godsmack
join:2003-06-08 |  I don't have any trouble with this......
Until they start to use tax money for funding either the start up or to keep operations afloat......I really don't want my tax money used for it...who knows it may cause a tax increase locally?????????? |
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tazman69
Safety Guy
join:2000-12-22
Charles Town, WV | What are you talking about? This is all about municipal provided broadband. They normally sell bonds to fund the projects start-up and operating costs for the first few years. I'm not sure when your tax dollars would come into play. |
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mjcrocket
Mjc
join:2000-12-02
Abingdon, MD
| said by tazman69  :
I'm not sure when your tax dollars would come into play.
Tax Dollars come into play, because that is where the guarantee on the bonds comes from. The Municipal government guarantees that the principal & interest on the bonds will be paid; and the credit rating of the local government is used to get the good interest rate on the bonds. The value of these bonds is also counted against the total credit limit of the municipal government concerned. |
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godsmack
join:2003-06-08
|  reply to tazman69
At some point when they start to fail as a business.....they just might hit up the general funds (hence tax's). where I am for an example the county runs an amusement park called Playland in Rye NY......This park is not self sufficient they are in fact subsidized by county tax's. |
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ravital
Just Another Pesky Independent Nh Voter
Premium
join:2001-07-19
Merrimack, NH
| reply to mjcrocket
said by mjcrocket :
said by tazman69 :
I'm not sure when your tax dollars would come into play.
Tax Dollars come into play, because that is where the guarantee on the bonds comes from. The Municipal government guarantees that the principal & interest on the bonds will be paid; and the credit rating of the local government is used to get the good interest rate on the bonds. The value of these bonds is also counted against the total credit limit of the municipal government concerned.
That is only true with General Obligation bonds. Many municipal governments fund it with Revenue bonds, which cost absolutely not one penny in tax money. Not one red cent.
However, when the project is a success, it means the municipal government can direct money earned from the project to other purposes, like a property tax abatement or a reduction in other fees, which benefits everyone, whether they subscribe to the service or not.
So taxpayers lose nothing, and in many cases, benefit from something without having invested in it.
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"And if you call me brother now, forgive me if I inquire, just according to whose plan?" |
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hescominsoon
join:2003-02-18
Brunswick, MD | reply to godsmack
fortunatly most muni's are profitable and totally self-sufficient.
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God Blesshttp://www.faithwalk.org |
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godsmack
join:2003-06-08 | That is good news then !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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highjinx
join:2000-10-12
Alturas, CA
| reply to ravital
said by ravital :
said by mjcrocket :
said by tazman69 :
I'm not sure when your tax dollars would come into play.
Tax Dollars come into play, because that is where the guarantee on the bonds comes from. The Municipal government guarantees that the principal & interest on the bonds will be paid; and the credit rating of the local government is used to get the good interest rate on the bonds. The value of these bonds is also counted against the total credit limit of the municipal government concerned.
blah, blah, blah...However, when the project is a success, it means the municipal government can direct money earned from the project to other purposes, like a property tax abatement or a reduction in other fees, which benefits everyone, whether they subscribe to the service or not.
Nice spin. Not only will they not "re-direct" profits, you can be damn sure that eventually it will be a source adding to the coffers.
Way back when, when I lived up in Northern California, they told us that the 15 cent toll to cross the Bay Bridge would go away after 5 years....Today they charge $2.00 and there's 6 Billion in new bonds for the new bridge. What do you think the new toll will be?
On the surface, Muni-Networks have a grass-roots sort of appeal. I just don't think that muni's understand the continual costs and technological risks associated with building/running/maintaining a fiber network.
Until someone convinces me otherwise, I say let private investment build it.
HJ |
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ravital
Just Another Pesky Independent Nh Voter
Premium
join:2001-07-19
Merrimack, NH
| said by highjinx :
Until someone convinces me otherwise, I say let private investment build it.
HJ
Nice spin, but that is exactly what Revenue Bonds are, private investment. Private investors take all the risk. Really.
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"And if you call me brother now, forgive me if I inquire, just according to whose plan?" |
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lml2000
Whazzup
join:2000-08-17
Los Angeles, CA
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to ravital
said by ravital :
That is only true with General Obligation bonds. Many municipal governments fund it with Revenue bonds, which cost absolutely not one penny in tax money. Not one red cent.
Simply not true. There's no way to fund a municipally-owned broadband system from revenues that don't yet exist, & for which there is no history upon which to project a ramp-up in revenues to support debt issued.
Earlier comment was correct. Only way bond issue can be floated is by municipality or other agency such as a municipally-owned power utility to secure bond issue with revenues from other sources that presently exist & can be relied upon w/reasonable certainty over time to pay debt service until revenues from broadband project materialize. |
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ravital
Just Another Pesky Independent Nh Voter
Premium
join:2001-07-19
Merrimack, NH
| said by lml2000 :
Simply not true. There's no way to fund a municipally-owned broadband system from revenues that don't yet exist, & for which there is no history upon which to project a ramp-up in revenues to support debt issued.
Simply yes true, and I'm not going to waste my time here explaining what Revenue Bonds are and how they work. The fact is that they are issued by municipalities to private investors without the guarantee of tax revenues, as "General Obligation" or "GO" bonds would be. I'm not going to waste my time explaining that, when a simple google search will give you plenty of sources for better information. And I'm not going to waste my time attempting to convince anyone who refuses to be convinced, that these municipal networks always turn up the reveue they need to come up with, when more than 500 municipaliities have done it with great success. I'm not wasting my time pointing to facts that are well documented elsewhere. If you don't want to be presueaded, that's your business.
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"And if you call me brother now, forgive me if I inquire, just according to whose plan?" |
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