pdog3
join:2001-03-10
Atchison, KS
1 edit |  VoIP and Home Security System
Anyone have a home security system that used a POTS to contact the security service provider (in the event of an emergency) and successfully converted it over to their VOIP service provider?
If so, how did you make this happen (connection wise)? If I disconnected my pots and hooked in my VoIP into my telephone jacks throughout the house, would this do the trick? Or is there more that needs to be done that a service tech. would need to get involved? I called my home security provider, and the tech. I talked to was not aware of how to do this, though I'm certain that someone out there has successfully tackled this problem.
Any guidance would be appreciated! |
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blohner
join:2002-06-26
Cortlandt Manor, NY
clubs:
 ·Vonage
 ·Optimum Online
| I have my security System connected to Vonage.
Here is what I needed to do
Disconnect POTS at the Demarc Point,
then rewire
ATA->Security System->House Wiring
before it was:
Demarc->Security System->House Wiring
Then I had to let my central monitoring guys dial into the system to reprogram the alarm number to 11 digits.
Did several test with them (as they where very interested in the whole subject too) and all went successful. Security system typically have 300 or 1200 baud modems so even on VoIP that should be fairly reliable...
I have UPS'es in place for the ATA and Router and Cable modem - otherwise you'll loose the ability to send an alarm the second your power goes out...
You cannot plug the ATA into a telephone jack and have it working - you need to wire the ATA into the house wiring at the same point that POTS used to be wired in... The home security provider should have no problem helping you with that if needed... (hopefully)
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I am addicted to speed --- OOL speed that is ---
~Help find a cure for cancer~Proud Member Team Discovery |
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dellsweig
Extreme Aerobatics
Premium,MVM
join:2003-12-10
Campbell Hall, NY | As long as the outside POTS line is disconnected at the network access point (outside box) your inside wiring is all wired in paralell - you can plyg your ATA in ANY wall jack and the entire system will be live |
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DracoFelis
Premium
join:2003-06-15
| said by dellsweig  :
As long as the outside POTS line is disconnected at the network access point (outside box) your inside wiring is all wired in paralell - you can plyg your ATA in ANY wall jack and the entire system will be live
That's true if (and only if) we are talking about a house without a "home security system". But the poster was asking how to use VoIP in a home with a security system installed!
There is an additional problem for those who have (monitored) security systems tied into their wiring. Most security system are designed to "grab the phone line" (from any active telephone users) when they need to. In order for this to work, you need the security system in-between your "phone line" and the house wiring. If you are using the "plug into any jack trick", this requirement is no longer met (and your security system will no longer work, even though your house phones will work).
So if you are converting your security system over to "VoIP" (a cable modem, perhaps?), you really do need to have the ATA plugged in at the same place your telco line used to come in. It also would be a "real good idea" to have battery backup of your ATA and all networking equipment (so your security system doesn't loose its "phone line" when the power goes out). If you don't do things this way (for example, if you use your "plug into any jack trick"), the phones in your house will work but you will have broken your home security system!
NOTE: If you don't have a security system, you can use the "any jack trick". You can also use the "any jack trick" if you still have a single POTS (normal telco) phone line for the security system to use, and you are just using VoIP as "a 2nd phone line" in your house. But you need to pay special attention to the wiring if/when you have a home security system that is also being converted (along with your home phones) to VoIP! |
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Kotis
join:2002-08-16
Plano, TX | So can the ATA be wired where the security system is connected? There is power, but I would have to connect my ATA wirelessly to my router... |
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pdog3
join:2001-03-10
Atchison, KS |  reply to DracoFelis
DracoFelis and Blohner,
Thanks for the fast followup and the thorough responses, fellas! This answers my question.
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Test99
Premium
join:2003-04-24
San Jose, CA
 ·DSL EXTREME
·InPhonex
| reply to pdog3
The reason a home security system can't be plugged into any phone jack is this: an intruder in your home might take the phone off the hook in an attempt to prevent the home security system from dialing out to report the breakin. To thwart this attempt, the security system must be in a position to sever the connection between the demarc (or the ATA) and all the phones on that line, thereby hanging up any call in progress. Once all phones are disconnected, the security system should be able to get dial tone to make its call, regardless of what the intruder tries to do with the phones.
Repeating in different words: the security system should never use a standard parallel connection to the phone line like any other telephone device. It should actually disconnect all other devices involuntarily before it tries to make a call. |
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jinjimbob
Troy Mcclure
join:2001-11-13 | reply to pdog3
It is very easy to disconnect a phone system from an alarm. The connections for the whole house are usually on the outside of a house, one snip is all that is needed.  |
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Test99
Premium
join:2003-04-24
San Jose, CA
·DSL EXTREME
·InPhonex
| said by jinjimbob :
It is very easy to disconnect a phone system from an alarm. The connections for the whole house are usually on the outside of a house, one snip is all that is needed.
That's a real vulnerability, and there are intruders who know about it. But do they know there could be VOIP on the TV cable? And would they know how to defeat a cell phone? |
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Wojski
join:2003-04-03
Chicago, IL
| reply to pdog3
Just curious, but does anyone know of a security / monitoring solution that actually relies on an internet connection rather than a phone line?
It seems as more and more people begin to have a always on connection to the internet that this would have been considered by one of the big players in the field. |
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ejrobinson
Premium
join:2003-05-16
Miami Beach, FL
·magicjack.com
| An internet based system would have to rely upon either the phone line, using dial-up or adsl, or cable. Cable, whatever its merits is less fail-safe because it relies upon the house's electricity line functioning and the cable company's, too. Since the phone company uses batteries, in case of an electricity outage it is more reliable. It is likely that the dslam in the central office is running off the electricity line and not batteries, so dial-up remains at this time the most reliable system.
