RoguePimp
join:2001-01-31
Phoenix, AZ
 ·Cox HSI
edit:
December 9th, @09:40AM
| You've got to be kidding me
They are joking right? Who does not have a complaint about BPL? There must be a way to work out the issues at hand. I refuse to believe that with the state of our technology we can't work on a way to avoid interference. I just don't but it that all of the problems can be so bad. After all, I get my High speed cable through the same line as my digital cable in the house and I do not get any interference. |
|
Qumahlin
Never Enough Time
Premium,MVM
join:2001-10-05
West Chester, PA
| said by RoguePimp  :
They are joking right? Who does not have a complaint about BPL? There must be a way to work out the issues at hand. I refuse to believe that with the state of our technology we can't work on a way to avoid interference. I just don't but it that all of the problems can be so bad. After all, I get my High speed cable through the same line as my digital cable in the house and I do not get any interference.
Cable and Electricity are two completely separate entities. It is very easy to separate one cable frequency from another and filter the frequencies etc..whereas electricity it is much more difficult
--
Forum Posts:3504 |
|
TACSPEED
Premium
join:2001-04-14
Tacoma, WA
·Advanced Stream
| reply to RoguePimp
quote:
hey are joking right? Who does not have a complaint about BPL? There must be a way to work out the issues at hand
It looks like they are working on the interference issue.
From ISOC
Electro-Magnetic Radiation Issues
Earlier PLC systems such as the one developed by Nor.Web in the UK emitted a high level of radio noise in the 1-30 MHz bandwidth. This resulted in conflicts with the British government's Radio Agency, when it disrupted radio signals from the BBC World Service. The Department of Trade and Industry (UK) subsequently made it impossible to use PLC in the UK and contributed to the withdrawal of Nor.Web from the business.
Learning from the failures of Nor.Web approach, second generation PLC technologies are using techniques like OFDM, which substantially reduce the potential of interference to radio users, thanks to a decrease in transmitted power spectral density. The OFDM modulation spreads the signal over a very wide bandwidth, thus reducing the amount on power injected at a single frequency. Field trials of PLC technologies carried out during the last 2 years in Europe (Spain, Italy, Germany), North America, South America (Chile, Brazil) and Asia (Singapore) have shown that interference with radio users is no longer a problem for PLC.
--
Fiber Optics is the future of high-speed internet access. Stop by the BBR Fiber Optic Forum. |
|
RoguePimp
join:2001-01-31
Phoenix, AZ | reply to Qumahlin
I agree it is much more difficult to filter the freq fof cable vs electricity but don't tell me we can't figure out a cheap and easy way to do it! I just refuse to believe that we can't figure out a way to do it effectively. |
|
hescominsoon
join:2003-02-18
Brunswick, MD | reply to Qumahlin
also cables are shileded to minimize interference..power lines are not and therefore will only increase the EMI and RFI they already geneerate
--
God Blesshttp://www.faithwalk.org |
|
n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
·Optimum Online
|  reply to TACSPEED
said by TACSPEED :
Learning from the failures of Nor.Web approach, second generation PLC technologies are using techniques like OFDM, which substantially reduce the potential of interference to radio users, thanks to a decrease in transmitted power spectral density. The OFDM modulation spreads the signal over a very wide bandwidth, thus reducing the amount on power injected at a single frequency. Field trials of PLC technologies carried out during the last 2 years in Europe (Spain, Italy, Germany), North America, South America (Chile, Brazil) and Asia (Singapore) have shown that interference with radio users is no longer a problem for PLC.
In other words, rather than pollute just a few frequencies, we spread the noise across the entire spectrum thus raising the noise floor for everyone. Forget it. So far the only BPL system that looks good is the 5GHz system. |
|
TheMadSwede
Premium
join:2001-01-30
Holland, MI
·Charter Pipeline
 ·AT&T Yahoo
| reply to RoguePimp
said by RoguePimp :
I agree it is much more difficult to filter the freq fof cable vs electricity but don't tell me we can't figure out a cheap and easy way to do it! I just refuse to believe that we can't figure out a way to do it effectively.
If there was a way to do it cheaply and easily without causing interference, don't you think it would be happening?
--
Hey - there's this thing called spell check... |
|
N0JCG
join:2003-07-18
Minneapolis, MN | reply to RoguePimp
It's not a technology problem; it's a physics problem. Energy in the 2 to 80 MHz frequency range, imposed on the power lines as they exist today will radiate; end of physics lesson. |
|
Transmaster
Onward Through The Fog
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
| reply to TACSPEED
said by TACSPEED :
All this does is raise the base noise level all across the spectrum. If you want a example listen to a shortwave broadcast in a city, then drive to the country and listen
again the difference in the over all noise is really surprising. So if you are on an FRS radio, or a cell phone this increase in the base noise level might mean the difference between being heard and not. This is really true for digital cell phones where you are either all there or not at all. It would be a hell of a note to not be able to get help in an emergency because a local LAN party was honking away on flaming Dragons of the outer wa-zoo over the area BPL system.
