DSLrgmPremium,MVM
join:2002-08-22
Oak Park, MI | Debunking the Myth of SSID Hiding This paper explains what I have been talking about.
You can access it at:
»www.icsalabs.com/html/communitie···rs.shtml |
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 SentinelPremium
join:2001-02-07
Florida
kudos:1 | Apparently you have to be a member to see that article. Can you give me the basic gist of it please? |
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DSLrgmPremium,MVM
join:2002-08-22
Oak Park, MI | reply to DSLrgm
Registration is free. They don't track users. More to see if competitors are browsing for info....
You might be able to fool the AP some of the time, but the Station none of the time (SSID hidden in BEACON but not PROBE Response. SSID always in ASSOCIATEs and BEACON Requests).
If you try to fool the AP, you pay in performance (active scanning by Stations).
Or:
Not only can't you win for trying. You loose double. |
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 AnavSarcastic Llama? Naw, Just AcerbicPremium
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS
kudos:3
1 edit | said by DSLrgm:
They don't track users. More to see if competitors are browsing for info....
Man speak with spooned(sliver) tongue! 
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Ain't nuthin but the blues! "Albert Collins".
Leave your troubles at the door! "Pepe Peregil". Just Don't Wifi without WPA, "Yul Brenner" |
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 inmuckIdiot In The EastPremium,MVM
join:2003-01-29
Raleigh, NC | reply to DSLrgm
Microsoft also goes by the same way.
According to Microsoft, "Disabling SSID broadcasts on an access point is not considered a valid method for securing a wireless network."
Refer »support.microsoft.com/default.as···s;811427
for more details |
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 trparkyApple... YUMPremium,MVM
join:2000-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:2 | Are you saying that hiding the SSID is useless? It doesn't increase security?
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WedgeAntilles250 |
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Host:
Wireless Networking
All Things Unix
Cox HSI
Efficient
Southwest Chat
| He's been saying it for a long time, but keeps getting drowned out by the mindless marketing drones from both schlock and otherwise reputable companies who perpetuate the myth so that they have another check box in the feature column.
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Just because NetStumbler can't see it doesn't mean it's invisible. |
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| reply to trparky
said by trparky:
Are you saying that hiding the SSID is useless? It doesn't increase security?
If I may presume to answer for DSLrgm, the answer is yes.
Disabling SSID broadcast does no more to prevent wireless security breaches than taking your name off the door prevents burglary. It provides a modicum of obscurity, which is not security.
Your SSID still can be discovered with many readily available tools, and anyone who can crack your encryption (the only real security) would have such tools. |
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inmuckIdiot In The EastPremium,MVM
join:2003-01-29
Raleigh, NC | reply to DSLrgm
Yeah! In otherwords it's useless. There are lot of software available to find any SSID (even if it is hided)
It is also useless when you are using Windows Wireless Zero Configuration i.e built-in Wireless Utility on Windows XP |
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jdmtPremium
join:2002-05-06
Seattle, WA | reply to DSLrgm
SSID hiding is not "true security". Certainly it can obscure a wireless network from the casual war driver - why have a neon sign on top of your house advertising your network?
As the article details, there is a performance penalty, but for my small home network, the obscurity is worth the cost. |
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Host:
Wireless Networking
All Things Unix
Cox HSI
Efficient
Southwest Chat
| said by jdmt:
Certainly it can obscure a wireless network from the casual war driver ...
True only if you assume that NetStumbler is the exclusive tool used by casual war drivers (who are not, I think, who should be keeping you up at night). If you can burn a CD, you can see every SSID in your neighborhood.
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Just because NetStumbler can't see it doesn't mean it's invisible. |
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SentinelPremium
join:2001-02-07
Florida
kudos:1 | reply to DSLrgm
So let me see if I got this straight.
You are saying that...
1. Disabling SSID is useless because they can see you anyway.
2. It is a bad idea to do it because it is useless (does no good what so ever) and by disabling SSID you slow down your network.
If that is what you are saying then I have two questions.
RE: #1... How do they see you anyway if you are no longer broadcasting SSID? If they are driving down the street looking for SSID's then they will not see you. If they know you are there then yes they will employ more means to get in but if they don't know you are there and are just cruising by then how do they know you are there?
