jniamehr
Premium
join:2003-10-09
Roslyn, NY
 ·Verizon FIOS
1 edit | [Equipment] VOIP and Home Security: A How-To
I want to make a clear cut thank you to Blohner, who really really is an awesome guy. I was trying to figure out how to use Vonage and keep my security system in tact, so I saw his post in a previous thread about how he went about doing it, the guy even called me to walk me through the process!
I felt that his mini-guide was a bit confusing (thats why I asked him to call me) so I am writing this right now to define a few things in detail. I will also attach some images with captions to define what everything may look like and show my setup.
Most alarm systems bundled with a regular PSTN line have the following setup:
NID (Network Interface Device) found either inside your home or somewhere on the side of your home, it basically connects your carrier to you and then the rest of your home. The NID runs to your security system and then from your security system the line splits up to go to the rest of your phone jacks. Of course the reason for this is so when your alarm does go off, the system can disconnect your current call and make the call to the alarm company.
Many/most security systems use pulse tones, I know vonages motorola box works with pulse tones
Also make sure to contact your alarm company and have them set it to dial 1+area code+number. AND DO TESTING WITH THE ALARM COMPANY TO MAKE SURE ALL IS WELL
If you look at picture one you will see the NID and where the copper lines from the security system HAD been connected to.
If you look at picture two you will see the two wires that had been connected to the NID, what I did to connect the two wires to vonage is I took a standard RJ-11, cut one end off of it, and exposed the two middle wires and removed the protection (plastic casing) around the two wires by melting it off with a lighter (be careful its flammable), my RJ-11 was color coded so that made the process a lot easier. I then welded (using a lighter) the copper wires (the ones going to the security system and there is only two wires) and used a lighter to expose the copper wires (by melting the sorrounding plastic the ones connected to vonage) I forgot to mention the not cut off end was connected to my Motorola Vt. YOU CAN TWIST THE WIRES TOGETHER FOR TESTING PURPOSES DO NOT WELD THEM TOGETHER TILL YOU ARE SURE IT WORKS!
Picture three is my motorola box.
Picture four is my battery back up, I use optimum online and have my motorola box and cable modem connected to my battery backup, so I can have at least 4-5 hours (with my specific battery) of phone (If cable lasts that long).
If you have any more questions feel free to ask, I hope that this little rundown is of assistance to all. I also dont want to be held reponsible, this technology is new, and my idea is home made there are NO garuntees! |
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jniamehr
Premium
join:2003-10-09
Roslyn, NY | Forgot to mention that most alarms use pulse tones, so make sure you DTA, ATA, MTA or whatever supports pulse tones... |
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WhyADuck
Premium
join:2003-03-05
| reply to jniamehr
With all due respect, if you think melting things with a lighter will produce a good quality installation, I'd just say that I'd be doubtful about the integrity of the security system in your home. A lighter is not a tool to be used in making electrical connections (the only possible valid use is shrinking shrink-fit tubing, but you need to make a good electrical connection first). I would strongly suggest you at least enlist the aid of someone who knows how to use a soldering iron and electrical solder (NOT ACID CORE!!!!) if you insist on "melting" connections. Of course, it escapes me why you'd go through all that nonsense when you could just mount a standard jack and use the screw terminals.
I really think they ought to teach how to make proper electrical connections in high schools - there are so many people who think they know how to do it, and do things that scare the heck out of anyone who really understands how electrical connections are supposed to be make, and the possible consequences of an improperly made connection (circuit failure, line noise or even possibly FIRE!!!).
