Scott W
Premium
join:2003-08-09
Beaverton, OR
4 edits | reply to dellsweig
Re: Looking for the Common Thread in router problems
said by dellsweig  :
If there is a home security requirement - use MAC filtering - do't screw around with WPA...
Mac's are easily spoofed. And unencrypted data can still be intercepted, whether the interceptor is on your network or not. Yes, do use MAC filtering, but WITH, not in place of, encryption.
So far, I've had no problems using WPA on my WRT54G. I did have one computer that wanted to disconnect upon user logoff, but following the advice in the wrt54g disconnection thread about the "AuthMode" registry edit seems to have taken care of that. |
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cgray88
join:2004-03-16
Washington, DC
| reply to big greg
Excellent signal... always. Can't find any competing networks, and the AP is like 7 ft away. My connection to the AP never drops.
This prob happens daily. Net Connections box on my computer tells me I'm connected. Run around the corner to the Linksys, and I am listed in the clients table. Run back, ping 192.168.1.1... request timed out. Look back at the Net Connctions box, and it will say something like "sent : 302 / recieved : 0"
Then I do a long reset (pwr down AP then modem, wait, pwr up modem, wait, pwr up AP) and all of a sudden, I'm surfing again...
I'm completely perplexed... I've tried everything to fix it. |
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big greg
Premium,MVM,Ex-Mod 2005-6
join:2003-10-11
Boston, MA
clubs:  | reply to cgray88
I gave up and send my V4 to my girlfriend's apartment, where it has been running without errors for weeks.
Do you have good signal strength when your connection drops? |
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cgray88
join:2004-03-16
Washington, DC
| reply to dellsweig
Looks like the commentary has come to a halt in this thread. Is there anything to update???
I'm having nearly identical issues, with my BEFW11S4. Differences are that mine is the Version 2, as opposed to the Version 4, and that when I lose my internet, it only drops on the those connected wirelessly. The computers wired in continue to run smoothly. Mine also does not appear to drop at any particular time, per se... it seems to only drop when my computer shuts down/restarts, or goes to sleep. Otherwise, this thread is like 6 pages of exactly what I am going through... |
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dfsfo
@kpff-sf.com
| reply to Peterd
I, too, had the same lockup problems as mentioned here... been scratching my head for 3 months (the router is at mom's house, who rarely uses the net but has been instructed to reset the router power plug when internet not found...).
First problematic router was a BEFW11S4 v4. Locked up. Returned it after a few days to Fry's, got a new v4. Same thing. Scratched my head. I have set up five BEFW11S4's over the past 3 years; all are still running, and probably haven't even been rebooted (i realize now that is most likely because they aren't v4's!)
Back to the v4 in use now: It came loaded with the 1.45.7 firmware. I upgraded to 1.50. Still locked up.
I upgraded to 1.50.1, hoping that would solve the problem as it did for many... Still locked up.
A couple days ago I found this forum and read that one of you had downgraded to 1.45.3. I tried that last night and--voila!--the router is not locking up (at least not yet)!! THANK YOU!
Hopefully this router will stay useable for more than a few hours with this old firmware! When will the Linksys engineers fix this obvious problem?? |
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Peterd
@mchsi.com | reply to dellsweig
Get the new version firmware 1.5.1 and it solved my lockups for good! |
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ChrisDAT
Google Keyword Compsysnyc
join:2002-02-26
Hollis, NY
| reply to biker45
biker -- I'm sure LinkSys knows which ones were "born to be wild" and which ones have the "right stuff" inside -- I will almost guarantee you, the one you get will make all your dreams come true.
[...and what's wrong with believing in Santa?:)] |
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biker45
join:2003-10-18
Erie, CO
| reply to ChrisDAT
big greg: Linksys did not say which model they will be sending. However, the Warranty Return process specifically asked for what model I had, so my guess is that I'll be receiving a v4.
I am not optimistic that the new unit will be any more reliable, but I keep reading posts by people who say their BEFW11S4 v4 is rock solid (so along with believing is Santa Claus, I'm believing that Linksys will have fully tested the replacement unit they send me and it will be rock solid). Then, I wake up from my dream 
Chris DAT: I'd like to think that Linksys will take my old unit and fully test it, but see paragraph above about my also believing in Santa Claus!!