RE:#2... How much of a performance hit on a small home LAN of 2 or 3 PC's that are not even used at the same time often? |
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 bbarreraPremium,MVM
join:2000-10-23
Sacramento, CA
kudos:1 | Kismet is a passive scanner. NetStumbler is an active scanner. Passive scanners will discover networks and SSID even if the SSID is disabled.
Kismet will 'see' the wireless network even with SSID disabled. However, it won't discover the hidden SSID until a wireless client associates with the AP. There are tools to force a client to dissassociate, which will then cause it to associate, thereby exposing the SSID. |
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DSLrgmPremium,MVM
join:2002-08-22
Oak Park, MI | reply to Sentinel
said by Sentinel:
RE: #1... How do they see you anyway if you are no longer broadcasting SSID? If they are driving down the street looking for SSID's then they will not see you. If they know you are there then yes they will employ more means to get in but if they don't know you are there and are just cruising by then how do they know you are there?
Timing is everything. Someone driving by may only capture the BEACON. "There is an AP here". You can NOT turn BEACONs off. Things get REALLY broken when you do. Or there is a LOT to hard configure. But if they are near you for 1 minute and there is active traffic, they can pull out the SSID.
quote:
RE:#2... How much of a performance hit on a small home LAN of 2 or 3 PC's that are not even used at the same time often?
This is an RF issue. How often do your systems ASSOCIATE? Sometimes only at boot. Other times every few minutes.
I was just in a bank where they had an AP in the center of the building for the CFO, and it look like his complaint about every few minutes going off the wireless was an RF problem. The wireless is ONLY for this one person. There is no one else on the wireless, and it is far enough into the building that any signal outside will be weak at best.
You might have a great RF environment or a terrible one. And it can change very easily. For me it is great at my desk. OK in my NOC. Poor at the dining room table. |
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SentinelPremium
join:2001-02-07
Florida
kudos:1 | Thanks bbarrera and DSLrgm.
So my take on it would be that IF you are experiencing no performance problems or issues then it would not hurt to turn SSID off, although it will only help against the mildest of war drivers. However if you are experiencing problems turning off SSID should be the first step. And if you are inclined to turn off SSID don't be concerned about it.
Sound good? |
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DSLrgmPremium,MVM
join:2002-08-22
Oak Park, MI | said by Sentinel:
Thanks bbarrera and DSLrgm.
So my take on it would be that IF you are experiencing no performance problems or issues then it would not hurt to turn SSID off, although it will only help against the mildest of war drivers. However if you are experiencing problems turning off SSID should be the first step. And if you are inclined to turn off SSID don't be concerned about it.
Sound good?
I think you mean 'turning *ON* SSID should be the first step'.
You have to create an SSID for your network. DO NOT USE THE DEFAULT even if you turn it 'off'. Once you do that, why take the extra time to turn it off and hand config it in all your clients????
But if the work is already done (and your SSID is not 'My Home at 1234 Main St.''), then leave it alone for now. |
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SentinelPremium
join:2001-02-07
Florida
kudos:1 | Right  I mean turning off the "disable SSID broadcast" which is turning on the SSID broadcast. (whew, say that 5 times fast)
Yes, I changed my SSID and then entered it in all my clients and then turned it off and everything works fine and it is a random bunch of characters.
About the only problem I have is when my family members come over to visit and they try to use their laptops to get online Oh well... |
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| disabling ssid broadcast does enchanced security, but with netstumbler you can still get mac addresses....hence mac address spoofing, so like some of you have already said , turning this off is only against the inexperience wanna be hacker. |
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| i just read that "Debunking the Myth of SSID Hiding" i dont agree with it 100%, reason being im in Research & Development my self,which we have tested it, and i came to a conclusion and this is common sense if your signaling(beacon) you are saying im right here, just like a lighthouse(AP) for a boat when the captain(PC) cant see, it beacons so the captain(PC) can find it, but no matter if the captain(pc) can find it through a map(Static ip and static SSID) he is fine,if you can get this
the paper said something about performance, which i do find true in some AP, about 25% of them, linksys is the worst for it, netgear passed with flying colors, but different situations can change things like always,
not saying im right or wrong just my findings |
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| I lock my car when I go into the grocery store.
I disable SSID broadcast - when my AP is on - for the same reason |
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