Also, there is NO SUCH THING as a "pulse tone." The equipment either puts out dial pulses or touch tones, and if it is decent equipment, that should be configurable (after all, if a $10 phone can have a pulse/tone switch, a $300 alarm system should have one also, or a configuration option that does the same thing). But if the alarm equipment only produces dial pulses, then you are probably out of luck as far as VoIP is concerned, because I don't think any of the current crop of VoIP adapters recognizes dial pulses. You could use a surplus Mitel Smart-1 dialer to convert dial pulses to tones, but that adds another piece of equipment and another possible point of failure into the loop. |
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jniamehr
Premium
join:2003-10-09
Roslyn, NY
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to jniamehr
Dude you need to relax... I used a torch lighter, and it works fine and dandy, come try break into my house to see if the alarm goes off and contacts the police... I apologize for calling them pulse tones, I mean dial pulses, and no the alarms only use dial pulses, I have checked with numerous sources including the installers, and manufacturers. MY MOTOROLA VT DOES RECOGNIZE DIAL PULSES, MY METHOD HAS BEEN TESTED AND DOES WORK, WHAT DONT YOU UNDERSTAND ABOUT THIS. |
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The Beer
I Love It When A Plan Comes Together
Premium
join:2001-07-24
Omaha, NE
clubs:
 ·ViaTalk
| reply to jniamehr
Option 2... (Assumes you have a unit like above)
Find the NIU, or DMARC whatever you want to call it.
Open the CUSTOMER SIDE of the box, not the TELCO SIDE
See a RJ11 connection in there (Looks just like a phone standard phone jack) unplug it. DON'T REMOVE ANY WIRES, DON'T CUT ANYTHING!!!
Go back in the house pick up a hard wired phone (Standard not externally powered by anything) and see if you have dial tone on the home wires, press a few keys see if you hear touch tones, if not your more than likely safe.
Go back outside and put a nice note in there for the phone company as to why they can not hook you back up, give them a phone number to call before doing anything (They should since you have disconnected the wire you own from what they own)
Now plug your Vonage/Packet8/whatever DTA into a phone outlet in the house and PRESTO you should have dial tone everywhere you had a phone plugged in before, including the alarm.
No welding, no lighter, no fuss.
If you live in an apartment or town home make sure it's your line you unplug, stuff like that.
MAKE SURE TO CHECK FOR ANY VOLTAGE ON THE LINES AS INDICATED ABOVE!!! |
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jniamehr
Premium
join:2003-10-09
Roslyn, NY | reply to jniamehr
Yes your method is true, if the alarm doesnt cut off the phone calls etc... this method allows it, and I am not sure if the alarm will get a dial tone if its working they way most alarm systems do |
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WhyADuck
Premium
join:2003-03-05
| reply to jniamehr
Well, you didn't say a torch lighter, you just said a lighter, and you didn't mention any use of solder, which is the only way to get a really good, secure connection using heat. However I can think of several ways that would seem better to me, such as using the communications connectors made by 3M (the little connectors with a red or yellow dot in the middle). What you have may work today, but the question is, will it still work a year or two from now? Wire surfaces corrode from moisture in the air over time, and I have seen bad connections not become a problem until one or two years later.
As for the VT recognizing dial pulses, that's news to me but it's good to know. I do know that the Sipura and Cisco adapters don't recognize dial pulses, and I believe that's also true of the 8x8 adapter. When you used the term "pulse tones" I sort of figured you might not know what you are talking about, but now it appears that was just an honest mistake.
All I'm really saying is that wire connections should be made properly, and the use of heat without the proper solder, properly applied (so you don't get what's called a "cold solder joint") almost guarantees problems down the road unless your connection is in a very low-moisture environment and is never disturbed by movement. I've even seen connections fail because a non-moistureproof connector was used and the connection unexpectedly got water on it (I say "unexpectedly" because it was in a location that should have been dry - who knew that there was a hidden, leaking sewer pipe just above?).
