 MordyComfortably NumbPremium,MVM,ExMod 2004-07
join:2001-12-02
Denver, CO | reply to nil
Re: Why not to use SPEWS Wonderful. More stupidity at the hands of the train wreck called SPEWS.
Short term, I would see if NAC can give you a non-corrupt IP address. What SPEWS wants you to do is beg NAC to throw who they believe to be spammers off their network, which I would not do. That is playing their game.
I agree with Steve and others; get Karl to publish this on page 1 news, and get the word out.
If I have ever seen an anti-spam site, it is BBR. This is the height of stupidity to block this site.
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Facts do not cease to exist because the are ignored - Aldous Huxley |
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 SteveI know your IP addressConsultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA
kudos:5 | said by Mordy:
Short term, I would see if NAC can give you a non-corrupt IP address.
Actually, it would be easier to just relay the mail through a non-listed server. Postfix makes it easy to do this, and Kasia knows exactly where to find such a mail server.
But it's no surprise - in the big picture of all the wierd people in the world - that any random person runs a list that has bogus listing requirements. Hell, I could run a bogus list. Why not?
The surprise is that people subscribe to the list, and the way to counter SPEWS is to
1) publicize how dumb SPEWS is
2) expose those who use it
Then the free market of public opinion can take it from there.
Steve
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Stephen J. Friedl * Security Consultant * Tustin, California USA * my web site |
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 TamaraBQuestion The Current ParadigmPremium
join:2000-11-08
Da Bronx
 ·Optimum Online
 ·Clearwire Wireless
| reply to Mordy
said by Mordy:
If I have ever seen an anti-spam site, it is BBR. This is the height of stupidity to block this site.
Spews does NOT block anyone. Especially not this site. In fact the netblock which this site sits on is not blocked by anyone using spews either. The listing which NIL quoted is a level [2] listing, no one blocks on spews level 2 listings, they block only on level [1] listings.
As far as being "anti-spam" is concerned, you are correct, BBR is anti-spam. The question is will it remain anti-spam when and if push comes to shove (if NAC refuses to deal with their spammers, and the listing goes to level [1])?
Will BBR continue to financially support a spam operation, or will they move on and financially support an ISP which does not support and harbor spammers? Will BBR vote anti-spam with their checkbook or not?
Captain Bob
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Motor Vessel - Tamara B. - 43' Long-Range Trawler Cape Elizebeth ME.»www.tamara-b.org
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 AmeritecTechChange we can believe in, 1922Premium
join:2002-09-06
Houston, TX
kudos:6 | Almost everyone here is well-aware of how SPEWS works and that it doesn't actually block anyone. SPEWS uses its influence cavalierly, frequently creating secondary victims, like BBR and Something Awful.
I note that you are Premium. Does this mean that you are also supporting a spam-friendly ISP?
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Independent thinkers tend to ALWAYS have someone not agreeing with them. It's the non-thinkers that always come in legions." -John Callari |
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TamaraBQuestion The Current ParadigmPremium
join:2000-11-08
Da Bronx Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·Clearwire Wireless
| said by AmeritecTech:
frequently creating secondary victims, like BBR and Something Awful.
We all know what "collateral damage" means don't we? It is unavoidable in a war (just ask Dubya), and anti-spam operations amount to a war.
That said, it is the "primary" victims which we should be more (primarily) concerned with. The thousands upon thousands of innocent victims who are inundated with porn, viruses, trojans, and lost bandwidth, not to mention the BILLIONS of dollars lost each year due to the spam/uce plague.
The number of secondary victims pales greatly in number compared to the primary victims!
said by AmeritecTech:
I note that you are Premium. Does this mean that you are also supporting a spam-friendly ISP?
Absolutely NOT! I support one of the Internet's best sources of information on a very wide range of subjects. BBR is one of the finest discussion systems on the NET, it is NOT however an ISP! It is also NOT spam-friendly, where did you get that Idea?
You wouldn't be trying to mis-represent what I said in my post would you?
Captain Bob
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Motor Vessel - Tamara B. - 43' Long-Range Trawler Cape Elizebeth ME.»www.tamara-b.org
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AmeritecTechChange we can believe in, 1922Premium
join:2002-09-06
Houston, TX
kudos:6 | said by TamaraB:
Absolutely NOT! I support one of the Internet's best sources of information on a very wide range of subjects. BBR is one of the finest discussion systems on the NET, it is NOT however an ISP! It is also NOT spam-friendly, where did you get that Idea?
You wouldn't be trying to mis-represent what I said in my post would you?
What money do you think BBR uses to pay its hosting costs?
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Independent thinkers tend to ALWAYS have someone not agreeing with them. It's the non-thinkers that always come in legions." -John Callari |
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 RhobitePremium
join:2002-02-24
Cambridge, MA | reply to TamaraB
Tamara, I agree 100%. It's interesting that the discussion here has focused on the evils of SPEWS, with little discussion of NAC's failure to deal with its spam problem. Not to mention, zero suggestions about how else to punish people who sell fake drugs and send porn to kids. |
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AmeritecTechChange we can believe in, 1922Premium
join:2002-09-06
Houston, TX
kudos:6 | SPEWS has the right to do what it does, and others have the right to voice their discontent. Others can then decide whether they think the claims of overbearing policies are justified.
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Independent thinkers tend to ALWAYS have someone not agreeing with them. It's the non-thinkers that always come in legions." -John Callari |
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TamaraBQuestion The Current ParadigmPremium
join:2000-11-08
Da Bronx Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·Clearwire Wireless
| reply to AmeritecTech
said by AmeritecTech:
What money do you think BBR uses to pay its hosting costs?