I read on one of the forums here that it may be less costly to Linksys to replace these devices with no questions asked, than to waste their staff's time trying to talk the customer through diagnostic and debugging procedures (especially if the problem is caused by a hardware flaw or software bug that no amount of configuration changes by the end user could fix). Staff costs are much more expensive than hardware, so Linksys may just be willing to replace every BEFW11S4 v4 with no questions asked. Of course, if the replacement hardware also fails, then it starts to get expensive for Linksys. Maybe they just figure that people with the flawed devices will just give up and go away (after all, once Linksys has made the sale, they really don't care if we go away, and going away is less expensive for them than if we keep calling their Tech Support).
Based on FedEx tracking number, ETA for my new device is Wed (in the midst of a snow storm here on the East Coast). Maybe I'll see it Thurs or Friday. Wonder if I should collect guesses as to how long it will take for the replacement unit to fail (who me, skeptical)? |
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ChrisDAT
Google Keyword Compsysnyc
join:2002-02-26
Hollis, NY
| reply to biker45
biker -- it may say something if LinkSys is so willing to replace the unit -- and actually, it's a good idea as it will give LinkSys an opportuninty to examine the unit (if they're smart) -- at least if they care anything at all about improving the "rep" that is spreading fast about LinkSys hardware. |
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big greg
Premium,MVM,Ex-Mod 2005-6
join:2003-10-11
Boston, MA
clubs:
| reply to biker45
Re: Looking for the Common Thread in router proble
biker45 are you getting a V3 or another V4? I seem to remember other people getting another V4 (the 12 volt version) but it did not solve their problems.
I couldn't make my V4 run here no matter what I did. Yesterday, I just took my V4/1.50 over to my girlfriend's place (cable modem, 1 wireless, 1 wired). I got her D-Link in return.
Maybe it will run just fine down there. I know the Dlink runs ok here but doesn't have the signal strength that the V4 had.
As soon as the V4 hangs, I'll let you know. |
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biker45
join:2003-10-18
Erie, CO
| reply to Moody_Blue
Re: Looking for the Common Thread in router problems
My BEFW11S4 v4 (1.50 firmware) continued to hang even after I disconnected its cable modem connection, and disabled the wireless feature (eliminating stray incoming packets from the WAN link and stray wireless connections as the source of the problem).
I had previously reported these problems to Linksys via email to their Tech Support (only response I ever got was: "we're working on it").
I finally decided to wait on their support line to speak to someone. After being on hold for an hour, I got connected. I figured the technician would first insist that I go through all of the same configuration changes (I previously performed over the past several months) in order to attempt to resolve the problem while on the phone.
After a brief explanation of the make, model, problem, and the changes I performed while trying to solve the problem, the technician just told me to go to the Support page on the Linksys site, and request a Warranty Return (I bought my BEFW11S4 in October and it is still under warranty). I probably could have gone straight to the Warranty Return page on the Linksys site without first having to wait an hour on hold for Tech Support.
The Warranty Return process was straight-forward. I had to provide a credit card number, but as long as I return the old device within 5 days of receiving the new one, my card will not be charged. Three day shipping of the new device to me is free. I have to pay to return the old device 
Of course, there's no guarantee that the new device will be any more reliable than my current one, but it's worth a try. I'll post here after I get the new device (delivery is scheduled for 1/29).
Has anyone returned their flawed BEFW11S4, and gotten a new one? If so, was the new one any better (in terms of reliability)? |
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Moody_Blue
join:2004-01-21
Portugal | reply to dellsweig
Being plagued with the 1.50.1 problem, I've decided to reinstall 1.45.3. Router is now working for at least 24h with "equivalent" parametrization. I keep my fingers crossed. |
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ChrisDAT
Google Keyword Compsysnyc
join:2002-02-26
Hollis, NY
| reply to dellsweig
What we probably need is for someone like Consumer Reports to "get" about 100 of the questionable LinkSys routers, put them in the same room [at "room temperature"], and just plug them into AC and each other and then "wire in" one PC, no internet, no wireless, no nothing. All this PC has to do is let out a broadcast every now and then -- to keep the network "alive."
I would not be surprised if "some" of the little blue devils succomb to this "torture test" before 12 hours. In a week there may be more casualties. After a month....?