That's all I'm going to say about this - if you feel secure with what you have done, far be it from me to argue with you about it. But I would strongly discourage others from doing what you've done. Use proper connectors, use screw terminals, or if you must and you're experienced, a soldering iron and good radio-tv-electronic type solder (NOT ACID CORE!!! I emphasize that because there are always idiots that have acid core solder lying around from a plumbing project and think it's okay to use on electrical wires - it isn't!). A very small, pinpoint torch might work okay in lieu of the soldering iron (if you are very careful not to set anything else on fire), but only if the solder is of the proper type. The general problem with torches is that people tend to either underheat or overheat the joint (if the wire turns cherry red, it's overheated!), or in a tight spot they inadvertently catch some adjacent combustible materials on fire. |
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jniamehr
Premium
join:2003-10-09
Roslyn, NY | Can you please provide pictures and/or links to all the products you are reffering to, for myself and for others |
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WhyADuck
Premium
join:2003-03-05
2 edits | reply to jniamehr
I went searching out on the Internet and found a much better "how-to" on installing an alarm system, using an RJ31X jack (which is the correct way to do it). For VoIP, instead of connecting to the CO lines, you'd connect that side of the jack to the output of your VoIP box. So you'd typically have this:
[Alarm system]
^
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[VoIP adapter]--->[Standard phone jack]===>[RJ31X jack]===>[Other phone jacks]
=== permanent inside wiring
--- flexible connector cables with appropriate plugs
Here's the URL to the How-To:
»www.hometech.com/learn/rj31x.html
Here's a better diagram of the RJ31X jack itself:
»www.shout.net/~wildixon/telecom/···31x.html
If you want to buy one of these jacks, try an electrical supply house that also sells telephone equipment, or an alarm supply company, or do a Google search on "RJ31X".
One other thing, if you have DSL, take a look at this thread: »Filter needed for home security system? |
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jniamehr
Premium
join:2003-10-09
Roslyn, NY
·Verizon FIOS
1 edit | Yes Ive seen method, and most systems do have an RJ31X jack connected to them (so they can dial out) but the problem with this method for me, and maybe for many others, is alarms are located in very weird areas, as are NIDS sometimes but my alarm was located in the attic of my home and it would be a very bad situation to go and wire etc. up there...
But what about the 3m tool you were speaking of? |
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lestat99
join:2000-08-04
Piscataway, NJ
| reply to jniamehr
Here is another decent FAQ on RJ31X Connections
»www.bass-home.com/faq/rj31x.cfm
Instead of connecting the red and green to the lighting protector you would connect this to the FXS port on the ATA in the case of VoIP.
--
Info Network Security:»www.packetdefense.com |
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WhyADuck
Premium
join:2003-03-05
1 edit |  reply to jniamehr
Scotchlok™ UR2, UY2 and UB2A Connectors | 
3M E9Y Step Jaws Tool |
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jniamehr
Premium
join:2003-10-09
Roslyn, NY | How would these be used? |
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WhyADuck
Premium
join:2003-03-05
| Let me get this straight - you are publishing a How-to for others and you don't know what a Scotchlok™ connector is used for? That is scary.
Basically they are used for making wire splices in small-gauge communications wires without the need for heat or solder (there are other types of Scotchloks used for other types of wire, but I'm just talking about the communications connectors here). You don't need to strip the wires first, you just make sure they are pushed all the way into the connector and then crimp it. The most commonly-used varieties are filled with a moisture-repellent gel, so they can be used in some outdoor situations without the need to use electrical tape. They just make a really good connection quickly, without much muss or fuss. The only drawback is that if you don't get the wire shoved all the way in before crimping, the connection won't work (you learn to avoid doing that!).
Well, actually, there is one other drawback, and that is that you can only connect a maximum of three wires at once, using the connectors with the red buttons. I have often wished for a similar product that would let you connect from five to eight wires at once. I have yet to find a relatively inexpensive way to connect multiple runs of wire together at a common point, other than wire nuts (which aren't waterproof and don't work that well with small gauge wire), and of course the twist together and solder method (then you still have strip the wire first and tape the splice afterwards, or in some cases you can dip the splice into the open end of a cartridge of clear silicone and get a waterproof seal, if you are real careful to make sure the entire splice gets coated). I know that you can buy "structured wiring" panels nowadays, but that seems like overkill in some situations - I don't always want to spend 30 or 40 bucks to connect together the wires from five or six inside jacks inside a home. I know some guys would just "daisy chain" the red button 3M connectors, but that starts looking kind of sloppy after you've added the fourth or fifth wire. |
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Sniggs
Iggy is my Hero
Premium
join:2002-09-27
Tonasket, WA
| reply to jniamehr
I have a question, or 2 or 3...