I am responsible for who I support. I support BBR, which is NOT spam friendly.
BBR is responsible for who they support! That is entirely their business! And BBR will have to deal with whatever consequences arise or don't arise as a result of their decissions.
Captain Bob
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Motor Vessel - Tamara B. - 43' Long-Range Trawler Cape Elizebeth ME.»www.tamara-b.org
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 nilJava Geek
join:2000-11-27
kudos:1 | Funny, that's what I've been saying about Nac. |
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TamaraBQuestion The Current ParadigmPremium
join:2000-11-08
Da Bronx Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·Clearwire Wireless
| reply to Rhobite
said by Rhobite:
It's interesting that the discussion here has focused on the evils of SPEWS, with little discussion of NAC's failure to deal with its spam problem. Not to mention, zero suggestions about how else to punish people who sell fake drugs and send porn to kids.
It's called being safe comfortable, and lazy. People don't want to be bothered with having to do any work, they don't want to suffer any discomfort, risk, or inconvience, they just want the problem to go away all by itself, without any cost, without any discomfort, and without any risk.
I wonder... would this thread even have started if BBR did not appear on a level [2] listing? Now spews is an inconvience to Nil, so therefor spews is now evil. Spews was not evil last week. Why? Because there was no inconvience caused by a very effective BL last week. Why isn't NAC deemed evil? You see?
That's childish, and one of the reasons we are in the state we are currently in i'm afraid!
Captain Bob
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Motor Vessel - Tamara B. - 43' Long-Range Trawler Cape Elizebeth ME.»www.tamara-b.org
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nilJava Geek
join:2000-11-27
kudos:1 Host:
Webmasters and Dev..
Forum Feature Requ..
| Give me some credit, I've ranted about draconian tactics of some blacklist for a long time now and I never agreed with this as a right way to fight spam.
On the other hand, I have actively acted against spam for years.. so you're saying my opinion on this doesn't count because it's against spews? It's not just an inconvenience for me and dslreports.. it affects Internet as a whole and helps anti-spam activists to be discounted as extremists in midst of a witch hunt.
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Life is too short to be boring |
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TamaraBQuestion The Current ParadigmPremium
join:2000-11-08
Da Bronx Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·Clearwire Wireless
| reply to nil
said by nil:
Funny, that's what I've been saying about Nac.
You mean you see no difference between the two??
BBR does NOT support hackers, porners, and spammers by providing them space to operate on this Board! By contrast, NAC provides ip-space to the same, and they make money off of them. Does BBR make money from illegal and immoral users? No!
The difference is stark, I am surprised you can't see the difference.
Captain Bob
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Motor Vessel - Tamara B. - 43' Long-Range Trawler Cape Elizebeth ME.»www.tamara-b.org
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nilJava Geek
join:2000-11-27
kudos:1
1 edit | Forget it, I've had enough playing ping-pong for the day. |
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TamaraBQuestion The Current ParadigmPremium
join:2000-11-08
Da Bronx Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·Clearwire Wireless
| reply to nil
said by nil:
Give me some credit, I've ranted about draconian tactics of some blacklist for a long time now and I never agreed with this as a right way to fight spam.
Every "blacklist" is very well defined in terms of who they list and how. Every one of them, has a website, and their operations are clearly defined. Have you seen csma.biz for instance? A list of ANY spammer ip-range who have EVER sent them even one spam. Each sysadmin has the responsibility to use or not to use any list as they see fit.
For some applications a "draconian" blacklist is quite appropriate, for others it's not. Ranting against a "list" is not entirely appropriate, rant instead against it's particular use perhaps, but not the list itself. After all, it's only information, no one is forced to use a particular list.
Captain Bob
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Motor Vessel - Tamara B. - 43' Long-Range Trawler Cape Elizebeth ME.»www.tamara-b.org
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AmeritecTechChange we can believe in, 1922Premium
join:2002-09-06
Houston, TX
kudos:6 | said by TamaraB:
For some applications a "draconian" blacklist is quite appropriate, for others it's not. Ranting against a "list" is not entirely appropriate, rant instead against it's particular use perhaps, but not the list itself. After all, it's only information, no one is forced to use a particular list.
Likewise, no one is forced to listen to a particular rant. Yet you continue to chastise nil's rant.
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Independent thinkers tend to ALWAYS have someone not agreeing with them. It's the non-thinkers that always come in legions." -John Callari |
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nilJava Geek
join:2000-11-27
kudos:1 Host:
Webmasters and Dev..
Forum Feature Requ..
| A rather whiny and tired nil by now 
Anyway, it seems this discussion is just going in circles.. we each have our opinions and doesn't look like anyone will change theirs. Can we agree to disagree and move on?
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Life is too short to be boring |
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AmeritecTechChange we can believe in, 1922Premium
join:2002-09-06
Houston, TX
kudos:6 | Sounds good. |
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SteveI know your IP addressConsultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA
kudos:5 | reply to AmeritecTech
said by AmeritecTech:
Yet you continue to chastise nil's rant.
She's fun to chastise  |
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 Doctor FourMy other vehicle is a TARDISPremium
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX | reply to Mordy
I'd like to see the SPEWS lunacy involved here get
Slashdotted. In spite of the excessive traffic that would
be generated here at BBR, that kind of publicity would
do well to point out the damage that SPEWS causes to
innocent thrid parties that happen to be in the same
netblock as spammers. And at /., it would reach a good
target audience.
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"Kayura or Badamon, whichever you are, you should know that I will never give up this battle. By the will of the Ancient, I shall succeed!" - Shuten (Anubis) from the Ronin Warriors. |
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