell phones digital data was sent via the internet then I would say it's not a "telephone". But since cellular runs over a closed network, it's not the same.
So does this mean that anyone online can have conference access to phone conversations that go through Vonage?
No, just like no one intercepts your email or online banking.
quote:
Beyond that, if you want to say that since the conversations are carried over the internet it isn't a phone service, that means that since internet data traffic is carried over a phone network, it isn't a telecom service- and hence the Bells shouldn't have to offer lineshare capabilities.
Again shill...you fail to bother reading the thread. It's the INFRASTRUCTURE that's regulated, not the CONTENT.
quote:
Can't have it both ways.
Only the telco shills would argue that infrastructure and content are the same thing.
quote:
It isn't an issue of the fact that Vonage can be used for phone calls... It's literally designed and marketed to do so. Vonage is advertised as "The Broadband Phone Company" NOT "The streaming internet content provider that could be used for really crappy phone-like conversations"
You can call satellite service the wireless cable company, doesn't make satellite service a cable company.
quote:
No, it's actually saying that companies can't walk, sound, look and act like a duck and suddenly claim to be a goose if it's during duck hunting season.
Boogie
No, it's telcos looking to protect their stranglehold on consumers, offering them crappy service at high prices. Not that there is a viable alternative technology offered via the internet, they scrable to line politicians pocket books so that politicians the telco shills will do their bidding and protect their monopoly on residential communications.
VoIP is internet content, just like HBO is cable content. I know it bursts the bubbles of you telco shills to see your precious brainwashers going down in favor of better options for consumers but you'll just have to get over it.
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-- Munis Killed the Telco Star -- Powered by Barry McKockenner Racing in association with Jack Mikkokov Motorsports |
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boogie74
join:2001-06-19
Neenah, WI
clubs:
| quote:
No, it's telcos looking to protect their stranglehold on consumers, offering them crappy service at high prices. Not that there is a viable alternative technology offered via the internet, they scrable to line politicians pocket books so that politicians the telco shills will do their bidding and protect their monopoly on residential communications.
You've lost this argument already in 48 states AND Washington DC. There is undeniable and irreversable open competition for phone service. You may like to argue otherwise, but you've lost your fight to complain about the "stranglehold on consumers."
Find another reason to complain.
Boogie |
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oliphant5
Got Identity?
Premium
join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA
| said by boogie74 :
You've lost this argument already in 48 states AND Washington DC. There is undeniable and irreversable open competition for phone service. You may like to argue otherwise, but you've lost your fight to complain about the "stranglehold on consumers."
Find another reason to complain.
Boogie
quote:
Federal District Court Judge Michael Davis recently granted a permanent injunction against Minnesota's regulatory push. "State regulation would effectively decimate Congress's mandate that the Internet remain unfettered by regulation. The court therefore grants Vonage's request for injunctive relief,"
Sure shill, sure. It's the telco INFRASTRUCTURE that's open and subject to regulation Boog, not the content that runs over it. Find another anti-consumer telco position to support, you've lost this one (along with the rest).
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-- Munis Killed the Telco Star -- Powered by Barry McKockenner Racing in association with Jack Mikkokov Motorsports
[text was edited by author 2003-10-17 10:28:26] |
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Goober
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
 ·Comcast
·WOW Internet and C..
| reply to Zorglub
I think you're missing the point.
The ruling itself wasn't really law based, but rather public policy based. We want to foster the growth of the internet.
One day, taxes and the like will hit these internet businesses, but for now it doesn't make sense. Guaranteed that if the case were about supplying power over the internet, it would have been decided the same way. |
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