You have at least been able to determine big-g, that there must be a hardware problem going on here... The cause may only be known to LinkSys... Maybe the units cannot overheat even once, maybe they cannot tolerate the wrong cable being inserted even once, maybe thay can be damaged by "samsonite" handling on their way to a retailer or to your home, maybe they have cheap flash RAM that "forgets" under certain conditions? -- one thing is certain, the unit you have is bad, and there is probably no flash-ware that can correct the issue. One sure sign is that operating on the switch logic alone appears to be able to crash the unit over time -- a thumbs down for LinkSys.
If you cannot RMA the box, pop the case, and look for stuff that may appear to be burned or melted inside, or soldered connections that may be loose or broken, or anything loose inside the case -- those are quality control issues and signs of internal trauma to the unit. If you decide to just buy another unit, there may be a real solid state electronics whiz that would perform an autopsy to see what is actually wrong with it.
Overall as network hardware goes, they can be considered disposable, since their price is almost equal to the price to ship them for service or replacement. Like I said before, this is the Cisco name goin down the tubes here, so I would expect to see changes [possibly evidenced by price increases] in the near future.
I guess one could say that the hardware is one "thread" that can be tested for and either determined or ruled out as an issue if you are willing to go to the same length as big greg -- I appreciate your effort. |
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big greg
Premium,MVM,Ex-Mod 2005-6
join:2003-10-11
Boston, MA
clubs:
| reply to ChrisDAT
Re: BEFW11S4 behind firewall/router...
said by ChrisDAT :
My BEFW11S4v4 w/FW1.50 is behind the router [BEFSR41], and has no wireless clients most of the time -- basically it acts like a switch and WAP, with one wired PC that's on 24/7. This PC has no problem communicating with the other PCs wired to the BEFSR41 or the internet through the BEFSR41. The BEFW11S4 also has an active DHCP to provide IP config info to the wireless clients. All other IPs are static.
OK I think we eliminated the internet connection as being the problem (cable, DSL, T1, behind router, not behind router, static IP, dynamic IP, PPPoE, and on and on).
I noticed my unit was crowded around a lot of other equipment that could be bothering this plastic-cased device.
I have one room that is wired ethernet, so I put the POSW11S4 in that room by itself. No source of RF or any other electronic device within 15 feet of it. Plus, it's cool... like 60 degrees in that spot.
It hung like a champ.
So it doesn't appear to be heat, or proximity to any RF emissions. And we now know that shutting off the wireless doesn't prevent a hang.
Is Linksys still RMAing V3 units for these V4s? |
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biker45
join:2003-10-18
Erie, CO
| reply to dellsweig
Re: Looking for the Common Thread in router problems
Here's the results of my latest test:
I disabled wireless on my BEFW11S4 v4 (firmware 1.50), and then disconnected the ethernet cable between the Linksys box and my cable modem.
The router hung (sometime between 11:33 pm last night and 9:50 am this morning).
So, both the wireless and WAN interfaces have been eliminated as the source of my problem.
To say that the BEFW11S4 v4 (and its firmware) are a POS would only be putting it too kindly.
To attempt to solve this problem, I have previously:
* set my MTU from 1500 to 1400.
* changed from DHCP to static IP addressing
* turned off logging
* made sure that UPnP is disabled
* did a "long" reset
* set the router on 35 mm film containers to improve air flow around it.
It does not appear to me that any amount of configuration tweaking can or will resolve this problem. It's just plain poor quality on Linksys' part.
I will (again) be contacting their tech support, this time to demand that they just give me my money back. I'll escalate to the CEO if necessary (Victor Tsao).
I'm curious if anyone else experiencing the hang problem on their BEFW11S4 v4 has tried disconnecting their cable modem or DSL and disabling wireless (to see if their problem also occurs with both the wireless and WAN interfaces down). |
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ChrisDAT
Google Keyword Compsysnyc
join:2002-02-26
Hollis, NY
| reply to biker45
BEFW11S4 behind firewall/router...
My BEFW11S4v4 w/FW1.50 is behind the router [BEFSR41], and has no wireless clients most of the time -- basically it acts like a switch and WAP, with one wired PC that's on 24/7. This PC has no problem communicating with the other PCs wired to the BEFSR41 or the internet through the BEFSR41. The BEFW11S4 also has an active DHCP to provide IP config info to the wireless clients. All other IPs are static.
I'm intereested in seeing what your setup turns up. |
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biker45
join:2003-10-18
Erie, CO
| reply to dellsweig
Re: Looking for the Common Thread in router problems
I disabled the wireless feature on my BEFW11S4 v4 (firmware 1.50), and as usual (sigh) it hung within 16 hours.