A lot of areas (in the US) have City Ordinances that REQUIRE monitored alarm systems use (POTS) Copper lines in the event of a power failure or other disaster (where the only communications to/from the building can be made over POTS). Have you checked your local alarm company and local ordinances to make sure you're covered and compliant?
Does your homeowners insurance cover you if you switch from POTS to VOIP?
Also, if you're paying to have your security system monitored outside to protect your valuables, wouldn't it make better sense to shell out the additional $25 or so bucks a month for a more reliable connection?
...and how reliable (REALLY!) is your E911 service using VOIP?
I know I would feel safer when the local lunkhead at the cable company pulls a plug (wooopsie!) and it takes a week to dispatch repair to fix his goof(?).
Just my humble opinion...
--
1) Mind Mommy and Daddy. 2) Wash hands, face, neck and ears. 3) Comb hair. 4) Brush teeth. 5)Drink milk 6) Eat all your food. 7)Say your prayers. 8) Share your toys. 9)Put toys away. 10) hang up clothes. --- You're a Patches Pal! ---www.jppatches.com |
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jniamehr
Premium
join:2003-10-09
Roslyn, NY
·Verizon FIOS
| Well the alarm company does not mind so long as it works... We are good friends, I know the owner personally...
My homeowners insurance does not stipulate anything about the type of phone line I use...
I for one dont care about my valueables so long as my family is safe... Take all my shit so long as you dont touch my family. But thank God we live in a safe neighborhood, and the alarm is just a precaution. |
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WhyADuck
Premium
join:2003-03-05
1 edit | reply to Sniggs
"A lot of areas (in the US) have City Ordinances that REQUIRE monitored alarm systems"??? Where is that? I've never heard of even ONE such place, but then in my neck of the woods they have enough trouble just getting people to install smoke alarms! |
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blohner
join:2002-06-26
Cortlandt Manor, NY
clubs:
·Vonage
 ·Optimum Online
| said by WhyADuck  :
"A lot of areas (in the US) have City Ordinances that REQUIRE monitored alarm systems"??? Where is that? I've never heard of even ONE such place, but then in my neck of the woods they have enough trouble just getting people to install smoke alarms!
Actually one of such places is here... In most newer developments you are required by Town Code to have a monitored alarm System with multiple Fire/Smoke sensors throughout the house and heat sensors in the Garage, close to the Heating unit etc... This came about (I believe) after a house burned down and took a couple of others with it because of the heavily wooded area in which most newer developments are...
However - the code says nothing on how the monitoring must be done - doesn't stipulate usage of POTS or any backup systems etc...
--
I am addicted to speed --- OOL speed that is ---
~Help find a cure for cancer~Proud Member Team Discovery |
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WhyADuck
Premium
join:2003-03-05
| I just wonder if anyone has ever challenged that in court - it seems to me like an unreasonable restriction on the use of one's property. Of course, when you say "newer developments", you are probably talking about one of those places where you can't buy a house without agreeing to all sorts of covenant restrictions, and I'd go live in a tent in the woods before I'd buy a house in a place like that. I just don't understand the mindset of people who will agree to let others decide how they can use the property they've bought and paid for (zoning restrictions are bad enough, but covenant restrictions give the local busybodies a chance to harass you in entirely new ways - ask any amateur radio operator that's ever had to deal with them).
But then there are those people who decide to live in gated communities, which to me would be like living in a prison camp. Maybe I'm just one of those throwback that thinks that freedom is far more important than safety, and I'd much prefer to be shot dead by a robber than to live in some people's idea of the "ideal" community. Anyway, sorry about the rant, but the message I responded to would leave anyone from outside the U.S. with the idea that a monitored alarm system is a requirement in a significant number of places here, when in fact that's probably a rather rare requirement that might be imposed in areas where homes are a bit more expensive than the norm, or perhaps in situations such as the one you referred to where the likelihood of fire spreading from one dwelling to another is higher than usual. I cannot believe they could ever make such a requirement stick in most lower- to middle-class communities. |
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tbclark
join:2003-08-08
Durham, NC | reply to blohner
I am also dubious about a town requiring a homeowner to have a monitored alarm system. Could you post a reference to this ordinance? |
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