-er |
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shavano
Even in America -- I long for America
join:2003-06-08
Dallas, TX
| said by ejrobinson :
It is likely that the dslam in the central office is running off the electricity line and not batteries
Actually that's not true. Virtually all network equipment in a central office runs off the -48v plant. I think it might be part of the NEBS requirements but I'm not sure.
I work(ed) for a company in the DSL industry and we have a lab with DSLAMs from Alcatel, Lucent, Nortel, Siemens, Cisco, CopperMountain and Nokia, and probably one or two I missed and don't recall -- they're all 48v.
There's a lot of voice equipment in there that also runs off the -48v plant. In fact the only equipment that is AC powered is some Enterprise-class Cisco equipment -- a couple of old Catalyst 8500's and one Cisco 7500.
Still doesn't keep a potential intruder from going snip with a pair of side cutters on the outside of your house. I've always told my wife the $30 monthly charge for monitoring was a waste of money -- all it does is generate the occasional false alarm police visit, it never would stop an intruder.
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Wesley Clark for President: All Patriot, No Act |
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craigsk
Premium
join:1999-12-22
Frederick, MD
| reply to ejrobinson
said by ejrobinson :
so dial-up remains at this time the most reliable system.
I was offered a cellular back-up option with our new home alarm system. Was about $400 and then an additional monthly fee. I did not do it, but it made since as a great back-up to someone cutting the outside cables. I think it would take an experienced crook to bring a cell phone jammer to a break-in. |
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ieee1394
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Washington
 ·TowerStream
| reply to shavano
said by shavano :
Virtually all network equipment in a central office runs off the -48v plant. I think it might be part of the NEBS requirements but I'm not sure.
This is a smart thing to do. Think about it this way: if you could design all of your equipment to work off of 48v DC then you could eliminate a whole bunch of stepdown transformers in your equipment. Why is this smart? Because transformers have to do something with the line voltage that they are stepping down in order to get you your 48v, 24, 12, 8, etc., and that creates resistance, which dissipates as heat. Less heat, less cooling needed, less...you get the idea. While heat isn't such a big deal in a small setup, with a few boxes of equipment, think about the setup behind the doors of CO. |
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shavano
Even in America -- I long for America
join:2003-06-08
Dallas, TX
| said by ieee1394 :
Less heat, less cooling needed, less...you get the idea.
What you say is correct, but think the reasons telcos use 48v systems has more to do with the mechanical switching equipment origins and with economies of scale for recitifiers and batteries than the heat produced by a multitude of small power supplies.
Ahhh, but I wander off topic.....sorry.
--
Wesley Clark for President: All Patriot, No Act |
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dschultznet
Premium
join:2003-04-24
Indianapolis, IN
|  reply to pdog3
Police sent when line is cut!
I do not have an alarm system at my house. But, I read about an offering from my local phone company and it stated that if someone cut the phone line the alarm would signal them and police would be sent! I then asked two other providers (alarm monitoring companies) and they said theirs worked the same way. The line is constantly polled and if the line is cut they will know!
If you use VoIP then, obviously, you would lose this feature.
Dan |
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shavano
Even in America -- I long for America
join:2003-06-08
Dallas, TX
| said by dschultznet :
...an offering from my local phone company and it stated that if someone cut the phone line the alarm would signal them...
If you use VoIP then, obviously, you would lose this feature.
I'm no alarm system expert, but I've been involved in telecom for longer than I like to acknowledge.
That capability is definitely available. ADT alarm systems for businesses have been doing it for decades. But I don't think it's possible on your normal switched telephone line; I believe it requires either a leased line between you and the monitoring company's facilities or else some special equipment added to your normal line. The latter would be similar to the way ADSL shares the same copper pair as your telephone.
But I could be wrong.....though you are correct, VoIP would mean giving up that capability if it actually used (and required) your regular phone line.
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Wesley Clark for President: All Patriot, No Act |
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ejrobinson
Premium
join:2003-05-16
Miami Beach, FL
·magicjack.com
| reply to craigsk
Re: VoIP and Home Security System
Ah yes, the cell phone. Of course, most people who have other phone service will switch off that cell phone at night, no? By the time you find the cell phone, turn it on, input your code, and it finds a tower your burglar will have tied you up, or worse.
-er |
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ejrobinson
Premium
join:2003-05-16
Miami Beach, FL
·magicjack.com
| reply to shavano
Good points, assuming the those ac powered cisco routers aren't where the feed from the dslam goes.
Anyway, our phone line is underground from a point outside which is over 300 feet away. A burglar would have to know where to cut the cable.
-er |
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johncgay
join:2003-12-30
Frisco, TX
| reply to DracoFelis
I have a related question.
I have successfully hooked up my security system to work through vonage. The "line seizure" doesn't work, however. I have modem/router/phone device/security system box all right near each other at the central juncture box (ie, very new house, all internally wired with everything accessible and together).
I unplugged the modular plug at the demarcation point, plugged in the phone device to the router and to an "input" jack in the main phone panel (same panel into which the outside phone line comes in). I bought a $10 device talked about on this forum that is supposed to allow for line seizure.
I left the wires in the RJ31X jack (alarm box) hooked up but put the wires on the $10 device "on top of" the inputs
(ie, I want to leave everything as close to its original state as possible so that if I ever sell the house, I just remove my piggy-back job and everything else is left in place).
Sorry for the convoluted message, but anyone have any ideas as to why line seizure isn't working? The alarm works fine otherwise.
Thanks in advance. |
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