Like clockwork, my BEFW11S4 v4 has been hanging (randomly) once or twice per 24 hour period (thankfully, I don't have the problem mentioned in the "connection drops every 2 - 3 minutes" thread).
Since my router hung with wireless disabled, I think I can eliminate packets coming in through the wireless interface as a suspect (i.e., interference from my neighbor's wireless networks, either intentional or otherwise).
Next, I will disconnect the ethernet cable between my cable modem and BEFW11S4, and wait to see what happens.
If the router again hangs within 24 hours, then I think I can eliminate any incoming packets as the cause of the hang. Then, it may be time to throw the box down the stairs
I'll post results later.
Anyone else with a BEFW11S4 v4 (firmware 1.50) who would like to perform similar experiments? It would be interesting to see if others who are experiencing these random hangs have similar results. |
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ChrisDAT
Google Keyword Compsysnyc
join:2002-02-26
Hollis, NY
|  reply to biker45
Re: Wireless Drops...
You may want to examine this thread regarding wireless "drops" every 3-60 mins:
»[wireless] Connection drops every 2-3 minutes
it also includes a WinXP wireless "fix" that addresses a known problem. This may or may not influence the box getting hung up, but who knows? |
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biker45
join:2003-10-18
Erie, CO
| reply to dellsweig
Re: Looking for the Common Thread in router problems
big greg: Thanks for your efforts at trying to nail down this problem (random hangs).
I'm with you, I want to throw my linky down the stairs.
Here's a suggest test to eliminate wireless from the equation. What if we disabled wireless on the BEFW11S4 and waited to see if it hangs. If it does, then wouldn't that eliminate stray (or otherwise) wireless traffic from the list of usual suspects?
My guess is that even with wireless disabled, the BEFW11S4 will continue to hang.
Next test: remove the WAN link (cable modem in my case) then wait and see if the BEFW11S4 will hang (thus totally eliminating incoming packets from WAN as a cause of the problem). I'm not sure on how this test might turn out, but as long as I'm predicting, I'll guess that the linky will still hang (thus implying a serious and hard to find flaw in the firmware).
I'll give these two tests a try this weekend (and others may want to try the same, so we can compare results).
On a positive note, I just configured a Cisco Aironet 350 card on my laptop (static WEP) and it works fine with my BEFW11S4. However, there were two paramaters (fragmentation threshold and RTS) that needed to be changed (slightly) on my BEFW11S4. In the case of these two parameters, the max value that the Cisco Aironet 350 allowed was slightly lower than the value I had set in the BEFW11S4 (I had these values set to max allowed by BEFW11S4). So I reduced the values in my BEFW11S4 to match the max values allowed on the Aironet 350 card.
If anyone is interested, I can provide the details. I don't recall the exact numbers off the top of my head, but the reduction was about 10 or 20 (from values around 2000). These changes did not affect the reliability of my BEFW11S4 (it still hangs about once a day). My laptop with Aironet 350 card works fine (as long as the BEFW11S4 remains up). |
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big greg
Premium,MVM,Ex-Mod 2005-6
join:2003-10-11
Boston, MA
clubs:
| reply to ChrisDAT
Good news or bad news?
So here are the results of my testing. All I did was set a separate static address and put little Linky behind a NAT router here. There was other traffic on the network, but no traffic from the outside.
Initial results were inconclusive, as when I moved the wires I rotated it 45° which caused loss of signal.
After I moved it back to its old spot, I power cycled it and and 24 hours of runtime later it hung 4 times, 3 times today between 10 am and 3:30 pm (light usage by 3 laptops).
While there was other traffic from 3 other W2K systems on the NATted segment (NATted segment is on a switch, and one switch port was connected to the WAN port of the router), none of it was the sort of port probing garbage I find on the unwashed Internet.
I could set up a NAT router with *nothing* but the router on the wire, but I suspect it would make any difference. I could also turn on logging, but again I suspect it wouldn't make any difference.
This leads me to believe that the type of connection and the activity on the LAN port have little to do with the hangs.
I have discovered that there are 3 other 802.11b networks in the area (but none of them are on channel 11 with me).
I'm wondering if the hangs are related to the other wireless equipment in the area.
I'm also about to throw this thing down the stairs. |
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