--
I love Irish Terriers, Low Brass, and the sound of a 1950 Johnson Viking 1 tranmitter on the air for the first time in 30 years. |
|
en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | reply to RoguePimp
TV cable is sheilded from interference, RG-6, is pretty decent. Tell me how many power lines are sheilded, with the exception of the segment from the pole to house. |
|
TACSPEED
Premium
join:2001-04-14
Tacoma, WA
·Advanced Stream
| reply to Transmaster
Does the emission level due to PLC using OFDM exceed FCC regulations?
Do FRS radios and cell phones raise the base noise level?
We wouldn't want breaker, breaker Bob's CB or the kids walkie talkies to interfere with that emergency call.
--
Fiber Optics is the future of high-speed internet access. Stop by the BBR Fiber Optic Forum. |
|
N0JCG
join:2003-07-18
Minneapolis, MN | The FCC part 15 emission level is only a guide. No unlicensed device can cause harmfull interference, regardless of emission level. |
|
qc832
join:2003-06-07
Scottsdale, AZ
| reply to RoguePimp
Actually I do get interference on my digital cable with my NHL Center Ice Package. If I am rendering video clips or using my graphics card to it's fullest potential with a game or something, it'll chop up my hockey games on the TV and the other discovery channels that are digital stations as well. It's kinda odd, it won't affect my DL speed when I watch a game, but when I play a game on the PC, it chops up the game feed, all pixelated and whatnot.
Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in.
--
MPRmedia.com |
|
roamer1
sticking it out at you
join:2001-03-24
Atlanta, GA
clubs:
 ·Voicepulse Connect
·Teliax VOIP
·Speed Factory
 ·Cingular Wireless
| reply to Qumahlin
said by Qumahlin :
Cable and Electricity are two completely separate entities. It is very easy to separate one cable frequency from another and filter the frequencies etc..whereas electricity it is much more difficult
Cable plants are specifically designed to avoid leakage of signal passing through the cables (there are even FCC signal leakage standards that all but the smallest cable systems must meet.) Telephony generally uses twisted pair cables, which help cancel out stray signals. How in the world can one stop signal leakage on open wire, short of lowering transmit power?
Also, given other statements here that BPL uses frequencies between 2 and 80 MHz, in addition to the concerns of hams, BPL systems could very well interfere with licensed users of frequencies in that spectrum (highway patrols, some rural fire/police departments, some utilities, etc. are in the 30-40 MHz range) and could face being shut down if a licensed user complains of interference. 
-SC
--
No-Bull SE US Wireless Info: »www.sewireless.info/
Atlanta Apt/Condo Cable & Broadband Info: »www.atlaptcable.info/ |
|
TACSPEED
Premium
join:2001-04-14
Tacoma, WA
·Advanced Stream
| reply to N0JCG
quote:
The FCC part 15 emission level is only a guide. No unlicensed device can cause harmfull interference, regardless of emission level.
There's obviously more to it. Since when I drive my car under a high voltage power line I get interference with my AM radio reception. Unless you are saying that power lines are licensed devices. In which case, interference caused by PLC is legally acceptable.
--
Fiber Optics is the future of high-speed internet access. Stop by the BBR Fiber Optic Forum. |
|
w2co
join:2003-07-16
Longmont, CO
| reply to qc832
This is because of time share multiplexing of the cable signal. When your pc's datarate to/from the internet increases it uses more of the available dutycycle on the incoming cable signal. They can only fit so much data on that cable per second, and when the internet connection demands more data, the TV data signal suffers. This would not happen if it were a fiber optic system as the bandwidth of that would far outperform cable. If it were BPL your TV would have lines and hash going through the picture constantly, even if you were not on the internet. |
|
N0JCG
join:2003-07-18
Minneapolis, MN | reply to TACSPEED
Actually, you could file a complaint with the utility and the FCC about the interference from the power line. |
|
91439306
15,000 Watts of Bass Power
join:2002-10-16
New Milford, CT | reply to RoguePimp
BPL is a bad idea.
It can be compared to converting an old VW beetle into a supersonic jet. It's just not designed for that, and the results could be equaly devastating. |
|
TACSPEED
Premium
join:2001-04-14
Tacoma, WA
·Advanced Stream
| reply to roamer1
quote:
also cables are shileded to minimize interference..power lines are not and therefore will only increase the EMI and RFI they already geneerate
Phone lines aren't shielded, and most likely generate interference too. The key is to keep the intensity of the RFI low enough as to not cause RFI problems with the majority of the people or to interfere in a frequency spectrum that's not occupied.
Also shielding is not perfect, fittings leak and critters chew on the cable. In other words, shielded cables leak RFI too.
--
Fiber Optics is the future of high-speed internet access. Stop by the BBR Fiber Optic Forum. |
|
snorpus
join:2000-10-02
Export, PA
| reply to en102
said by en102 :
... Tell me how many power lines are sheilded, with the exception of the segment from the pole to house.
Actually, the drop from the pole to the house isn't shielded either... it's just insulated so the customers don't get fried. |
|
